Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Good XC Dean, don't be too down, XC has a habit of making you feel like you're not as sharp or fit as you'd like. It will reap rewards on the smooth stuff when the sun comes back out!

    Seb, bad luck mate. We all have them and that 'this is a bad day' vibe is hard to shake on a muddy XC race because you know it's not going to get much easier. See what the doc says and ease back pal.

    Gutted to see the Wokingham race was cancelled, but those who tapered, just think how much easier training will be next week with fresh legs!

    I've run 17miles this week and have been shaking off the lurgy. Kept trying to run but they lasted 2 miles or so before my head was pounding so hard I felt dizzy! Today I finally feel ok so will do a easy recovery run! Can't believe how sensible I've been and rested! New year, new me!

     

  • image Oh dear, some bad times for a few of us on here. Hope form and injuries sort themselves out for all.

    Fair play to Phil. I didn't realise how far Deal is, but looks like a 120ish miler, 2hr 20 drive? Cripes man!

     

  • Right, I threw a 10k race in. Chichester.

    Can't pretend I was gagging for it, having pretty much only succeeded in half the 10k based sessions over the last 2months. Just to make me even less mentally up for it, there was some doubt about it going ahead due to the weather.

    Truth be told I wondered just how close I was going to get to the 34.43 I did last year, let alone the 34.30 at Eastleigh.

    Arrived with loads of time, and my word It was cold. Pretty blustery too, but didn't worry about that to be honest.

    Went for a warm up, and saw Harry, one of the originals from this thread! Seems I've got to a stage where I can't do a race within 80miles without seeing a running buddy these days.

    Not sure he'll post on here as he's well out of the habit, but he's looking well, even if he said he hasn't been running much. Has ditched the ultras due to sheer time they take training for, and also he's a family man these days, unlike some of us lonely bastard whose running is more important image

    Anyway, lined up, and tried not to laugh at the organisers leading a procession round the corner of a bunch of runners, behind a rope. Only to then realise there were about 100runners already at the start. Utterly pointless!

    The start massively caught me out, didn't hear any countdown, just a gun, and we were off, from about 4/5 rows back.

    First 1/2km inclines a fair bit, which is an interesting start on a  supposed fast course. Whole course Is a bit like that, 4 inclines in total, it's pretty much the field quality that makes this a fast course rather than then profile.

    I missed the 1st km, but clocked 6.53 on 2km. So just about on pb pace, when normally I'd have eaten a bit of a buffer. From there on, I was scuffling around the 3.33s, until a couple of 3.41s ate into things.

    At this point, I was getting irritated at a couple of clowns breathing like they were 2seconds off heart attacks. Incredible how hard it sounded they were working, but just slightly faster than me so what do I know!

    I suppose when you're off pb pace it's super hard to still put max effort in, and a horribly placed steepish rolling undulation came at 7ish km, just where you don't want one, and by then I was thinking sneaking into the 35s will do today.

    At 8km the little gang of runners that I probably shouldn't have been in upped the pace a bit, in preparation for the famed nicely down 10th km.

    After running a terrible line the rest of the course, I got a nice inside lane here, and ate a few positions, and cheesed off some gimp who thought he was a pirate wearing an orange bandana. Did some track style professional blocking off by accident, which drew a "f'cks sake" from him, so I felt a little guilty and let him back in, only to then monster him in the last 200m where he had nothing left.

    Some other guy was up for a ridiculous last 50metre sprint, and for the first time in ages I had enough to outsprint someone. Completely unnecessary, but was fun for the crowds.

    35.41, for my slowest 10k out of the last 5 (ignore the Wycombe 36:4x one, that's got a ridiculous hill). Same time as at the Southend 10k in November 2012, and that one I was saying was underpar back then!!

    In fairness, it was pretty windy, and definitely worse conditions than last year, but just shows you need to take pbs when you're in shape. As a lot of the time, you might not be!

    Have a niggling idea that I need a change of emphasis to drag the last bit of potential out now.  Otherwise that (admittedly beautifully neat) 34.30 10k might sit there forever...

    One more race in the close future and if that's a similar kind of vibe to today, then it's change of plan time methinks...

     

  • Do a marathon!  You know you want to!

    Stevie see wrote (see)

    Kept trying to run but they lasted 2 miles or so before my head was pounding so hard I felt dizzy! (...) Can't believe how sensible I've been! 

    Hmm. image

    So I did the same (but slower) 12 miles @ mp run as Phil, except by myself, on a 4-mile loop to try and break up some of the howling gale. It wasn't much fun. 

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    SS - I was down with the lurgy last week, You are right just to rest it out.

    I Must have written my report badly, I was happy with the race considering recent formimage

  • Not a bad effort SG, so what will the new direct/plan be? You going to double back and join the marathon boys? Even the slightest wind on a course can throw you out, plus weather has made training really hard so those confidence boosting sessions have been few and far between for most of us.

