Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭
    Sorry Bus, must have misread something on skimming posts. So now I've just said you're getting old without any context.

    I got 3rd V40, so it was a pretty decent vet standard.

    SG, yeah, probably, like I say I've no idea really.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    I was there to cheer you to the podium Dachs - you were long gone :smile:

    And I am getting old without context, that is for sure :smiley:
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Bus, you've done such a good job inadvertently convincing the forum's Wokingham locals you were 3rd v50 you deserve an honorary prize for it ;)

    Great run Dachs, well more than great really but we run out of decent superlatives for your level. That lad Kevern of BFR is improving rapidly though isn't he? 2nd to your high-flying team mate at Bramley last week too, albeit about as distant a 2nd as Utd were in the Premier League last year. Presume Mr Corney is in VF's nowadays too?

    Good to hear you've joined the Orange Revolution. I reckon they improve performances about 1-1.5% on average based on my runs in them so far and looking at all others I know in them. So that would be about 40 secs to 1 min over a HM for you. Does that sound about right? I was very tempted to get a better analysis this weekend by running my club monthly 10k in normal lightweight shoes, as conditions were so similar to last month. On the day though the chance to get my sub 38 won out and I still missed it by 1 second even in the VF's. Maybe I'll do that experiment next month if conditions and my form are similar.

    Congrats to all the other Wokey runners, especially Joe. Like others have said surely more to come from you soon. Brave efforts Reg, Bus and Jooligan, makes me feel a bit of a wimp not running it just because I hadn't trained for the distance. BTW I need those shoelace lessons too Ric; total nightmare in my duathlon last year when I managed to knot my laces trying to take the running shoes off pre bike leg and wasted about 1 min either side of the bike leg failing and giving up untieing the knot pre and then having to do it post :s Proved I'm not a triathlete there eh Reg. 
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited February 26
    Great result Dachs though a little unnerving to see you regarding a race of yours as anything than shit or no better than it ought to be  ;) 

    The 4% claim on the Vapourfly was based on a marathon wasn't it?

    The other % improvements are likely to be a little less. 

    Pete, I had shoelace problems once. As usual it was always in a marathon. Damned racers slackened right off as I ran and I needed to get them clamped back on my feet.

    A double tight knot at that moment is not what you need for a quick tighten up. Following that I've even tried safety pins across the knot - that's also iffy.

    But finally, it was simply stuffing the loose ends of the knot away that sorted it out. 

    I tried elastic laces (tri-stuff) for a while but the flexing of the shoe gave me tendinitis on the top of my foot. Mind you, how tri athletes can jump into shoes and run with sand all over their feet is anyone's guess.

    Anyway, unless my hands are frozen, I can tie laces really fast.

    Imagine a shoe with the laces completely untied. Then tied in a loop. Undo completely and repeat.
    17 times in one minute is my record!

    My life is full of thrills!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    There's isn't a lot of sand on the bike courses, Ric.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    RicF said:

    Imagine a shoe with the laces completely untied. Then tied in a loop. Undo completely and repeat.
    17 times in one minute is my record!

    My life is full of thrills!
    Lol Ric; you could get in the Guinness Book of Records with that skill; mind you there may be limited competitors in that particular niche :)
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Ian's Shoelace Site. It will change your life :smile:

    https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/


  • Well didn't have any time yesterday - so here's a quick report from the indoors.

    Firstly - well done all over the weekend, not just the Wokey gang. I have read all through but not name checking everyone! Dachs, great run and it certainly looks like the Nikes must have got you a minute there, still think you would have ran well enough without them tho. I will obviously keep calling them cheat/clown shoes..until I get a pair or someone gives me a pair for free ;)

    So first up at Lee Valley was the 1500 - racing against Mark from AFD who beat me and Dean to the gold in Malaga. He's now a V50 - but theM35-49 and M50-59 were racing together. So I went for the WHAT I SHOULD HAVE DONE IN MALAGA (copyright)...and went off like a scolded cat. Quite hard to get the timings right but I think it was 66, 2.18, 3.05 at the unofficial bell (2 laps to go) and ended up with 4.14, enough to beat Mark by a  couple of seconds, obviously just got my head down and tried to get to the finish as quick as poss! Good thing is Mark is doing the M50 3000m in Torun next month (as well as the 8 & 1500), so the Sunday night piss up is already arranged

    the 3000m was about 4 hours later - very pedestrian first 4 laps behind a Welsh guy, but I was chopping too much, and was another front run, coming home in 9.20. Obviously it's interesting as you have to lap people on a 200m track, and that was the same last week. Hopefully in Poland we won't have to lap too many people, which can help get me down to and hopefully sub, 9 mins.

