The Middle Ground

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  • Suppose I should join in and update the calendar, couple of tasty looking smackdowns on the list image

    MIDDLE GROUND RACE CALENDAR

    July

    11th JP Morgan Corporate Challenge, Battersea - YoungPup
    11th Doncaster 5K - Hilly, BR, PRF
    11th Coad Cup 5m XC - Curly
    12th - Biggleswade Open 10,000m - PhilPub
    14th - SAL Fix 4, Croydon - 800m, 1500m - Simon
    15th Eccup 10M - Dr.Dan
    17th Ashton Open - 1500m - Simon
    17th - NYSD T&F 1mile Darlington - YD
    18th - Dorothy Hyman Club Mile - PRF, BR
    18th - Wroxham 5k
    18th - BMC 1,500m, Eltham - PhilPub
    18th - Club Mile - PRF, BR, Hilly
    22nd - Down Tow Up Flow HM - YoungPup, Curly
    22nd - Dereham 5K - BR, Hilly, forever, PRF
    24th - Stretford Open 1500 - PRF
    25th - Laxton 10k - Hilly, BR, PRF, YD
    25th - Rosenheim Fix 5, Tooting Bec, 800m, 3000m - Simon
    25th - BMC 5,000m, Coventry - PhilPub
    29th Saltburn 10k? Mr V
    29th - Leeds Xpress Tri (sprint) - Dr.Dan

    August
    1st - Yateley 10k - PhilPub
    1st - Spencers Arms Dash - PRF
    4th - Self Transcendence 10K, Battersea - BR, Hilly, PRF
    6th - Self Transcendence 3 x 1 mile relay, Battersea - Simon, Phil & Duck
    12th - Darlington 10k - MrV
    12th - Mid-Kent 5 mile - PhilPub
    13th - Blackheath & Bromley Open, Norman Park, 800, Simon & Duck
    14th - York Millenium Bridge 5K - PRF, YD
    15th - HydePark Harriers Mile, Leeds - PRF
    18th - Tooting Bec Open, ?, Simon
    19th - Birchwood 10K - BR, Hilly, PRF
    24th/25th - Yorkshire 20:20 Challenge - PRF, BR
    25th - Banstead Woods 19:00 Challenge - Ratzer
    27th - Greenwich 10 PuB Dash - Ratzer, Curly

    September
    1st - SAL Fix 5, Eastbourne, 800, 1500 - Simon
    2nd - Kent Coastal Marathon - YoungPup
    2nd - Ryedale 10m - MrV
    5th - Spencers Arms Dash - PRF
    8th - Sth Leeds Mile - PRF
    9th - Lake Vyrnwy HM - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, PRF
    9th - London Duathlon, Richmond Park - PhilPub
    9th - Wetherby 10K -YD
    13th - Club Champs 5,000m - PhilPub
    16th - Great North Run - PRF, YD, Mr V
    20th - Ron Hill's Birthday 5K - PRF
    23rd - Spen Greenway 10K
    23rd - "Kirkstall 7" (trail) - Dr.Dan
    30th - Horsforth 10K - Dr.Dan
    30th - Redcar HM - MrV
    30th - Bristol HM - Ratzer

    October
    7th - Chester Marathon - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, PRF
    14th - Great Eastern Run HM - PhilPub, MrV?, YD
    14th - Cardiff HM - Ratzer
    21st - Cabbage Patch 10 - YoungPup, BR, Hilly, PRF, Simon, Curly, Ratzer?

    November
    18th - Leeds Abbey Dash - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, MrV, YD
    18th - Winter Ballbuster Duathlon - PhilPub
    18th - Gosport Half - Curly, YoungPup

    April 2013
    Brighton Marathon - Curly
    VLM - Ratzer

    April 2014 - Boston Marathon - prf/Hilly/BR

  • I used the one Ratzer posted in my edit, please let that be the latest version!

