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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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The whole 2 month build up and then that experience certainly leaves me all over the place mentally though. Need to hit back with something re-assuring soon.
Dont beat yourself up too much SG none of us are robots (or pro athletes)so a small % off can ruin a race, esp over longer distances. You seem to put yourself under a lot of pressure to hit paces etc in training, which must take a lot of mental energy, let alone race day mental energy. The best you can be on a given day is still the aim, hoping for more good days than bad. Gosport next ?
Will slip back in with a bit of XC i think. Might be time to get back amongst some club pals and team stuff for a bit. Binning club stuff off and NOT hitting aims is the worst of all worlds I think.
In racing I've always found the best position to just be where you know you're faster than before, or you have a vague pace per mile in mind, and just beat that each mile. Wokingham in Feb was the latter, 6ish the aim, 5.54 well under.
It's those times it's drilled down and precise where it's very easy to drop off. In training, 99% of reps or so were hit. The only one I didn't, was an 800m mid session that needed a ferocious 2.28 on a windy track. 2.33 i think, which was fast (for me), but well off.
So while we're talking "one pace", most of the sessions had at least some 200s, while others have 2 or 3 1ks at 5k pace etc. So there was "some" faster work, but I appreciate not full sessions of it.
Anyway, 6 & 4 today. Both easy, but that feels better
Dachs, agree 20 degrees isn't optimal but it's hardly debilitating either....not like the temps you had to race your half in Malaga. That was hot. Still can't believe you lot ran a half in that.
xc for me on Saturday. Part of the course is called boggy field...fair to say my least favourite part...hopefully this unseasonable heat wave we have had will dry the course up solid, to give xc lightweights like myself a chance. It's the sort of course I could imagine Simon watering to make as boggy as possible to make it proper xc
anyone else racing?
For more info about dog training add . and com with the site which is written below.
Dogstrainingtools
ie laps, small ups and downs and some exceptionally thick muddy bogs - which last year smelt of absolute turd.
It's the only course I could imagine the sat leagues / pros racing on. Whereas all our other courses are random mixes of hills, woods, chalk / bone hard trail, grass, paths, sand and stuff to jump over.
Last year had some exceptionally sapping spells of super thick mud, and strangely I had a mid/late race surge that has probably only happened at the old Tadley, and I picked off some names I shouldn't be beating. Will see how Sunday goes!
The temperature you feel in the sun's glare is obviously higher than that from inside the box.
So if the Met office says it was 11 degrees - they meant it was 11 degrees here - not there, or from the car or race course.
🙂
To me it seems you cannot let go of the habits formed all those years back when you were prescribed zones to train in.
The basic problem with that idea is that you really have no idea from day to day what zone is which. That's because you don't know from one day to the next what your race ability is at any given moment.
You can get a pb for a distance, but at what point can you train based on that pb when the result of getting the pb puts you in hospital, or worse, thinking you might start supporting Man City.
🙂
I'd imagine most people on this thread work to some sort of logic on numbers to hit, unless we're dealing with a right load of blaggers
Before that I was sort of avoiding the hardest tempos, and just rampaging track stuff as it came out.
I race to effort, form, breathing, balance, cadence, wind, hills, humidity, heat, efficiency and everything that I need to in order to propel myself from A to B in the shortest time over the distance.
I leave split times to take care of themselves. They are there to note, but not to dictate.
If I did that, the first occasion I broke the hour for ten miles, I would have blown up after two miles. Why? Because breaking the hour was possible for me then, just.
However, the first mile was clocked at 6:15. Then what? Push the pace to make up time? Or simply accept I was at optimal sustainable effort?
I choose the latter, because I knew it to be true. Good decision. Mile 2 clocked up in 11:45. No, I hadn't sped up. It was that the first mile marker was in the wrong place.
The subsequent splits indicated I was pinching two or three seconds per mile. 59:14 finish.
I didn't set out to run 59:14. The time was a product of training and whatever was there on the day.
That's all anyone can do. And no amount of forcing the numbers will change that.
🙂
On the day it came out slower for probably some of the reasons you list as variables. Simple as.
If 5.52 had been optimistic, chances are some of the 15sessions targeting that pace wouldn't have gone to plan.
Chances also are that one race isn't total evidence the approach wasn't sound.
What did you drink before the race? Was it just water? From what I can gather, like me you get hot and sweaty very easily! Which could mean you are losing a lot of electrolytes while racing over longer distances. Could be something worth thinking about? I'd definitely credit keeping on top of the electrolytes as one of the reasons Abingdon went well for me.
As for training, there are many ways to skin a cat! I'd never ran a sub 6 mile before I posted my 18.09 5k PB.
Legs are feeling remarkably good after Sunday. Went for a gentle 5 miles tonight, didnt feel too bad. Won't run again now until Sunday though
A book by Horwill and Wilson even covered the subject. Stress will slow you down.
SG, were you stressed when doing sessions?
