The Middle Ground



  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Alehouse - glad to hear positive news about the prostate. Sounds like some steady progress, too. Have the other issues you were experiencing settled down fully now? And any more idea what set everything off? No issues with the vaccine for me - I did feel incredibly tired afterwards, but nothing more than that. 

    I repeated last week's pyramid session yesterday, as I wanted a session that wouldn't take too long. It felt way easier, HR was lower and I covered more distance (both in the reps and the recoveries). 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Alehouse, good to hear of the oncologist update.

    Sounds positive re the session, Muss, particularly in the heat.

    I've had a steady week with 5m Monday then 8 x 1k on Tuesday, which wasn't much fun at 1pm in the sun but ticked it off, then out first thing yesterday for 9m. Will go out over lunch for 4m then to spin. Tomorrow I have my weekly long run of 15m. I prefer getting these done on a Friday and doing my tempo on a sunday as the tempo doesn't take up so much time. Fine whilst I continue to be working from home, which seemingly won't be for much longer now.

    Also balancing training around going out drinking at present for as long as Wales are in the Euros, which looks likely to extend a little beyond the group stages after last night.

    I have my 2nd jab on Monday as well.

  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    Good to hear everyone is going well.

    I'm still not running, but still not suffering too much with my knee despite another 10 over spell at cricket on Saturday (4 wickets too!).

    The report that accompanied my scan had been sent to my GP and I spoke to them earlier this week. It said no major issues of concern, but they did note that the kneecap sits higher than is usual and this might be putting extra stress on the patella tendon, so I am being referred to an NHS consultant.

    Managed to bring my second jab forwards by 3 weeks, so only another 3 weeks until I get that.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Well done on the four-for, AD! I still think that you can run into bowl you should be able to start a walk/run recovery programme, just very gentle to start with.

    Re post vaccine issues, I am still getting tingling in my head, but less so; I have now had a headache at the back of my head for over 18 weeks, but less so. 

    Helping at the first of the local 5k series tonight. 700 entries and not sure how they will cope with waves. I will stay out of the way and stand on my corner! 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Alehouse - that is a long time to have those symptoms. I'm glad it's improving, but I really hope someone can get to the bottom of it and help you to find a solution.

    AD - sounds like progress. 

    A very wet 16km MLR for me on Thursday. I really enjoyed the first 45 mins or so, but by the time I was completely waterlogged, my insoles were sliding around in my shoes, and my nipples were badly chafed, it stopped being quite as fun!

    24.5km today. Legs feel surprisingly good, and I'm not too tired either.  That takes me to just below 65km for the week. I'll probably just look to repeat this week rather than building further for now. 
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    After another 6 overs on Saturday (rain affected game) I am going to go for a short easy run this evening to see how that feels. Fingers crossed.
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    edited June 2021
    Ended up doing about 20 minutes of run/walking - covered about 2 miles in total. Pace of the running parts was fine, but I was puffing more than I should for easy running! Its going to take a while to get back into this I can tell. Knee felt ok after, although I did ice the tendon after the run just to be sure, and no pain today.

    Might do similar tomorrow.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    That sounds good, AD, and is exactly the sort of first step back. I think the key think is not to rush things and would suggest something similar for the next couple of weeks, gradually reducing the walk breaks. And don't forget the strength and conditioning side of things as an injury prevention measure!

    Today is our first day of rain and it is only a drizzle! For once the north has been much drier. I would certainly have worn a rain jacket last week, Muss!

    Managed 40 km last week and was hoping for something similar this week, but may have to cut back a little as one shin is a little niggly. Not enough S&C perhaps! Am still getting the headaches, but perhaps less so, and the tingling seems to be reducing also. 

    Last Thursday's 5k was won in record time, 14:09, with seven under 15 minutes including a couple of vets! There were 216 under 20 minutes with a 68 year old friend being the last of those!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Just build it up slowly as Alehouse says, Andrew. I'd also suggest abandoning further plans to change running styles. Most people lose more than they gain from trying to do it.

    Sounds like a pretty sharp race, Alehouse and a pretty sharp 68 year old as well.

