The Middle Ground

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    yes fair point. i tend to have one monthly and have done for years so an element of adaption in that regards. 
  • Thanks both, interesting thoughts.

    I’ve just done a couple of easy runs this week and have a long one of 7.5 planned for tomorrow.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    18.47 today. Not bad all in. 
  • Did the 7.5 yesterday. Will probably take advantage of the rarity of being able to run on a Monday by getting out for 4 or 5 today, to allow me to spread my mileage more evenly across the week for once!

    Happy New a Year all for tonight.
  • Well done DT ...although at first I thought it meant you had run 18.47 miles!

    AD: I note your miles for 2018 and think you should be aiming for 1254.55 miles in 2019. That just happens to be 2019 km! 

    Not a good year here with far too many injuries (back fracture, Achilles/calf and meniscus damage in the knee). 2019 has got to be better! And a new age group challenge in two days' time, not that it will be any easier! 


    Have a good end to 2018 and a great 2019 everyone.

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • And a minimum of 2019 miles for you, DT!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Mixed pace long over lunch with 5 easy, 3mp, 2 easy, 3hmp, 1.3 easy. That gives me 2088 miles for year which is my highest ever and decent as i was injured all January.

    Yes youve had a rough year, Alehouse for sure.

    onwards and upwards next year!!
  • That might be a bit too far for me Alehouse - depends how the start of the year goes though I suppose.

    Great mileage for the year DT. 14.3 miles including MP and HMP at the end of the Christmas week sounds very impressive!

    I did 4 easy miles earlier, felt quite fresh.

    JGav - not heard from you for a while. How are you getting on?

    Takeaway and a couple of cans at home tonight, can’t be doing with going out on NYE anymore! 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Easy 6 this afternoon to open the 2019 account. Brass monkey in less than 2 weeks now. 

    We had a house full last night and quite a bit of over indulgence all round. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    AD: 2019 is 24.1 miles a week. I think that is do-able for you!

    What's the plan between now and BM, DT?

    parkrun here this morning and very surprised to get 22:54/72.56%. Last run in the age group so thought I had better make a bit of an effort. Started off steadily and each k was quicker than the previous one. Almost a minute quicker than anything in 2018 and the fastest since June 2017. Hope the Achilles and calf live to tell the tale. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    well done, Alehouse. Decent start to the year. 

    This week is 10mlr tomorrow, 5 easy thursday, a session of some sort Friday and 14 sunday. 

    Next week will then be pulled right back. 

    Looking to enter the Village Bakery half in wrexham as well for mid February. Heard it's a decent race. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Had family around today, so no running here. I’m planning a short tempo run tomorrow as a bridge back into those sessions after a few weeks without any such efforts, before the 10k training block starts in earnest next week.

    Alehouse - I’m aiming for 22-25 each week from now until mid April, so about on track for the 24 average, but the problem is maintaining this when also throwing in a weekly cricket match from May - end of August!!
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Happy New Year to you all.  Anyone been setting their annual targets?

    I've got 1000km with a stretch goal of 1200km 
    Debut marathon (probably October)
    Finally break that 20 min 5k (current parkrun pb is 20.21)
    Would be nice to bag a few others PBs - but not focusing on them yet.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Happy New Year, JGav.

    What mara do you have your eye on?

    My immediate target is a sub 83 half and I have decent goes at it in January and February. February might be a better chance as I won't then be the size of a small south pacific island!

    I also want to run London at Sub 3 and push my 10k to closer to sub 38.

    10 mile mlr planned later. The cold weather this morning was a bit of a shock to the system.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Hi JGav.

    My immediate goals are to push my 10k pb below 43mins in April (currently 43.25), and to get my 5k pb close to 20 mins (currently 20.42). 

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Thinking Bournemouth.  I know a few people who will be running it and it's got a decent reputation.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Nice lunchtime 5 miles with a friend yesterday followed by run club today.  1 mile warmup then 3 x (3 min @ threshold 1 min @ 10k pace) only 60 seconds recovery, so the fatigue built up over the session.  That last 3 minute block I could really feel it! 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    I went out last night with the intention of a short tempo session (warm up, 2 miles at tempo (7mm pace) and then warm down). Stupidly I neglected to eat much at work in the afternoon so was starving and ate too much just before going out, resulting in a stitch 1.5 miles into the tempo block. I had managed 6.55mm pace for the 1.5 miles though, so was possibly pushing marginally too hard as well, which won't have helped! Oh well, at least it was some miles in the bank.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Yes, I like the looks of the Bournemouth festival. I would just be concerned that a coastal half in October ran the risk of too much wind.

    Andrew, I think you should have battled on (unless it was obscenely debilitating) as it's good to suffer the unanticipated as it can happen in a race.

    10 miles easy for me last night followed by 5 at recovery lunchtime. Key session tomorrow lunchtime before easing into a taper for next sunday.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    You're probably right DT, but I didn't fell like going to the well that much just for an extra half a mile at tempo at this stage of training.

    I'm having a planned rest day today, then some fartlek in tomorrow's run as a stepping stone to reintroducing some interval training into my running (something which was lacking in the last training block pre-November).

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Good to hear that you are introducing fartlek first, AD! When is your target 10k...beginning, middle or end of April? I would try to work out an approximate schedule of quicker work which is progressive. 