  • I'll wait until the madness has stopped before re-reading and re-posting if necessary... image

  • MIDDLE GROUND RACE CALENDAR

    July

    11th JP Morgan Corporate Challenge, Battersea - YoungPup
    11th Doncaster 5K - Hilly, BR, PRF
    11th Coad Cup 5m XC - Curly
    12th - Biggleswade Open 10,000m - PhilPub
    14th - SAL Fix 4, Croydon - 800m, 1500m - Simon
    15th Eccup 10M - Dr.Dan
    17th - NYSD T&F 1mile Darlington - YD
    18th - Dorothy Hyman Club Mile - PRF, BR
    18th - Wroxham 5k
    18th - BMC 1,500m, Eltham - PhilPub, Simon
    18th - Club Mile - PRF, BR, Hilly
    22nd - Down Tow Up Flow HM - YoungPup, Curly
    22nd - Dereham 5K - BR, Hilly, forever, PRF
    24th - Stretford Open 1500 - PRF
    25th - Laxton 10k - Hilly, BR, PRF, YD
    25th - Rosenheim Fix 5, Tooting Bec, 800m, 3000m - Simon
    25th - BMC 5,000m, Coventry - PhilPub
    29th Saltburn 10k? Mr V
    29th - Leeds Xpress Tri (sprint) - Dr.Dan

    August
    1st - Yateley 10k - PhilPub
    1st - Spencers Arms Dash - PRF
    4th - Self Transcendence 10K, Battersea - BR, Hilly, PRF
    6th - Self Transcendence 3 x 1 mile relay, Battersea - Simon, Phil & Duck
    12th - Darlington 10k - MrV
    12th - Mid-Kent 5 mile - PhilPub
    13th - Blackheath & Bromley Open, Norman Park, 800, Simon & Duck
    14th - York Millenium Bridge 5K - PRF, YD
    15th - HydePark Harriers Mile, Leeds - PRF
    18th - Tooting Bec Open, ?, Simon
    19th - Birchwood 10K - BR, Hilly, PRF
    24th/25th - Yorkshire 20:20 Challenge - PRF, BR
    25th - Banstead Woods 19:00 Challenge - Ratzer
    27th - Greenwich 10 PuB Dash - Ratzer, Curly

    September
    1st - SAL Fix 5, Eastbourne, 800, 1500 - Simon
    2nd - Kent Coastal Marathon - YoungPup
    2nd - Ryedale 10m - MrV
    5th - Spencers Arms Dash - PRF
    8th - Sth Leeds Mile - PRF
    9th - Lake Vyrnwy HM - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, PRF
    9th - London Duathlon, Richmond Park - PhilPub
    9th - Wetherby 10K -YD
    13th - Club Champs 5,000m - PhilPub
    16th - Great North Run - PRF, YD, Mr V
    20th - Ron Hill's Birthday 5K - PRF
    23rd - Spen Greenway 10K
    23rd - "Kirkstall 7" (trail) - Dr.Dan
    30th - Horsforth 10K - Dr.Dan
    30th - Redcar HM - MrV
    30th - Bristol HM - Ratzer

    October
    7th - Chester Marathon - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, PRF
    14th - Great Eastern Run HM - PhilPub, MrV?, YD
    14th - Cardiff HM - Ratzer
    21st - Cabbage Patch 10 - YoungPup, BR, Hilly, PRF, Simon, Curly, Ratzer?

    November
    18th - Leeds Abbey Dash - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, MrV, YD
    18th - Winter Ballbuster Duathlon - PhilPub
    18th - Gosport Half - Curly, YoungPup

    April 2013
    Brighton Marathon - Curly
    VLM - Ratzer

    April 2014 - Boston Marathon - prf/Hilly/BR

  • Lol at us lot trying to organise smack downs and failing because we are all too keen image

  • MIDDLE GROUND RACE CALENDAR

    July

    11th JP Morgan Corporate Challenge, Battersea - YoungPup
    11th Doncaster 5K - Hilly, BR, PRF
    11th Coad Cup 5m XC - Curly
    12th - Biggleswade Open 10,000m - PhilPub
    14th - SAL Fix 4, Croydon - 800m, 1500m - Simon
    15th Eccup 10M - Dr.Dan
    17th - NYSD T&F 1mile Darlington - YD
    18th - Dorothy Hyman Club Mile - PRF, BR
    18th - Wroxham 5k
    18th - BMC 1,500m, Eltham - PhilPub, Simon
    18th - Club Mile - PRF, BR, Hilly
    22nd - Down Tow Up Flow HM - YoungPup, Curly
    22nd - Dereham 5K - BR, Hilly, forever, PRF
    24th - Stretford Open 1500 - PRF
    25th - Laxton 10k - Hilly, BR, PRF, YD
    25th - Rosenheim Fix 5, Tooting Bec, 800m, 3000m - Simon
    25th - BMC 5,000m, Coventry - PhilPub
    25th - Exhibition Park 5k - MrV
    29th - Leeds Xpress Tri (sprint) - Dr.Dan
    31st July - Morpeth 10k - MrV