    Did a nice 7.5 round the course of the MT 10K I've entered. Really nice course to be honest!

  • I suspect the wind affected you more than you think (or want to use as an excuse!) SG. There's still a new 10k PB in you somewhere though - fear not!

    Finally dragged myself out for a run late afternoon. After a nice 7 xc in the mud yesterday in with just a little pain at the end, I wasn't too sure how far to go. Very comfortable for the first 5 miles, and found myself hitting sub 7 on a hilly route without really trying. Went a bit pear shaped after that though as far as the adductors were concerned, so cut it down to the minimum needed to maintain a 50 mpw average for the year, which was 8M covered at 6:56 pace, but needed a few stretch stops in the last 2 miles to get me through the pain.  A pitiful 24 total for the week! Good job Woky wasn't on today (for me)!

  • SS - is that the local one that you were pondering about then?

  • OK, so Wokingham off due to flooding but P&D carries on so no sensible option to reschedule so it was a 260 mile round trip with a couple of fellow Dashers to Deal (which is a bit beyond Dover towards Sandwich if you don't know where it is) to run a half there. I wasn't sure if I would or not but the fact that others were going was enough to swing the balance.

    Early start for a couple of cups of tea and a croissant and then about 2:15 in the car to get to the course. Registered and then jogged to the start and it became obvious that the wind was going to be a big factor as it was about 25 mph and just strong and steady at that speed. It was a bit odd, you are used to trees etc waving in the wind but it was so steady things were not waving, just bent.

    Just over a mile jog to warm up and it confirmed that running one way was considerably easier than the other. The course map showed a lollipop, so out uphill and into the wind for 3.5 miles, an elongated 6 mile loop to 9.5  miles and then back down the same 3.5 to the start.

    Looking at last year's results, my target time would be top 10 but there were a lot of people saying they had come over from Wokingham so wasn't sure how it would pan out. A quick hi from a guy on the RW forums who recognised me in my dashers top but I have to say I forgot his handle. Gun goes and 1, 2 and 3 are off and I settle down behind a group of 5 so I'm in 9th place.  Happy that a few guys in front of me are forming an echelon and I tuck in: the plan was to follow in shelter wherever possible. This plan soon fell to bits as the group broke up quickly and I had to tuck in behind a single runner. It soon became obvious that the wind was not the only issue as the course started to climb up a few hills pretty quickly.

    First 4 miles ended up OKish, by now I was on my own and did these 4 miles at an average of 6:25 so happy to see MP was possible uphill and into the wind, but mile 5 was a horror: top of a hill and the wind was wicked and a 7:30 mile to throw everything backwards. The hills and wind started to take turns and it was very hard judging distances: the runner in front could appear very close and then he turned a corner and got a little tail wind and shoot away.

    At about 6 miles I started to pull towards the guy in front in a red Xempo top (sub 3 guy) and I slowly pulled him back up a kicker of a hill from 6 to 6.5 and halfway in 43.5 minutes. My target for Wokingham was 82 so half in 41, 2.5 minutes down. Caught up with him and he dropped me on a downhill but caught up again and exchanged a few words (turned out to be DanA from sub-3 thread) and was surprised to hear his target for Wokingham today was 76: 6 minutes faster than my target! I held on for a while but his long legs had me on the downhill sections.

    Now it was downhill and wind behind for some sections (but still cross winds and uphill bits for the fun of it) so miles 7 to 10 averaged 6:15. I struggled through miles 11 and 12 as there was quite a bit of uphill and I wasn't adjusting to the change of pace quick enough so almost stalled each time I had to go uphill.

    I started to hear the marshals clap after I had gone by so knew someone was close behind and at 12 the winner (already changed and jogged back to 12) said there was a runner closing in behind me. The upside was there was no unknown route so a downhill, short double back uphill and then downhill again. Mile 13 was 5:49 image and he stayed behind me. 5:39 pace for the bit at the end.

    So, just inside 1:25 and average pace was 6:28 so exactly MP. Couldn't do it again like that but tapered and on a flat course is a different beast.

    Won 2nd V40 so happy and my two other Dashers won 3rd lady and 1st V50 so content car full going home.

    <p
  • Hi folks. 

    I've been following this thread for a while now, it's excellent with plenty of knowledge getting shared around. I'm really just looking for some advice as to whether I'm being realistic here or not. I would like to run 75 minutes for a half. My present best is 79. 

    I've been running about 7 years but not high mileage. I ran my 79 mins last year at GNR off about 30 miles a week, no speed work and maybe one ten mile run a week. The rest is running back and forward to work up to about 6 miles. PB's are 79 min for half, 35 min for 10K and 17.20 for 5k. The most i've ran is probably 50 miles in a week but that was just before my 10k pb.