    Good day out though, Eastern Masters won both men and womens competitions. Did feel a bit weird not being up at Leeds for the national though. Herne Hill ladies won the overall lowest score on the day up at Leeds across all age groups, taking a cup that AFD have had for the last 11 years, so that was brilliant.

    Just been out on the canal, for my staple 30 x 30 secs session. Far too busy now, would like to see bikes banned from the canal towpath in the rush hour now. They're not all bad, but there's so many runners and walkers now..there's just no room.



  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Top quality double gold there Simon.  At least I am assuming it was double gold, you kind of don't really say.  How's it feel running a 3K indoors?

    Certainly a great achievement by HHH, you must have some quality juniors coming through.

    Yeah, the cheat shoes thing I know is semi in jest, but it struck me seeing the domination of the Vaporflys at the front of the field on Sunday, which will be increasingly the case everywhere and would potentially be accompanied by improving times across the board, that there may be mounting calls for a ban.  How that could ever be effectively enforced I don't know, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised.  If so, at least I have a faster time in old school racers to fall back on.

    Shoelaces - I just do a triple knot.  Then I realise I have a stone in my shoe, and have to undo the triple knot then tie it again.

  • Dachs - very impressive running mate, that's awesome. Really enjoyed reading your report. 

    Ric - 17 times in a minute is just silly. I might employ you to run alongside me in case of any future issues.

    Great racing as always Simon, congrats on the double win. Are you doing both events in Poland? Agree re; HHH - awesome result. My mate Angus seems to be developing rather nicely over there with you guys.

    For anyone who likes a slightly more detailed report (SG), there's one now up on my blog;

    https://spragginsblog.wordpress.com/2019/02/26/wokingham-half-marathon-24-02-2019/
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited February 26
    A great few days for the thread - well done chaps. Feels a good buzz on here at the moment. Helped quite a bit by signing up Joe and Jools. Fresh super keen types like you chaps will always go down well on here.

    Simon - another top notch performo. Must be mad doing 200m laps. Even more darn laps - but over so quick! I can't actually even imagine laps so short.

    I fancy getting a couple of different distances on the PO10 this year, or at worst getting a performance on there for rarely raced, like 4m or 7m. The 4m would be one of the softest ever thread pbs to beat. And the series Jools mentioned looks a great opportunity to do it.


    Ric - your 2nd best ever claim to fame, with the 1st obviously being you holding a world record lowest ever HR ;):dizzy:

    JB, i'll be all over that shortly.

    Had a cheeky look at Reading half, but shouldn't. There was enough fretting for Wokey - so probably a sign to move on and come back shorter. I think I feed off continual re-assurance from regular sessions and races these days - so that seems the better way to go rather than long builds to single races.

     Today's 6 was fine, but probably not the freshest, probably because after 2 runs yesterday, I was doing some extra curricular PO10 work for a couple of hours post work yesterday.
     Might be helping them out in the summer. Tidying up some results in their busiest time of year type stuff.  A heck of a lot to learn though. Very intricate stuff.

    Dachs - I wondered how a ban might be enforced. I could only imagine it at top level or for winners of bigger races. You can't have people patrolling around looking at trainers for goodness sake, either in the flesh or by photos later.
    For one thing, I'm sure there must be a few different variants that look similar anyway.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    PeteM said:
    RicF said:

    Imagine a shoe with the laces completely untied. Then tied in a loop. Undo completely and repeat.
    17 times in one minute is my record!

    My life is full of thrills!
    Lol Ric; you could get in the Guinness Book of Records with that skill; mind you there may be limited competitors in that particular niche :)
    I think the official WR was 14 when I had a go.

    Oh, and I also did a single duvet in 48 seconds including the fastenings, followed by a double in 1minute 17 seconds. *

    Christ, you sad b...rd I thought! I really need to get out more.

    * My missus was out of the house at the time. I don't want her getting ideas. She'll be getting me to help her next.

    SG, what was that low HR of mine? 27bpm I think. Method: Fully race fit, half starved, half frozen first thing in the morning. Mind you, even now it's mid 40's.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    It was that it was lower than the reported world record that raised a chuckle Ric....like the time my "workmate" reckoned the Eastleigh 10k was won in a time quicker than the track world record.  :D

    Simon - im "sure" they felt more powerful for a 1mile rampage round a twisty park in Ealing - so i do look forward to eventually testing!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Joe - good read that one. I wrote similar on your FB, but it's normally taken up amongst all your fawning fans so maybe missed 
    2nd best race reports on the net?  o:)


  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    edited February 26
    RicF said:

    SG, what was that low HR of mine? 27bpm I think. Method: Fully race fit, half starved, half frozen first thing in the morning. Mind you, even now it's mid 40's.
    Ricardo lad, Induráin's (remember him?) resting heart rate was famously 28bpm (and he was off his tits on EPO) and the world record is 27bpm. If you were "half frozen" at the time of recording your corresponding blood pressure and heart rate would have been significantly elevated.