    August
    1st - Yateley 10k - PhilPub
    1st - Spencers Arms Dash - PRF
    4th - Self Transcendence 10K, Battersea - BR, Hilly, PRF
    6th - Self Transcendence 3 x 1 mile relay, Battersea - Simon, Phil & Duck
    12th - Darlington 10k - MrV
    12th - Mid-Kent 5 mile - PhilPub
    13th - Blackheath & Bromley Open, Norman Park, 800, Simon & Duck
    14th - York Millenium Bridge 5K - PRF, YD
    15th - HydePark Harriers Mile, Leeds - PRF
    18th - Tooting Bec Open, ?, Simon
    19th - Birchwood 10K - BR, Hilly, PRF
    24th/25th - Yorkshire 20:20 Challenge - PRF, BR
    25th - Banstead Woods 19:00 Challenge - Ratzer
    27th - Greenwich 10 PuB Dash - Ratzer, Curly
    28th - Blyth 10k - MrV

    September
    1st - SAL Fix 5, Eastbourne, 800, 1500 - Simon
    2nd - Kent Coastal Marathon - YoungPup
    2nd - Ryedale 10m - MrV
    5th - Spencers Arms Dash - PRF
    8th - Sth Leeds Mile - PRF
    9th - Lake Vyrnwy HM - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, PRF
    9th - London Duathlon, Richmond Park - PhilPub
    9th - Wetherby 10K -YD
    13th - Club Champs 5,000m - PhilPub
    16th - Great North Run - PRF, YD, Mr V
    20th - Ron Hill's Birthday 5K - PRF
    23rd - Spen Greenway 10K
    23rd - "Kirkstall 7" (trail) - Dr.Dan
    30th - Horsforth 10K - Dr.Dan
    30th - Redcar HM - MrV
    30th - Bristol HM - Ratzer

    October
    7th - Chester Marathon - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, PRF
    14th - Great Eastern Run HM - PhilPub, YD
    14th - Cardiff HM - Ratzer
    21st - Cabbage Patch 10 - YoungPup, BR, Hilly, PRF, Simon, Curly, Ratzer?

    November
    18th - Leeds Abbey Dash - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, MrV, YD
    18th - Winter Ballbuster Duathlon - PhilPub
    18th - Gosport Half - Curly, YoungPup

    April 2013
    Brighton Marathon - Curly
    VLM - Ratzer

    April 2014 - Boston Marathon - prf/Hilly/BR

  • Oh sugar - I can't join in the August Bank Holiday fun and games as I'm spending the Bank Holiday weekend down on the south coast.... image



    Sounds like it could be a fun weekend of running, but I will be sipping champagne celebrating my wife's 40th birthday (and the last weekend of my taper for the marathon on the 2nd)
  • image plenty of races!

    Phil - true. No fretting, just feet up for a bit.

    God to hear Curly image 

    I had an 'assistant' with me today (who might be related to me) who got my final rep on video. Quality's not great though. Not the best rep technically-wise either IMO. 

    ...and it apparently doesn't want to show up so i'll link to it here.

  • looks fine to me but dont you get a lot more muscle soreness if you are doing your spint training in spikes ?

  • Nowt wrong with your form Duck, looking pretty rapid n’all.

    Nice one Dash, looking forward to finally meeting you. Am I pacing or racing?

    6x600m @ 3k with 1:30 recovery for me on the road tonight. Legs told me not to bother in the warm up, but I decided to plough on, glad I did session came out fine.

    2:00(5:24/m)
    2:00(5:24/m)
    1:59(5:21/m)
    2:01(5:27/m)
    1:57(5:17/m)
    1:56(5:14/m)

    Target was 2 minutes per rep, this is 10min 3k pace, or 80 seconds per lap if I was on the track. Good VO2Max session, will drop the recovery by 10 seconds next time.  

