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The Middle Ground
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I'm sure our paths must have crossed unknowingly at some point iower - I do many similar races to you through HRRL. Running for Winchester now so have gone from being a bigger fish in a small pond (probably in the top 5 of runners there) to oblivion in terms of rankings at the new club - positive in that the track is only a 10-15 minute jog away though!
Sounds like things were going well up to a point with PBs. About to run home from work actually best part of 14 miles (Southampton to Winchester) and not covered that distance in a while so should be interesting!
Good track session last night too....1,200, 800, 600, 400 (75 seconds between each), 5 minutes recovery then repeated the set again! Tried to make sure I didn't hammer them though in order to stimulate a stronger finish on the 400s (1,200's were at HM pace and worked up from there).
WJH I'm sure they will have, I do keep an eye out for your initials on the league tables among others i've finished around from other clubs. Will keep an eye out for you at Victory 5 if you're planning on running that one? Tidy reps there!
Another 5 @ 8:26/141bpm average this eve, feels pretty awkward running at this intensity, hopefully as I get fitter and the pace improves it becomes more natural!
Iower, good to see you still about. Dr Dan is your man for hr based training.
Wjh-Ditto over 5,10k and hm all my pbs are at least a year old now. My only pb in recent times are 5 mile and marathon and thats because I had never previously tried them.
Decent track session last night. was 2 x (4 x 1k) at 10kp off 90 secs. I aimed for 3.59 per rep but they all came in at 3.52-3.53 and that was with some easing back in last 100m. Didnt really register it at the time but the rep pace was actually faster than 5k pb pace. The first set of 4 felt pointlessly comfortable, the second set caught up with me a bit and got me breathing a little harder but didnt compromise the pace.
Having battled through a lower leg niggle, i now seem to have a slight injury. I slipped over in the street last week and jarred my hip flexor a bit. I had felt it twinging now and again, however I think last nights session aggravated it so now my upper quad and outside glutes feel like they ahve been strained.
Evening - quick one from me right now.
Celebrating having a UK record holder in the family tonight - mum ran 5:40.07 to break the UK V55 mile record by just over 13 sec. Even 85s laps throughout.
I ran 4:27.46 to finish 3rd in the 1500. Pb by just over 4 sec. 2:23 at 800m and kicked really hard on lap 3 (which has always been where I lose time). Gained 5 places and finished with a sub-52 last 300 (sub 4:30/m). Had a little left in the tank at the end but ran the race well.
Well done mummy Duck! (And Duck too!)
Well done to the ducks!
I had a good run out at the Darlington 10k this morning. Thankfully dodged the worst of the forecast weather and conditions were pretty ok all things considered. It is one of those rolling courses where there are no proper hills as such but there's virtually no flat either. It's modest ups and downs the whole way. Ended up running 36.51 which is a few seconds shy of a PB but a big improvement on last year's time of 37.35. Given my Abbey Dash time last year was 50 seconds quicker than this race I think I've got a really good chance of going sub 36 there this time.
Well done Duck, Mr V and the record breaking Mother Duck
2 weeks in the lakes during which time I logged 2 hilly 6 milers, lots of small walks (we do have a 3 year old), floating on lakes and ice cream eating (I managed to substitue with tea on at least half the ice cream visits!)
Back into it today with 11 miles in the torrential rain, struggled at the end and had really tight calves afterwards.
Looking good for November MrV !
Planning to get to The Lakes later this month Chubby.
20.4 miles with 5.1 at MP ... 15.3 mi at 9:07/m and 67% maxHR (3 x 5.1 mile loop ... 9:20/m, 9:09/m, 8:51/m) ... then a 4th lap at MP heart rate (sub 80%) in 38:42 - 7:35/m at 79% maxHR (138 bpm).
Well done Duck and your mum.
Mr v, looks like your in good shape. How old is your pb?
Good mileage Dr Dan. Rather you than me this am Cb.