    I'm sitting at 50m a week give or take at present, which'll slowly build as London approaches. Few decent sessions logged, with a tough one yesterday of 3 x 2m off 2 min jog in the midday sunshine.

    Been enjoying the football a little too much as well so having a week in this week until Saturdays games.

  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    I strung together two more or less identical weeks of around 65km with 16/24km for MLR and LSR. I'd planned a slight cutback this week - I'm not feeling too tired, and have no niggles, but I think I'll take it anyway. If I had a similar week I think fatigue would only accumulate further.

    Two new pairs of shoes for me. A second pair of New Balance Propel V2 and Reebok Floatride 3 (these were only £40 with a discount code). The Reebok shoes are very comfortable and quite lightweight considering how cushioned they feel underfoot. As a general mileage/recovery shoe I'm very happy with them.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Nothing to report here, running-wise: the shin niggle reported last week has worsened. Last Tuesday I saw one of my GB Team doctor friends, now retired. Whilst he didn't examine me he feels that the problem is likely to be compartment syndrome. I had this in the other leg in the past and not treating it properly led to my Achilles op. Anyway I am seeing another consultant this coming Tuesday. He is also a friend/clubmate and another Team GB doctor for both athletics and triathlon. I need to rule out a possible stress fracture as well. Icing 6 or more times a day, and little else!

    I have both of those shoes, Muss, although the NB are still in the box. I found the Floatride (version 2) quite difficult to get used to compared to the Asics DS Trainers that I usually wear.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Good to get the consistency on, Muss.

    That's a shame, Alehouse. Hope it's not something a significant as a stress fracture.

    I've had a good consistent coupe of weeks also. Last week was 55m along with 3 pretty high end spin classes and some s and c sessions. A 10m MLR,and a 16m long yesterday which by the evening seemed to have disappeared from my legs.

    A tough session Friday over lunch of 2 x 5k at 10k effort, off 3 mins. First one came in at 18.40 and I felt really crap as the sun was out and I was drenched in sweat and no drink. Just as I started the second one some cloud came in and stayed for the first 3k making it much more manageable and that came in at 18.41.

    A couple of big sessions again this week but no long run Sunday as I have a local 10k next Wednesday evening. Pretty hilly course but it also doubles up a the county 10k champs so I am thinking a possible v40 top 3 might be feasible. Just depends who turns up on the night.

    In other news, me and a couple of mates picked up tickets for the Euro final on Sunday. Hoping it's England v Italy just for the scale of the occasion really.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Saw consultant, scan this pm so just waiting around. He believes it is tibialis anterior tenosynovitis. Rest, ice, massage, ice,  stretch, ice, anti inflammatories, ice. Etc.

    Enjoy Sunday, DT! One to remember, whatever happens!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear about the new injury Alehouse - hopefully the scan will show no major issues and just rest etc will get you sorted.

    DT - sounds like a great opportunity to be at the final! 

    Muss - hope you are still going along well with training.

    I am still basically benched apart from the occasional really short run. Have to say, I've now got completely out of the routine of running, which is making it even harder to start again. Have my second covid jab at the end of this week.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Any definitive diagnosis now, Alehouse?

    That's a shame, Andrew as you were just really getting going again when this kicked off. Hopefully it'll resolve very soon.

    Another tough session on Tuesday of 3 x 2k (90s), 1k (3 min) 2k reps at 10k effort and 1k at 5k effort. In real terms that translates into half mara pace and 10k, unless I've become less fit.

    10m nice and easy yesterday over lunch. 4m recovery and spin today, before a meaty tempo tomorrow.

    Sunday is setting up to be quite an occasion now. I didn't buy the tickets in the hope of seeing England in the final (they hadn't even played Germany at point of purchase), we just felt the chance to go to a major sporting final was a worthwhile experience so England being there is a massive bonus.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    No definite diagnosis as yet. Probably two weeks before I get the scan results. Seeing physio tonight though. Seems a little easier today but that is perhaps because I am doing very little walking etc.

    Sunday could be quite an occasion, DT 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    Yes DT, you're right - I felt in as good a shape as I had for a few years around about last September and then this bloody injury struck!

