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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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It means my shit parkrun time is stuck on my Po10 as my PB forever.
Hi guys,
Been reading this thread for a long while and even contributed a few times a couple of years ago. After doing very little for the last year or two due to working abroad I'm starting to get back into running. Got to the point where I've churned a few 50+ weeks out and just booked in for a 10k on 1st June. I was wondering from a quality point of view what people's opinion of the best set up for 10k training would be. My quality days are Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. Currently doing two track sessions and hills on Saturday. Is two track the best way to go or should i sub one track for a tempo/threshold run? Also with the 10k distance being reasonably short do I need the strength training from the hills on Saturday or would this be better suited to another track session? Hoping to get back to form this year and match or beat my 10k pb of 35.34.
SG, what does marathon pace do but make you tired but slower than you would like to run at in a race of your chosen distance?
I'll let you off if you were running up a hill at the time.
🙂
lodan1, is that a sole 10k? I find that your best bet for a 10k or other short distance is to get a series set up, so do a few 5ks to get the pace sorted out, especially as you have been off for a year or so. If you do track Tue and Thu and get a few races in then that should see you through.
Lodan, I don't think you need 3 track sessions, 2 should cover it. 1 long reps, 1 short sprints reps working on running economy.
Track Tuesday for me. 8*1k 90sec rec target 3.15.
they came out 3.15, 3.14, 3.13, 3.15, 3.15, 3.16, 3.13, 3.10.
happy as they felt comfortable and could have done more reps. building fitness up and feels completely different to 4 weeks ago.
Lodan - personally I would say one quality track session and one quality tempo would be about right (with the focus on quality) with a bit of fine-tuning in short races, as Phil suggests. Hills are always going to be good for strength and are effectively speed-work by stealth. That said, your 10k PB is already faster than mine so not sure I'm best placed to give you advice
Very nice session Dean.
2 x 6M xc for me today. Nothing too spectacular, but the evening one in the sun was particularly pleasant, even if both ended in a tad of discomfort. It's nice to be running off-road on firm surfaces again!
Phil - Not a sole 10k, a week later is a my county championship 10m race and then 2 weeks after that is the county championship 10k. I'm in two summer leagues with my club so I'll have two 5 milers per month starting from 14th April and also have a local park run.....only problem with the park run is it starts at 9am and I tend to still be watching the inside of my eyelids at that time.
Dean - 3.10 was the fastest 1k rep I ever did and it came at the end of the same session as you did above....my other reps were between 3.18 and 3.21 though. It amazes me now how fit I used to be, even though at the time I always thought i was behind the curve...did a 1k rep in a pyrimid session last night and it came out at 3.46
When you say working on running economy what do you mean? Relaxing through the reps and not tensing up or something else?
If I cut one speed session out which would be better? Run Tuesday and Thursday then easy Saturday or Tuesday and Saturday easy on Thursday?
Also any suggestions for maxing out long run? 12 miles?
Sorry for all the questions but you guys seem pretty speedy so must know the tricks of the trade
For a 10k, 12 miles long run is enough.
🙂
Lodan - For me (and the guys here will be bored of my repetition!) but threshold running is where Ive seen the biggest gains for me personally. I would swap Thursday for a threshold run (I do mine on the track) and progressively build the time spent running at that pace over the weeks. You've got 12 weeks until race day so plenty of time to build and make a real difference.
Whether 2 or 3 sessions a week is too much is down to you. personally, I do 3 sessions a week on the same schedule as you (with Sat being hills or undulating circuits with tempo thrown in) but others here are happy doing 2. Depends what your body can handle.
As for long run, I agree with Ric but I run by time and wouldn't do more than 90 mins max.
My easy running is around 7.30 pace so the 90 mins/12 miles fits right with my thinking.
Johnas - when you say build the threshold runs could you give me an example? Would you start off with reps and small recoveries building into continuous tempo running with no breaks or would you start straight off with say 15mins and build a few minutes on each week? Would HM pace be right for threshold running?
lodan1, with a schedule like that, you should get race fit just by racing. As Dean says, one short and one long session will give you some variety. I'd also go for a slightly longer long run than 12 miles if you are racing 10 miles: 12 is fine for a 10k.
Dean, how do you work out the target of 3:15 which is 32:30? Is that based on target 10k pace?
When I used to read this thread before there used to be a guy called chingcognito...is he still around? He was making some good progress and got to a 1.16 half I think last time i read a race report, was just wondering how much further he's come or if he stopped?