  • Duck, you are certainly shifting there, and you have a very nice start, but what I find most interesting is how much I think you could improve with some sprint coaching. What's immediately obvious to me is that you are not driving forwards as much as you could. It looks like you need to get up on the toes a bit more.

    Then again, your style actually reminds me a bit of Lemaitre and it certainly hasn't harmed him, so maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about.

    YD, great session, and it's always a good sign if you can knock the last couple out a bit faster. Any plans to race a 3k?

    It turns out I actually managed a 17:49.5 for the 5000 last night. In retrospect I am pretty happy with it and looking forward to getting that time down soon. I also managed a 2:13.8 in the 800, despite the 69 second first lap.

    Tonight's session was 5 x 400 @ 800 with 6' recovery; followed by 2 x 200 @ 800 with 4' recovery.

    Splits of 66, 64, 63, 64, 64, 32, 30 left me feeling pleasantly lacticky, if there is such a thing. Not bad after racing last night. I'm going to take the rest of the week easy and hopefully get a decent couple of races in on Saturday.

  • Looks like good form to me Duck.  Your legs are certainly turning over quicker than I can manage.

    Some nice intervals going on YD and Simon, especially after the racing.

    Had a truncated session myself, 3 x 1200, 400 recovery, for everyone else's 5, in prep for the 10,000 on Thursday. 3.49, 3.52, 3.50, not flat out but hard enough.  Half of the middle rep was done in some of the hardest rain I've known for some time.  What the hell is going on up there?  image

  • Simon – no plans for a 3000 race, I had one planned last month but picked up a bug so had to give it a miss. A shame as I would love to run one. I just picked 3k pace as a good pace to work my VO2max. Breaking 10mins would be my target based on 5k time, McMillan concurs.
    Excellent news on the sub 18 after the 800, shows how well your overall running fitness is coming on with this MD malarkey. Liking the pace on those 400s as well.

    +1 on Duck running like Lemaitre now you mention it.

    Phil – 5:10/mi, not flat out over 1200 reps, nice.
    Not sure about the rain but the Great Yorkshire Show has been cancelled today, and Yorkshire Farmers don’t give in to the weather lightly. Hope it clears in 3 weeks……..

     

  • Duckinatorification, I had to watch you on my phone because I can't see any YouTube in work, so I could only look at gross things.  Like, your hands are very low.  So I tend to agree with Simon, that you could come right down to my present level and show me up.  One thing the coaches I'm with are always looking at is the sprinting form.  They don't care so much if you're fast, which you are, but whether you're doing it right, because that's one of the limitations on how fast you could be.  Low hands = biomechanical issue with pulling them around, rather like swinging a long stick instead of a short one.  BUT, that said, if you have the power in your shoulders, then you'll get more drive out of low hands than high hands, as long as you can maintain your turnover, which as PP says does look good.

    My problem isn't the form, as the coach was complimenting me on it as the kids flew past me last night.  My problem is the turnover and power to weight ratio.  My legs aren't spinning as fast, or springing as powerfully as those around me.  Certainly one star flew past with a stride length about twice mine.  Anyway, managed 2x3x125, and managed to time most, starting feeling sluggish at 19.2, then 18.6, 18.8, 18.8, ??, 18.5.  I have to point out that self-timing is tough, and the 125 was hugely inaccurate as the group was wandering all over the place on the bend.  I think it was nearer 130-135 judging by the 150 mark.  So just call them all 19s for 130.  On a good day that should give me a sub-29 200. image

    Simon, lovely little understated race there.  And then to follow up with that lactate forming session.  You might be feeling it today?

    Hoping to get in 4-5 miles later.  Mileage has to creep up slowly...

  • Simon – Nice 5000 time, would be good to see what you could go fresh and flat out. How much quicker do you reckon a 5000 on the track is compared to a fairly quick road course?

    YD – Nice session. I reckon you would be sub 10 on a 3k track race. I’d really like to race one as well. I really enjoyed the 3k time trial I did on the track when I was in Portugal.

    Phil – Speedy session in the rain. The weather is ridiculous at the moment. I think I’ve seen more rain in the last month than I have in the rest of my 8 years in Newcastle. Normally it hardly ever rains here.