    I'm 40, about 5'8" and weigh about 9.5 stone. 

    My question is if I were to target a half say in September, build structure into my training, is my target achievable?

    Any advice/tips more than welcome image

    Thank you

  • Phil - that would be Mace from the Overdone It? thread who lives in that part of Kent.

  • Lit, spot on. Mace sounds right, I was trying to have it with an S as in Mason.

  • I used to live in Kent. I got better though.

    Bus, surely it's time to take a week off? Good reports PMJ and SG. Coasters did their own DIY HM. Some bimbled and some raced. I didn't go.

    Hi Geryi. The fast boys will be along soon to advise. When were your 5 & 10km PBs?

    Good going Dean, never mind Seb. Well done Johnas for keeping a lid on it.

  • Bus, yeah it is! Now I've had a similarly pooh week to you (20 odd miles), I'll probably leave Trafford, try to podium this local race and hit Wilmslow hard, which was always the main goal. 10K can wait till the GMR.

    6:52 for an easy run? Bus, no wonder your adductors are giving you grief. SLOW DOWN!! Ease the poor buggers in!

    Geryi - your times seem consistent over the distances (and very similar to mine). I can't answer the question about the 75min target, as I don't know enough about your training history. But if you've been generally hitting 30 miles a week I'd edge my bets there's a big chuck that could come off 79mins if your started working up to 50 miles a week. People on here go about things in slightly different ways, I like the Tues/Thurs session, sun long run, sat hills and Friday off structure to my weeks. What's your next race?  

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Well done on the XCs fellas. Glad you were happy with it Dean, though do I sense some relief that XC season is coming to an end?  Sorry to hear things weren't good for you Seb, you've been flying despite the lack of miles, guess it's just catching up to you.

    Nice day out for Phil, good news on hitting MP spot on especially in those conditions.  Excellent stuff on the trophy as well.

    SG, I have to say I suspected you might be at Chichester, particularly when I realised it was the same day as Wokingham and you were clear you wouldn't run that, but were vague on what you would be doing.  But speculation on your racing plans is banned now.  Seems you're suffering a bit of a dip at the moment, but you know after the amount of time you've been at it progress isn't linear. Sounds like one of those times when you know a PB is out of the question and things just slip even further away.

    So, whilst PMJ made a 4.5 hour round trip in order to keep to his training schedule, I couldn't even be arsed to get out of bed for my 20 with 12@ MP.  I promised myself I'd do it early evening instead.  However, a variety of problems in mounting my TV to the wall, including needing to make a trip across town to buy a replacement HDMI cable, meant I didn't have time.  So I ran 13.2 miles instead, at a pace that could very scientifically be described as 'brisk', i.e. MP + 5% (6:19 pace).  Went through the half marathon distance in just under 1:23, so that's OK I suppose, although what with the pointless taper this week the overall mileage is a meagre 54.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Geryi, welcome.  In answer to your question, 75 by September looks a stretch.  No doubt upping the mileage will see time coming off that Half PB, but I think if you've been running for 7 years, even at low mileage, the time may not fall off that quickly.  Certainly an achievable medium term target though.

  • Philip - good racing under pretty challenging conditions and a pretty decent VLM training session out of it!. Nice report to read too.

    Dachs - not necessarily a pointless taper, but more a cut back week to consolidate the big weeks before. Nice to see the hum drum crap of everyday life doesn't just get in my way too image

    Geryi - 79 off of 30M per week is impressive, and hints at a fair bit of natural talent. 75 by September is a big ask, but not impossible with the right plan and building up to 50+ miles per week I would suggest.

    Iron - I've tried the week off, but I think it might take more like three to clear it properly. Big decision to make to consciously take that amount of time off - I'd probably only last 3 days before the need to "test" it would overwhelm meimage

    Stevie - to be fair, that's my fastest "easy" pace for a long time and just kinda happened!

  • Geryi

    Of course if Samir can go from a real 80 to a virtual 75 in the stroke of a key, then it is possible.

    One real thing will be that that commute to and from work is good to add miles and tick over but in the grand scheme of things it is very non-specific.

    75 for a V40 is hard. As an indicator, in 2013 the V40 ranking show 77 men under 75 minutes and 233 under 79 minutes so only about a third of those who get under 79 get under 75.

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    geryi - as a fellow v40 it is possible to get sub 75. i went from 83 to 74 in the space of a yr, i did get a 76 after only 5 months but conditions and probably my capability on the day didnt allow for better that day. I then concentrated on 5ks so didnt run another half for about 6 months.  but i was new to the game and didnt train properly before.  but for me the speed work i did at the track was key.  you cant expect to do the same sort of training you have over 7 yrs to keep paying out.  its possible you have rung that sponge dry and need to bring in some new training.  tempos/intervals for example.