    JGav: if you are looking for an autumn marathon I think you need many more kilometres than even your stretch target of 1200! That is just over 20k a week and your long run will probably need to be longer than that on its own! 
    I will aim for 2019k which is around 38/39k a week (or 24.1 miles). I know if I do that I will be running pretty well! Need to manage the niggles though. Intend to introduce my own fartlek work in the very near future, also.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    JGAV, Alehouse is right. I just read that as miles and not KM. 1000km is 600 miles so 50 per month so 12 per week. Surely you mean miles???
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    I had meant km but I should probably up it to deal with a marathon.  With the cycling I do during the summer, I won't need as many miles as pure runner.   Maybe 1000 miles would be better.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Legs really feeling it after yesterdays run.  First time I've cranked the speed up in a while!  Need to do some recovery today, going to try and fit in a swim.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Alehouse - target race is 7 April, so 13 weeks from this Sunday. I currently have the following planned for speedwork sessions ignoring rest weeks:

    4 miles Fartlek

    2WU, 4(400; 60 secs rest), 2WD

    4.5 miles Fartlek

    2WU, 4(600; 60 secs rest), 2WD

    2WU, 4(600; 45 secs rest), 2WD

    2WU, 2(1000; 90 secs rest), 2WD

    2WU, 3(1000; 90 secs rest), 2WD

    2WU, 3(1000; 75 secs rest), 2WD


    So 8 sessions across the 13 weeks (if you can really call a fartlek run a session). Not exactly massive on volume, but I see this training block as just adding a layer on top of what I did last block which worked well and produced pbs across all distances but without overdoing it and risking injury, so adding in any speedwork will help.

    I am also planning to increase average mileage slightly and top end weekly mileage from 22 to 25. Tempo runs will start at 3 miles (as opposed to 2 miles last time) and top out at 4.5 miles (rather than 4 last time), with a total of 5  runs of 3.5 miles or more at tempo pace as opposed to only 2 such runs in the last block.

    Any comments?

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited January 4

    Looks decent, Andrew. what pace are the tempos? There is some value in doing some tempos for say upto 6 miles but perhaps 10-15 seconds a mile slower. Though that might be tricky as i recall your long runs don't go much further than 8 miles?

    Big session over lunch- 3 at hmp (90s) 1 at 10kp (3mins) and repeat. Thought i'd overcooked it when first mile came in 6.12 so purposely pulled the next rep back to 6.22, but was then feeling good so ended with a 6.15. Then a 6.06 for 10kp. Next set came in 6.15, 6.19 and 6.15. The final mile at 10kp was a struggled as I just couldn't make my legs move fast enough, coming in at 6.13.

    After my warm up my garmin said I was peaking and this was a peak session for next sundays half. Pleased with that!

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    I'd be quite happy with that, AD
    A few things though: 
    - I'd try to get your miles closer to 28-30 by lengthening the longer run or add in a few 20-25 minute additional easy runs. 
    - I personally wouldn't go further than 4 miles for a tempo when aiming at 10k.
    - I work in minutes and have a longer recovery initially, so I would be doing something like 3 x 2 mins with 90 seconds, but then reduce this in the second or third week to 60 or 75 seconds. Then I would progress to 3 then 4 x 3 mins with 2 mins initially, 90 seconds later in the cycle. Then 3 and then 4 x 4 minutes with 2 mins reducing to 90. 
    - 2mins is approx. 600, 3 is 800, 4 is a km. I have a particular place that I do these on gravel and just keep an eye on how far I manage in the time and try to go further as the weeks go by.
    - At this time of year one needs to be particularly aware of the weather! You may well have to work to effort rather than be disappointed with distances. And you may well have to re-assess the schedule if it is either too hard or too difficult. 
    - In my cut back weeks the one thing I don't cut out is this particular session, but I do reduce it so after week 4 I might repeat week 2 or 3 etc.
    - progressive consistent consistency is the key!

    Sounds a good day's training, DT!

    Have had the opportunity to run more over the past week but have deliberately not! Trying not to exceed the 10% per week rule! Achilles and calf still niggly after last week's parkrun but manageable. parkrun tomorrow will be on a tougher course and I will simply run round as a progressive run, I imagine. And I imagine it will be cold!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    DT - tempo pace should be between 7.04-7.10 (depending on whether I work from the VDOT from my 5k time, or the one from my 10k time). Naturally, the longer the run, the more towards the top end it will go. Long runs are starting at 8 miles (I've been doing 7.5 or 8 miles in my long runs for the past few weeks) and going to at least 9.

    Good session for you, wouldn't worry too much at the last 10k pace mile being more like HMP. Is it taper for the next week now then? Is the HM next Sunday a target race or the first of two HMs a few weeks apart (I recall you like to race two races)?

    Alehouse - thanks, I'll take all of that on board and tinker with the plan accordingly. Being at the more cautious end of the training scale, I am always willing to skip a session, or cut it short, if I can feel that it is a struggle or I am just generally feeling tired so I am willing to be flexible (especially on effort/paces).

    Interesting that you keep the speedwork session on cutback weeks. Training for 5 or 10k I would have thought that the speedwork session could have been the one to miss out, and that a reduced tempo session should be retained?

    Good luck at the parkrun - hope the niggly calf/achilles behave themselves! And yes, it is forecast to be very cold this weekend!

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    I find it important to keep the habit of the speedwork, AD, which is why I retain it, albeit in a cut back version. Not really a great fan of tempos as I always used to run them too hard, but that was a long time ago and I was much less disciplined! Now prefer my progressive parkruns: have done over 100 parkruns and still not run one flat out, although last week was close! Tomorrow won't be! And at my age I have to be particularly careful about not doing too many runs too hard. And meant to ask, how much stretching and strengthening are you doing? 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    How did parkrun go, Alehouse?

    Andrew, this was the sole target, however i have this week entered the village bakery half in Wrexham for mid February so it gives me my usual double.

    Just spin today. 14 easy tomorrow. 
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