    The scan report was sent to my GP who I contacted and she has referred me to see a knee consultant and this appointment is now booked for the last week of July, so maybe I'll glean more from that. Fingers crossed.

    Hope the scan results are positive for you Alehouse.

  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, sorry to hear that. I've had tenosynovitis in my wrist before - I was advised that in general, if the problem is in the sheath rather than the tendon itself, that you don't need to be quite as cautious in the way that you manage it. But I guess there's the risk of overusing something else, so maybe better to just take it easier! 

    Andrew, is the knee flaring up again? 

    Training is going pretty well for me.

    I was in North Cotswolds in the early part of the week. Having been looking forward to exploring new scenery, in the end it turned out to be quite a disappointment. Lots of the public footpaths/bridleways are very poorly maintained and overgrown, running in the road feels like you're taking your life into your hands, and it's hard to find a route that's not just up and downhill! I didn't even find the countryside particularly enjoyable to be honest. I'm heading back a couple of times in the coming weeks - perhaps I'll have to be prepared to drive to somewhere to have a better run.

    Back home, and 16.5km this morning. 4x1km on, 1km off in the middle, as I didn't manage to fit a session in earlier in the week. The ons came out between 4:20-35 over varying surfaces/gradients etc. After a couple of reps, HR was a little elevated on the offs, but hardly got any higher on the ons despite being a good bit quicker.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    I hope you enjoyed the final DT. I'd really just hoped for a good match, unfortunately it didn't really deliver on that front, but Italy really deserve it after the tournament they've had. I'm distraught at the abuse Saka, Sancho and Rashford have had to endure. 

    26km long run yesterday for me, to make 68km for the week, almost 900m of elevation, in there too. Another long run that hasn't really left a dent on my legs.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Hope everyone is well?

    Good to have the knee consultant referral, Andrew.

    Sounds like you are moving along very well, Muss.

    As for the Euro final, it was great being at such a major event, however I am sad to say spoilt by the presence of the English. It would have been a far safer and more enjoyable experience had Denmark been there. What you may have read in the media has been quite under reported. My cat A seats, I had to stand on my seat to see. There were so many that had entered the stadium without a ticket the aisles were rammed shoulder to shoulder with those without seats, all of whom will also have bypassed security and covid checks, not to mention the H & S hazard if we had to evacuate.

    Local 10k last night. Tough course on a warm evening. We started in groups of 5 based on predicted time. I went in group 2 and initially got dropped but then once the initial frenzy settled I started picking lads off. The first half was pretty fast but I knew it had to be as the 2nd half had a fair bit of climbing whilst first half had some decent downhills. 

    Splits went 5.47, 5.46 and 5.43 and through 5k in about 17.45. At about 3.5 you start climbing and there's a 2k persistent climb. I had taken a few places by then and found myself in 6th (though due to the nature of the race someone could have started 3 mins after me but run a minute faster, won't know until results uploaded). 

    Splits suffered second half and I was hanging on with what seemed like climb on climb with Splits of 6.06, 6.09 and 6.03. I stopped my watch on 37.10 and 5.56 average pace so as long as the complicated manual timing set up worked (I'm not convinced how spot on it'll be) I'll have a 12 ish second pb. Not the sub 37 I'm chasing but there won't be many other pbs there. 

    It was also county champs so might be in with a shout of a v40 bronze and maybe a team medal. I was first back from our club but we had 2 others then about 80s behind me so might  be for a silver or bronze.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Disappointed that Sunday wasn't the greatest experience, DT. Stick to rugby and cricket! 
    Well done on the two silvers, if that is what you earned! Find a flat race soonish! Or does the Trafford 10k on 19th September fit? Perhaps too far. Certainly one of the fastest courses in the country and always attracts a quality field. 

    Training seems to be going well, Muss! Any races on the horizon?

    Not a lot to report here. Have upped the stretches but not inclined to test out the shin until I have seen the consultant on Tuesday. Could probably run but want to be certain that the tendonitis is unlikely to return. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Yes, it was a far cry from the rugby world cup final I went to in 2015, that's for sure!