    I'm not saying it's an inaccurate reading, but did you use a sundial to measure it?!
  • Cheers All..

    Dachs - They'll never ban a certain pair of trainers, all that will happen is the plate will get incorporated into more shoes, like the Boost foam and the shoes will get slightly less expensive. Was in the Adios this morning though - lovely trainers

    SG - You're right - it is a bit weird with the 200m laps and it can get a little warm and dry mouthed too. But I really like the feel of running indoors with the banking - I still think it's a little easier to do the 3000m indoors than out. You just need to check the time every 2 laps instead of one and use the fake bell with 2 laps to go. Did you get the hint that the famous E O'G was in my 1500m? Had a great chat with him after for at least an hour. Good company tbf...you were mentioned a couple of times. Think it was all good ;)

    Joe - Just the 3000m in Poland - the first weekend, 24th March. Didn't know you knew Angus..nice guy and welcome addition to the gang.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited February 26
    I referenced it Simon ;)
    But i forgive you as it probably got lost in the 23 pages in between (probably 21 of them me) with the will i - probably won't i wokey saga!

    He's a decent guy most times, just loses a bit online at times!!
    (Like me...apart from the decent guy bit ;) )

    PO10 up to 201/240 now upon approval of my last batch. Can possibly squeeze that up another 3-4 at max now,  so pretty much done there... now, what was i doing before i started that!!  o:)
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Nice reports of some excellent racing SC2 Dachs. Enjoyed the blog as usual Joe.
    Ric Just one word WHY?
    Enjoyed the Vaporfly article again but reckon I can live without the shoelaces site tho Bus :D You running again yet?
    Good to hear that you're getting back into it SG & itching to increase that Po10 total with some current races. There's a good chance I'll see you at a Rose Inn 4M. Be sure to let us know when you're heading way out west. 
    Muddy You seem to have been out & about the last 2 days rather than laid low with a lurgy :) 
    No running for me yesterday though I did cycle commute 10M each way: freezing fog on the way in but glorious sunshine for the return leg. Did the same again today but about 3 degrees warmer on both legs & no fog: B) were required :) Also got out for a short stretch at lunch 4x300 off 100 walk into jog. Legs were surprisingly responsive hitting 3K pace from the start & speeding up steadily throughout. Went up the club this evening for track again. Did 10K wu going twice round the parkrun with a mildly progressive 2nd half then joined the session averaged [email protected]:07 with 8/6/4/2 minute efforts. Paces were 6:24/6:22/6:00/5:50 so reasonable given Sunday's racing.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Bloody good effort Simon and well done on the medals :smile:

    No Jools - not run yet (other than down 22 flights of steps at work today as I was late for a meeting!). Similar to you though - double cycle commute of 16M each way which felt fine (other than frozen fingers and toes this morning!).  

    My legs actually don't feel too bad (though Wednesday is usually DOMS day for a Sunday half!). I thought that a few days rest would actually be more productive than running at this point. I might try an easy recovery run tomorrow lunchtime, but pretty relaxed about it to be honest.

    I have to say, that is a very impressive session tonight post half - more than "reasonable"!

    There's actually only one lacing technique needed, whihc was on the Inov 8 website back in the days when it was useful rather than just another sales site - it's the one where you do the first loop before the bow twice, then just pull the final knot tight up to it.  Very simple, incredibly secure and has the advantage of coming undone with a quick pull like a normal bow when your knackered and want to get your shoes off without a faff....

  • Excellent run Dachs. You're experienced enough not to be underestimating your capabilities, I think. I note that Joe also surprised himself on a first outing in the Vaporflys.

    A ban won’t happen - the NY Times study in the link Simon posted shows that switching to other race shoes has a positive impact on times too, with some runners getting more benefit than others for the same shoe. It has always been like this - this thread was extolling the virtues of the Boost shoes when I first started reading. I notice Hoka are launching a shoe with a similar plate construction; Adidas have launched the UltraBoost 19 with Torsion Bar. The small performance gap with other shoes will narrow, I’m sure.

    I’m also someone that ran marginally faster without the use of Vaporfly a couple of years ago. The difference between then and now is that my recoveries are so much more rapid. For me that makes the shoes worth it, especially when trying to slot a bit of racing into a tight marathon schedule.