  • Enjoyed the race reports. As stated above, XC seems to make me feel unfit too! But sounds like it was good efforts on the ground.



    3m v v v easy yesterday (practically walking) was supposed to be a rest day but shit day at work = need for some space out the hotel! 6m this morning and a bit of time in the pool. Physio tonight for the knee so will see what they say bit atm I think my half on the 1st of March will probably get canned. Don't want to go into it not 100% race fit
  • Hi Gery, unless that 35min 10k was a 35.59 and was 10 years ago, it seems pretty obvious. Just slowly mget back up to that mileage but with some longer more half marathon specific stuff, and that 1hr 19 can only fall surely!

    Dachs, I tend to have a big time, and then scuffle around under it for a bit. Maybe the mentality isn't always the strongest, or maybe I've just seen my best days now!

    In fairness, I had a little look at the results compared to yesterday. One of the top 3, Jon Pepper came out about 35secs or so slower yesterday than 2013, so maybe if that's alright for a 30min 10k man, then 58 for my slower pace is ok.

    Also had a look at the pbs of the top 71 (came 71st last year, 67th this year).   30 last year, 15 this year. Must be something in that.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    SG - yep, and I can see at least one guy ahead of you who did PB who was due a big PB in any case, so that would have probably been a lot bigger without the wind.

    A 12 mile extended run to work at about 7:20 pace this morning (including full backpack) meant a total of 25 miles in the space of 15 hours at average sub 7 pace, so that's better than nothing I suppose.

  • Hi folks, thank you for all the replies. My 10k pb was the year after I started running however I get within seconds of the pb just by upping my mileage and being consistent. That's my biggest downfall is not sticking at it. 

    I think as i'm not getting any younger this year I'm going to give it a good crack. The half marathon pb came last year so I know I've still got something left.

    I'm going to slowly up my mileage to 50 and see what it brings. My next race is a half at the end of April.

     

     

  • Bone bruising on the knee. Issue is that it's still swollen 2wks on. Physio concerned that if that + pain doesn't go away soon it'll be chronic, and although it's not serious now it could be. So had needles in my knee, big toe & calf (feel like I've been shot!), strapping on the knee, and no running for a week.

    trying to stay positive... It's only a week and having not had 2 consecutive days off since Paris last April, hoping the rest will do me good.

    now off to research swimming plans! image 

  • That's not good Nikki. Make sure you do exactly what the physio tells you and don't be tempted to try it for the week (I know, that'You certainly won't lose any fitness in just a week, and, as you say, it will almost certainly do you some good! Did the physio recommend icing too to get the swelling down?

     

  • Quiet on here today?

    Quick lunchtime 5.2M for me today. Wasn't sure whether to do it or rest, but got itchy feet! Glad I did, as it came out all right with only a slight niggle at the very end. Made it a bit of a sort of pyramid progression (influenced by a big hill and strong winds in mile 4!): 7:39, 6:37, 5:56, 6:27, 7:00 and a bit. 

    5-6 miles seems to be the max I can do before the adductors start to protest, so will stick with no more than that in any one go for a bit. What is good though is that sub 7s seem to be coming pretty easy currently, much more so than a few weeks ago, so if I can manage the adductor issue out everything else is going OK!

  • Wow Nikki, that's some injury. Do what Bus says and rest up properly. Swimming is the work of the devil.

    Bus, here is some advice for you adductors:

    The Bus wrote (see)

    [Rest up and] and don't be tempted to try it for the week (I know, that'You certainly won't lose any fitness in just a week, and, as you say, it will almost certainly do you some good!

     

    image Do you get the same problem on double days, i.e. is it every time you go over 5-6mi or is it a daily thing?

  • image

    As I say Iron - itchy feet image. Only when it's a proper injury that hurts all the time when running or gets worse with running would I contemplate such a drastic course of action (and yes, I know that is probably not sensible image)

    In the interests of testing your hypothesis I have just returned from the second run of the day. 5M very easy, just a touch of discomfort in the last half mile. Ergo, it is proven that it is doing longer runs in one go that causes the main problem, whereas a bit of rest, a few stretches and some icing seems to allow a second run. 

    In the interests of balance though, it is not a plan entirely without merit. For many of the injuries of this type I've had which are chronic but at a relatively low level, but not completely debilitating, physios have advised that running can be better than not running for stimulating healing. The problem comes with a tendency to push it too far!

  • At least you're stopping when it's hurting Bus!



    Day 1 of 'Nikki becomes a swimmer today'. 600m warm up.. Then 6x200m off 60sec rest. Then 3x3min Aqua jogging. If that means anything to anyone. It doesn't to me! Not the same as reporting track Tuesdays session image



    Frustratingly enough, knee feels fine today!
  • Nikki G wrote (see)

    Frustratingly enough, knee feels fine today!

    No no this is great news! Another week of it feeling fine and you can be back running.

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