Were you stressed in the days leading up to the race and on the day?
Simply thinking that having to hit a target lest risk eternal damnation will be a stress raiser.
My best races were off the cuff jobs. I may well have just done a session when someone says lets do such and such race tomorrow. No problem. Didn't matter. Just a run out for a laugh.
I didn't have any preconceived notions of race results. I just raced and trusted that if I'd got my training right, I'd be ok. If not, so what.
I was as good as I could be on any day. It was what it was.
🙂
StevieWh, I did something similar. I'd run a 1:28 half M, then got roped into 3.2 mile race. For some reason I got to thinking it was so short it must be a sprint. I took off like a scaled cat and averaged 5:47's.
Not bad in trainers, but my back muscles seized up so bad I spent the next few hours in bed.
I've done a few hundred races since but have never again attacked like that. My nerve went possibly along with the steam which came out of my ears.
🙂
I think the psychology of athletes is interesting and often overlooked. Everyone looks for reasons for a great or poor performance
some people look for reasons to prove themselves right to make themselves feel better and others look for areas to change and make themselves run better.
This summer was a disaster for me in terms of race times....there was a very valid and good reason why but I am not sitting back on it and say that explains it 100%. I am changing up my training plan. There is always something we can improve or adjust by taking on advice.
Cloud cover is the biggie isn't it in Spring and autumn. Bit of cloud cover for longer races and you're laughing.
Road rep session last night, 8 x 1k, half with a slightly uphill last 100m and the other 4 coming back down that bit for the start 100m, so the easier 4 were around 3.07, the harder 3.09, 3.05 for the last rep. Recovery about 80 secs. Starting to feel a bit fitter post Malaga now.
No racing for me Dean! After 3 weeks of racing it's footie time - Fulham away. As per usual we meet a team desperate to 'reset' their season, 2-2 my prediction.
Even when Ric is roasting me I know it comes from the right place
Your last post reads like I've created a plan, it's failed and yet I'm stubbornly arguing with everyone that I was right. A take that I'm happy with any sort of mediocrity and will embrace it, while others are swiftly onto the path to improve.
It's not quite up there with the "some of you are happy just to do multiple races, others of us are only happy competing for World champs" but it was along the same sort of condescending approach.
The reality is obviously different - I've worked to someone else's plan totally, it was only one race, and I'm actually going the other way, slightly panicked asking and receiving feedback and advice off loads of people, on and off forum.
I was merely pointing out that there WAS some faster work, as I don't think it's fair to Johnas to label it totally "One paced.
The worst thing is I feel I've slightly let Johnas down with Sunday. I think I owed him a better turnout for his efforts for me.
I can confirm I'm not "sitting back", or ignoring advice, and I will be changing almost immediately, after a couple of weeks of recovering/xc.
Turned wet and cold hasn't it.
Where was this Sunday
And apologies for that little post detracting from Simon's quite stunning reps there!
like when you repeatedly like to point out that masters internationals have no selection and anyone can go and do it. almost trying to diminish what some of us do. i laughed, didnt take it personally and probably threw a jokey comment back. im sure you didnt mean any offence, it meant nothing, just like my comments.
I normally soak up the little comments, but I took it a bit as anti Johnas' plan, which is not fair. Me not performing well off it isn't a sign his plan wasn't sound.
But let's move on...forget last weekend's race, and think about this weeks.
(Unless that goes bad then i was never there
Simon - I don't choose steep hills ! Anyway all about the effort
Quiet week for me, just easy running. A locker door at the gym fell off and landed on my ankle. I slipped on the stairs a day after (probably down to compensation for the ankle) and bruised my back and headbutted a door. So I've been running gingerly and not risking any medium fast stuff until the bruising settles down and I can see straight.
I had been hoping to do a 10 mile road race this weekend but after this week's to and fro, I am not so sure now !
Ha ha SG- do the old Fast Show 'You ain't seen me...right! at the finish!!
Cheers Both - Yes lets keep the general level of 'banter' at where it should be on here..I think that it's good that we can be forthright, obviously as long as it's constructive.
It was funny last night in the pub, 4-5 of us talking with coach about standards in racing etc etc - I said we should record it as a podcast. Christ that would get some comments...Would need to find a name for it 'Elitist club runners talk' 'Better in my day' or something like that
Muddy (aka Calamity Jim)- hope you manage not to injure yourself for a while mate! Mileage wise - try to hit at least 60 miles with 2 decent sessions tbh. Usually sorts me out ok.
Anyway, when you write stuff down you have one interpretation and when others read it they often do so differently, so my "fat shaming" comments are never aimed to be such but they can be interpreted as such. General guidelines: sit down, share a beer (or a non-alcoholic alternative) and if the person sitting opposite you is nice to you in person then what they write when you are not face to face is very unlikely to be different.
good luck at the weekend...I just hope it's not too warm
mind you just seen the weather report, not much chance of that...looks like a chilly one.