I usually start at 5 minute intervals so either 4 or 5 x 5 mins and then build from there: 4x 6 mins, 4x 8mins, 3x 10mins, 4x 10mins, 3x 15 mins etc etc. I leave the recoveries quite short, no more than 90 secs.
threshold is between your HM and 10k pace - many say your 10 mile pace. it should feel 'comfortably hard'
coachs choice really. next week will be 6*1200 same pace/recovery. then following week will be 8*1k at 3.10 pace probably. we will progressively get quicker until i hit 3.05 pace although my coach thinks i should get sub 3 for these once fit. but we will see.
Ran 2:57:31 in London marathon 2012 and hasn't been heard of since.
Dean, 3 minutes per km is fast be it 5k or 10k pace. Once VLM is over I have 18 moths before my next one so will be trying for some speed at shorter distances.
agreed, sub 3mins for 1k reps is shifting (i have never done a session that quick before) and im hoping the recovery will reflect the effort. but im totally in his hands so im doing the reps at the pace he asks. he knows his only goal for me is to get me in sub 2min 800m shape and this is part of that journey.
are you targeting a slope down the distances post VLM? have a few cracks at 10k, then a few at 5k and maybe a 3000m? probably a steeplechase?
Loden - chingo got a groin injury after london marathon that put him out for a yr and last i heard he was cycling.
I'm doing Northern 12 stage couldn't make the A team, so leg 7 B team (long leg)
Johnas I'm doing my first threshold session tonight but doing it to HR not pace should be interesting
Dean great session as always, and your pace is coming back in bucket loads.
Not content with being in the top ten milers in the UK then Philip
?
Sub 3mins for 1k will be pretty outstanding stuff Dean!
Reps for me at lunch, probably 1ks, aiming to do 6, but see how the leg goes. TBH, I don't feel at all like doing them at the moment, but sure I'll manage to work up the motivation somehow....
have fun rob. HR should be around 80% - 85% for threshold.
Did a 4x 10mins off 90 sec recoveries myself last night: average paces were 5:29, 5:20, 5:28, 5:18 (made a concerted effort on rep 3 to slow it down considerably but opened up on the last one to try out 10k pace and it felt gooooood!)
did a 6x 1000m session last week too off 90 sec recoveries - 3.15, 3.15, 3.14, 3.19, 3.18, 3.20. A bit of fade towards the end so some threshold work to do.
still, think i've finally turned a corner on the injury front!
Johnas 2 good sessions good to hear injury turning the corner
I had a blood lactic threshold test last week and my threshold zone is set at 150-161 HR not sure what that is as a % as don't know max HR
Rob - your relay A team must be something if your are in the B team.
Some fast stuff Johnas, coming back to fitness
The plan is VLM this year and secure a GFA entry for 2016 when I will be 50. I will then run sub 3 as a 50 year old and then hang up my marathon shoes for a while.
Once VLM 2014 is done and recovered, I then have about 18 months until after Cabbage Patch 2015 when VLM 2016 preparation starts to look at speed and shorter distances. I intend to do a full cross country season next year including the nationals at Parliament Hill and bookend the cross country with autumn and spring half marathon races. I'll come down to 5000 and 3000 on the track but not shorter (apart for fun) and no more steeple chase.
I've been promoted to a long leg at the 12 stages so obviously a weak team.
Thats good news Johnas. Some cracking paces coming out there too.
Got my arse into gear and did 10x025M off 60 secs at lunch, after a 2 mile warm up.
Splits a little uneven, but reflect it was done on an incline. The first two involved road crossings, and the 3rd one was way out - I think it is a GPS glitch:
1:24, 1:24, 1:32, 1:21, 1:19,1:20, 1:17, 1:20, 1:20, 1:17.
I was aiming for 1:20, so not unhappy with those.
bus - nice work, your pace was getting faster towards the end reps, with as couple under target. .
I've been put in the 'A' team for the Southern Road Relays.
I didn't run the National Cross Country Championships, but Adam Bowden who was 11th and won the Wokenham Half Marathon last year hasn't made it into the team this time.
Says it all really.
🙂
In other news, daughter #2's college son (which I reckon is my college grandson) is cox for the Cambridge crew on Boat Race day. Can you spot the family resemblance?
Did first threshold run tonight to HR only, started with 2.5 k warm up then straight into 45 mins in HR range 150-161 on a Forrest trail/offroad run covered 11.9k at average pace of 6.07 min miles and HR average was 157 so bang in zone I then did 1.2k warm down pleasing session and surprised by pace!
Rob - is a Forrest trail one pioneered by Tom Hanks
. Good pace with that HR
Thanks Dean.
A team eh Ric? Well done. Now which one are you....do you get nervous about plane travel or do you love it when a plan comes together?
Philip - now THAT is pretty cool! How many millions watch the boat race?
bus haha forest off course
good 400m session how is the injury any after effects?
Phil wow your grandson coxing the boat race impressed