    As Jooligan notes, I have been running easy miles in a kill or cure approach. So it’s looking like a mini taper will be in place beyond Wednesday for Newport if I can shake feeling under the weather. I’ll try a test run with 3m at half effort at lunchtime today.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited February 27
    Good luck Muddy. It's too long a distance to be going into if you're not fancying it physically or mentally (Unless you're called Reg, but then he at least pretty much lives on Sunday's route!)

    Sounds a sharp return to faster running there Jools - 2 days on!
    I can remember finding some efforts hard on the Friday after a half before!

    Will deffo let you know about the 4mile. Last year I put a sheet of every single possible race on it, then worked out the logistics after that. There's always a few clashes on there, but it's good to lay out the choices early doors.
    Local races where you know loads of people are good at times, but I've always quite liked going to places I know no-one and making it a pure race with none of those thoughts of who you should be ahead of, or shouldn't be etc.
    Deffo want to get a few random distances on there. There's an Oxford series that does 2-4milers, but I'm a bit cautious that in the past a few of them have been NAD, or MT. But we'll see.


    9 miler today. Had set off from home vaguely thinking in the 8-10 mix, but 9 suited for both the disjointed route I picked, and for time sake (literally got to my desk as time ticked to 9.00)

    Dodgy route, a bit down bath Road, then a few miles on the Jubilee river, through Slough town centre, out towards Upton court then back through Slough.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭
    Interesting stuff Muddy - can't say I'm experiencing the recovery benefits of the Vaporfly, the DOMS this week is worse than normal, but as you say it may be different runners get different things out of it.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Must totally be down to your style of striking on both the benefits pace and recovery wise.

    If you're a delicate toe striker (if such thing exists) for instance then surely you wouldn't get any pace benefit?
  • Went out for a run at lunchtime today over the hills between Wycombe and Aylesbury and talk about abuse of privilege: the roads in Wycombe are full of potholes and yet the roads where Bus just happens to run and cycle on in the middle of nowhere (Bryants Bottom no less) are being resurfaced to F1 smoothness. 
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭

    Dachs - Fantastic result at Wokingham, really enjoyed the report. Are you doing a spring marathon?

    Simon - Congrats on the double gold!

    Enjoyed the blog Joe, have you made a decision about how to race London yet?

    In my 2nd week back of training since the calf tear, managed 30m last week and will do 35 this week. I'm hoping with 5 weeks decent training Manchester won't be too much of a disaster.

    8 x 1k of 60s last night. Plan was to start at HMP and progress from there, ended up doing 3 @ HMP, 4 @10k and 1 @5k. First rep was too slow but pleased to hit 4.04,3.55,3.52/3.44,3.47,3.48,3.44/3.37. Pleased to see I haven't lost too much speed.

    Standard weekly bike session tonight of 30mins of 30s on/30s off

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    edited February 27
    Pure coincidence Philip :smile:  I didn't think it was being done until later this year, but make hay while the sun shines I guess! It was in a right state to be fair, and I believe it is only surface dressing rather than proper resurfacing that many of the major routes still need.  I will need to take advantage soon though and get a fast Strava segment on the bike before the times start falling!

    No DOMS for me this week - or not that I've noticed, as I haven't run! Possibly a result of not actually running very fast on Sunday I guess!!! I was intending an easy jog out at lunch but work got in the way

    Nice session Stevie.

    Oh, and this non-running is bad for you - bloody right knee has been killing me today, just like a couple of weeks back where a run sorted it out!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    I've not had any DOMs either Bus but then I've not given my legs a chance :D
    15 miles along the Gloucester-Sharpness canal this evening. Felt surprisingly fresh legged for the first 9 but then the rough towpath in the descending gloom knocked my legs about from 9.5 to 12.5 so it became something of a mental & physical struggle in the last couple of miles. Guess that session yesterday so soon after Wokey really took it out of my legs!
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    The Bus said:
    Sorry about that Philip :smile:  I didn't arrange for it to be done until later this year, but make hay while the sun shines I guess! It was in a right state to be fair, and I believe it is only surface dressing rather than proper resurfacing that many of the major routes still need.  I will need to take advantage soon though and get a fast Strava segment on the bike before the times start falling!

    No DOMS for me this week - or not that I've noticed, as I haven't run! Possibly a result of not actually running very fast on Sunday I guess!!! I was intending an easy jog out at lunch but work got in the way

    Nice session Stevie.

    Oh, and this non-running is bad for you - bloody right knee has been killing me today, just like a couple of weeks back where a run sorted it out!
    Abuse of privilege then  ;)
  • Totally agree ric, note how bus' entry is edited after you quoted him and got his true reaction  ;)

    The Bus said:
    Pure coincidence Philip. I didn't think it was being done until later this year

    RicF said:
    The Bus said:
    Sorry about that Philip. I didn't arrange for it to be done until later this year
    Abuse of privilege then  ;)

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