    I definitely have individual silver, losing gold in a sprint finish which is annoying! I'll leave the 10k scene now until October onwards as I have a 20m race a week sunday then go on holiday for 10 days and after that just want to focus to London training.

    Off out over lunch for an easy 9, though may try and go on the earliest possible side of lunch to avoid the warmest weather.

  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Well done on the 10k DT. You've done well to PB twice in a row on tough courses/conditions. Great result with positions overall, too. 

    Alehouse, frustrating to have another issue. Fingers crossed that it clears up soon. 

    No races - I wanted to find a 10k, but it's going to be hard to fit one in around work and mara training, so I think probably nothing till after Brighton. I'll have a good go at parkrun next week, though. 

    On that note - is it silly to put in an effort on parkrun and then do a long run on consecutive days? 

    28km for me today. Hot out, so HR was a little high but that's to be expected. I got quite dehydrated in the first half, and didn't pass a shop until about 5/6km after I started feeling really thirsty. By the time I took on some water I think think the damage had already been done, so 20km onwards ended up being quite a struggle. I don't think the legs will recover quite as well today!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Saw consultant yesterday for results of scan. Nothing sinister but you could see a clear tear deep into one of the muscles at the front of the leg. He expects that it will be well on the way to healing now, so am allowed to run, albeit run/walk and keep it short for a few weeks. So ran 10 yesterday with a couple of breaks and 20 minutes today, with 4 walk breaks. Warm.

    DT: was at Old Trafford for the cricket v Pakistan yesterday. Little trouble, and what there was was genuine over-enthusiasm rather than unpleasant. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Ale - time to get onto all those ankle exercises, calf/tib raises! I need to give that stuff more time, I noticed such a big difference when I was doing a lot, and I've been noticing very minor left ankle issues come back when I run on uneven surfaces.

    I finally found a good running route where I was staying in the Cotswolds, and also went out to Stratford upon Avon for a good run. 

    I've been back home since Monday, and this week has been 5x1km off 2 mins jog on Tuesday (3:57, 3:49, 3:53, 3:52, 3:45), 7km recovery yesterday and 18km MLR this morning. It's taken a while but I think I'm starting to adapt to this heat - although of course as soon as we get used to it, the weather will change again! 

    I've decided I'll run my home parkrun course easy (quite a hilly route) this week, as the tail end of my long run. And as I've planned to take a bit of an easy week and a reduction in mileage next week, I'll take that as an opportunity to run parkrun hard next week on a flatter course.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Alehouse, good you can crack on an no complete rest required.

    Yes, these idiots only seem to darken footballs doors. The usual story is that they aren't football fans. I disagree, if hey were just a mob of idiots looking for a fight they'd turn up at other big events in other sports.

    Muss, sounds like things are moving well for you.

    I struggle in the heat, particularly with sleep so have felt pretty drained all week. Though the runs have all happened. Looking forward to the edge coming off on Saturday, which will be just in time for my 20m race on Sunday. Training in hot weather comes with benefits if you can get a race in soon after that period, so I am hoping that'll be the case on Sunday.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    All sounds good, Muss! Am I right, your local parkrun is CP? And where will you go for a quicker one? I recommend Dulwich or Burgess, that is if you are where I think you are!

    Bedford Autodrome, DT?
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, yes Bedford. Plan is to run it at 2.49 pace like I an to run London, so about 2.09. If I can manage that now over 20 and not be on my arse then bodes well.  
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    CP is my home course - about 1km to the start line. 
    Dulwich is just under 3km away, so still within a very reasonable warm up distance, although there's also quite a big hill to get over. Not very steep, just long!

    I move flat next month (fingers crossed), and my local parkrun will then be South Norwood (flatter, but uneven surface) - but CP will still be very close, and Beckenham Place Park will be a bit closer, too.

    I haven't made it to Burgess Park yet - I'm keen to do as many different courses as I can so will add it to the to do list. Battersea, Hilly Fields, Hackney Marshes and Royal Victoria Docks are all high up my list of parkruns to visit.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Well done today, DT! Within yourself?
    The female winner was very impressive!

    Did you parkrun at the end of the long run, Muss?


    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
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