    PRF – Shame about the double parkrun. Are you sticking with Riverside for 9am then?

    I've been alerted to an open 400 track race next Monday. Hmmmm tempting......

    Race report from last night below.

  • An enjoyable and well organised 5 mile race last night, though the time ended up being slower than I had hoped for.

    It was a bit of a mad dash at the start and the narrow course meant I kept getting cut up by over ambitious starters. There was also lots of tight turns which slowed me down a fair bit. I was happy with 5.51 for the first mile though. The second mile had even more tight turns and it was messing with my rhythm. 5.57 for this mile. Mile 3 had a short hill and then a seemingly unnecessary section on wet grass. I struggled for grip in my flats and it was single file so I couldn’t overtake. It was then down a few steps and onto the 3 mile marker. A split of 6.01 but that was expected with the hill, steps and grass.

    I now hoped to make up some time as the remaining 2 mile which were flat and straight and no more of those pesky turns. However we were now running into a head wind I found myself suddenly isolated. I could feel my pace slipping away even though I felt ok. One guy was running just behind me but he wouldn’t do any work at the front. Half way through the mile a marshal shouted keep left so I went round the long path but looking behind everyone else went straight on. I’m not sure which was the correct route but it cost me a handful of seconds on those behind. Mile 4 was 6.07 and I now knew I had to pick the pace up to even go sub 30.

    The guy behind finally come up and ran with me then went past after a while. I tagged on for a bit and I picked the pace a little. But not enough as I crossed the line in 30 dead on my watch and 30.02 on the official results.

  • Phil, good pace. You must have been on your middle rep while I, and 50 other Croydon Harriers, were standing in the club house waiting for it to pass.

    Speedy stuff, Ratzer. What are the specific plans to correct your inadequacies?

    I am planning on getting some technique work in over the winter. If I don't then top speed will fast become a limiting factor in my 800s next year.

    Strangely I feel really good today, despite doing 30 minutes of circuits after the session as well. I'm definitely at or close to my peak for the year. The danger now would be hammering the training too hard which is why I am forcing myself to take it very easy until Saturday.

    Mr Viper wrote (see)

    Simon – Nice 5000 time, would be good to see what you could go fresh and flat out. How much quicker do you reckon a 5000 on the track is compared to a fairly quick road course?

    Hardly anything. Of course, you have the benefit of managing splits evenly on the track (or I could have had I been able to do the maths while running), but psychologically it was difficult to just keep going over the same ground.

    Great stuff in the 5-miler. Of course it must be incredibly frustrating to not get under 30 minutes, but it doesn't take anything away from a good solid bit of racing.
    I think I am going to organise a race with the following rule: if your first 400 is more than 15% faster than your average for the race you automatically get disqualified image

  • Mr V - was that the Tyne Bridges run?  It looked very wet too from photos I've seen.  Did you cross the river or was it all on the Newcastle side? 

     

  • Simon Edward wrote (see)

    I think I am going to organise a race with the following rule: if your first 400 is more than 15% faster than your average for the race you automatically get disqualified image

    I think you should! The most annoying thing was one guy who cut me up twice. He was breathing like a steam train after 400m. Now normally I wouldn't mind too much but I recognised him as the bloke who did exactly the same on Saturday at parkrun. Surely he realises that if his breathing is like that so early on he's gone off too fast....

    Minni - Yes it was. It was all on the Newcastle side. It was drizzle rather than rain and to be honest it was welcome to keep things relatively cool.

  • Mr V - A 30 minute 5 miler with soggy bits, twisty bits, steps and wind sounds like a thoroughly praiseworthy effort. And if you can do 30 minutes with a few obstacles in the way it must make you optimistic of a pretty impressive time when everything falls right.

    And yes to Riverside. It will be my 20th inaugural parkrun. Any guesses how many people out of the 191,759 parkrunners in the world have completed 20 inaugural parkruns? image If it wasnt for these pointlessly constructed tables and other people pointing it out to me I wouldnt care less, but once theres a table, well..............

    Simon - 17:49 after an 800 is very impressive. More to come on fresh legs?

    Oh, and good idea on the 15% rule. image (Although I'd probably go for the machine gun option as oppose to disqualification image)

    Phil - Looking forward to seeing how this 10,000 turns out tomorrow. I'm predicting 33:10.

    Doncaster town centre races tonight - apparently a speedy but not flat 5K. We will see.....

  • I don't know why people continue to do it and parkruns are particulary bad. I do remember pacing a guy at Nonsuch for 25 minutes and he wanted me to go through 2.5k in 12 minutes. I argued that even splits were better, and he said "No, I'm not tired at the start so I may as well go faster then". Logic.

  • Duck, I will be happy to be running. Having this week off so fingers crossed.

    That's a great effort Mr V all things considered.
  • Mr V - All sorts of BS adjustments available there, great race.  Seems like there are a few races going on this "Summer" which will be good prep for the XC season.

    prf - I'm not saying nuffin!  image  Enjoy the 5k!

  • As has been said loads of BS calc adjustments to be had, a very solid effort indeed Mr V. I would have thought you could convert that pace (and a bit quicker) over 10k on the right day.
    Does Saltburn 10k have a good rep? I have a mid week 10k in mind the same week, but if I cant make that one I might pop up to Saltburn as I fancy a crack at a quick 10k. There is also the Victorian 10k the week before.

    Interested to see how all this sprinting pays off down the line for you Ratzer. Are you going to drop the sprinting for more traditional distance work anytime soon, or will you maintain it over the medium or long term?

    I am also liking Simons disqualification rule, parkruns are particularly bad, but I see plenty of experienced runners getting sucked into starting too fast in local races. It has got to the stage in a few local races where runners have streamed by in the first half mile and I have found myself predicting (with some success I might add) at what point in the race I will be overtaking the same people as they blow up.

    Enjoy Donny prf, never thought I would find myself saying that to someone. You need to plant the parkrun seed while you are down there.

  • YD - I think the Saltburn race is a new one, though it does also say on the website that the course is known to produce fast times so maybe its being resurrected. I guess you'd be safer with Marske which we both know is pretty quick if its not windy.

  • MrV, nice race there.  Definitely worth a 24:xx on the version of the BS calculator that I'd like to use.  Do the 400!  I reckon it's the longest distance you can race and yet I'm masochistically desperate to do one.  All that time spent alone until the final straight, which you spend clinging on for dear life!  It's the longest, definitely.

    Simon, the major thing for me I believe is to keep doing the sessions as they are.  At the moment I can't overload them with anything else.  I put in a gym session or two, but have removed the plyometrics because the sum total is too much.  Running faster than easy leaves me with long periods of recovery.  So it's strength training, use the sessions to transform that into power, and hope turnover rises.  Once the sessions are easy I think I could turn to power and plyometric training again.

    YD, and combined with what I've just written, here is my confusion.  I want to race autumn HMs, so I want to edge my mileage back up.  But that will impact my ability to increase base speed.  So I'm thinking of entering the HMs for fun, and concentrating once more on a spring season culminating in the VLM.  I'll use the same training practices again, and hope that the speed has risen in order to give me a quicker starting point.  So 'down the line' is a good 8-9 months away!

    Statto, good to see you getting another pole position.  I assume you slowly worked your way to that spot after letting many other parkrunners shoot ahead of you for the first few inaugurals?

    Simon, that logic ranks alongside the advice I was given by a family member for the last marathon.  Loosely translated it was "Go out as fast as you can and then hold on for as long as you can".  I hesitate to say that this person has been running and racing for a few years now.

  • Probably a moot point Mr V, as I should be able to make the midweeker and that is flat, but good to have back up options. Though Saltburn has some steep old hills heading down to the beach......

    Ratzer - is there not a way of blending the two approaches without getting injured? (thats the reason for your caution, right?) I would have thought that if you structure your week with rest days in the right place you could maintain the speed sessions for the rest of the year, whilst introducing some more miles and HM specific sessions?

  • Thanks for the sprints comments (someone commented on the video with 'Dem legs!', was that you Ratzer? image). Yeah my arm action's not great - I need to practice it more! FWIW I have made tentitive inquiries to an established sprints coach up here but haven't heard anything back yet. 

    Interestingly when I run flat-out I'm up on my toes much more so I'll try and incorporate that into sub-maximal sprinting. I do think being fresh will allow more drive but also working on rear-leg extension too - perhaps leaning forward slightly as well?

    - no I don't tend to get sore at all. In fact I've felt sorer when I don't use spikes.

    YD, it's often strange how warmups suck yet the session itself is good. nice going.

    Christ Simon, you don't hang around! 69/64 is very strange for an 800 but you did well to run the time you did. And a good session to boot.

    Phil, your 10000 totally passed me by. Sure you're not going to get bored? 

    Mr Viper wrote (see)

    I've been alerted to an open 400 track race next Monday. Hmmmm tempting......

    Do it!

    It sounds like your 5-miler was almost semi-XC in nature so 30'02 is more than respectable. Very well done.

    prf, speedy but not flat? You might get DQ'd under the new 'first 400' rule image 

    My favorite 'setting off too fast' story was Forfar 10k last year - less than 600m in and a rather chunky gentlemen had run that first bit about 10-15s quicker than me was dropping back gasping like he'd just finished. I don't know where he finished, or in what time.

    Aberdeen parkrun's not too bad for fast starters, but the start is normally fast for everyone as you can get a bit bottlenecked in the first turn, so it's often advantageous to run the first few hundred a bit quicker than you'd like. When I finished 2nd at St Andrews there was a football top wearing runner who stuck with me through the first half mile and he finished in about 29 minutes I think.

    x-post about 400s... yes they really do hurt the final 100 but once you've run a few it becomes almost comforting. I know Saturday is going to hurt like hell but I know exactly what to expect. I also think 400 pace is on the of the best paces to run at to teach 'fast relaxed' mechanics (do what I say not what I do image). Yep, give it a go Mr V, you never know you may find you've got a hidden talent for sprinting. 

  • Afternoon! Blimey you lot chat a bit.

    Mr Viper a well run race, shame about those 3 seconds but you more than made up for them with the BS calimage definitely do the 400m, if just for the experience.

    Some good sessions going on - 3k reps from YD particularly impressive. Good self knowledge and "tapering" from Simon and interesting video from Duck - I would say a bit of coaching would help. A sprint coach would love you as you have turnover but need to polish the form a little. Oh and you are keen which always helps.

    PRF have fun at the inagural.

    Phil cant wait to see what you pull out at the 10,000m.

    Right COAD cup for me, 5m cross country in Richmond Park. A handicap race and I started with two others - one who beats me in sessions and one who has beaten me recently at parkrun so I knew I needed to get off fast. First mile also massively downhill, so I may have broken the 400m rule 6:47image Anyway catch up to the next two relatively early and notice my shoelace is undone. Brilliant. Get past 4 more people before I give up somewhere in mile 2 and stop to retie it. On a road race I would leave it, but it was so wet and muddy the risk of slipping on it was pretty high. Hit mile 3 and the uphills creep in here, but of log hurdling and i get passed by the woman who was in my group, but she doesnt pull away so I keep her in sight as a remote target.  The 4th mile (all uphill 8:01) and I am feeling the legs now, but she is not pulling away from me. 2 others pass me during this time, both fast runners who breeze off ahead. Last mile and its mostly uphill (7:38) but I am still passing people so keep pushing, 2 more faster runners go past as I hit 4.75 but they are 35 minute 10k runners so no hope of keeping with them. I am gaining on woman though and put in a sprint only to be defeated by a huge puddle right by the finish.

    Time 37:43 which is basically irrelevant anyway. Overall position by time 32, position by handicap 8th. Overall I am quite pleased, its a tough course, conditions were pretty dreadful, I dont have any type of trail shoes or spikes so ran in racing flats, I lost time while I tied my shoe lace and yet I kept pushing right to the end (something that has been lacking in recent races), and the wava for my time was 2% down on recent race wavs. I think this is the first race where positives have outweighed negatives for a long time. I confident I can blast the time on a road course too.

    8.65 miles cycled this morning and an easy 10 miler planned for tonight. image

     

     

  • Nice one Curly, especially hearing you were giving it full beans.  I suppose if the summer isn't going to bother showing up we might as well crack on with cross country!  image

    Duck - Boredom would be a nice enough mental state.  I suspect the demons in my head will be too busy for me to actually feel bored.  Ah well, bring it on!

    6.5M easy lunchtime.  That's me done till tomorrow.

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