Not much to report here. Not run since Wednesday s session. Got a strain in my hip flexor. Decided to cycle and do some body pump instead to give it a rest, though its no better. Got two cut back weeks now as the last 12 weeks have been fairly hard and was just feeling stale and shattered. Oddly what I see as a cut back week this coming week is pretty much how my first block of 4 weeks actually looked.
Dan – Nice long run there and good pace for the MP section.
DT – Hope the niggle improves quickly. I felt pretty knackered at about that point of coaching as well. Sensible that you have a couple of cutback weeks. I did feel when they coached me they worked me too hard and that I probably crossed the line to overtraining during that period
My PB is from last May so ages ago basically! I was fit enough to improve on it at last year’s Abbey Dash in November but had a poor run and missed by 1 second. I reckon I’m definitely back in shape to improve upon it now so hopefully that will be the case come autumn. Anyone know of any quick 10ks later in the year apart from Leeds? Preferably within reasonable distance of Newcastle.
Mr v- yes I was beginning to feel knackered. I did a straight 12 weeks training with five races. Its the threshold runs I find most difficult to recover from.
Easy 40 minutes at lunchtime then spin class after work. I did my first body pump class yesterday since Xmas and despite keeping my weights lower than I could handle, I am stiff as as board from neck to knees.
Got physio tomorrow to have a look at hip.
Howdy people.
Glad to see familiar names posting here still. I will have a read of recent posts soon.
I am essentially announcing my come-back
For those who do not know me, I used to be a slightly above average runner (1:20something HM). I had a big hip injury, which took me out for a year. I then got back into the best shape of my life running 90mpw and I had some pretty serious health problems, and was lucky to be able to run or whatever afterwards. I struggled for about 9 months with further health complications (but less serious stuff). I was pretty fed up with sucking at running so I got more into cycling, which I have been doing for a year or so.
But my heart is telling me to run. I miss the simplicity of it. The legs are staying shaved but my running comeback starts this morning. I am too excited to sleep lol!
I will be following a Hadd/Lydiard-esque principals and do the following:
Build to 60 mpw on singles
Add doubles and strides/hill sprints
Build to 100 mpw before the end of this year, hopefully
Get a coach :P
Good night!
My first comment Josh, get more sleep!
Afternoon folks, just popping in to say I am still around and doing a bit. Training going ok in general, had a great time in Scotland for the Commonwealth Games. I have a few races coming up, 5k in York tomorrow night, looks like Wardi & prf will be there as well. Got a 6k next week (a bit of fun) and a 10k at the end of the month.
Saw your name on the Darlo results Mr V, good result. As for faster 10ks, not sure there are any super-fast ones this time of year, Wetherby 10k is quick (I’m doing it). There are some good ones though, Yorkshire Coast 10k is a favourite of mine but it’s always windy, some nice low key 10k down this way, not sure what else to suggest. You might have to travel further afield I am afraid.
You have done the Brid Half havnt you? What's it like? I know it's not quick, just looking for a good half to do, not time chasing really.
Well done on the PB Duck (and Mother Duck)
Sounds like a good time for a cut-back DT
Good session Dr Dan
Good to see you Josh, and stick around. My first comment is take it easy! Don't rush anything! Slow and steady for months. Hope your health in general is ok: I, for one, was most concerned about you!
Gradually getting back into it after the hamstring injury cost me about 9 weeks (and 9 lbs). Everything is slow, steady, cautious (take note Josh).
Final Sale Sizzler on Thursday night if anyone is interested. We have 10 Olympians past and present lined up to be there. Also the club won the men's British Athletics League Premiership on Saturday.
TR - Thanks, I've got a 10 mile race on the date of Wetherby but I might do Scarborough again as I can always combine it with a trip home. I did run Bridlington once but dropped out a half way. First half was fairly hilly as I remember but I believe the 2nd half is predominantly down. Fairly pleasant rolling roads and decent organisation etc as far as I can recall. Good luck with the 5k tomorrow.
Thanks Mr V, that’s what I thought. Assuming I get a pass from the Missus I’ll do it. I actually fancy just racing a half for position rather than time trialling one and this sounds ideal for that. I can chase a time at the Brass Monkey if I so wish.
Josh, Alehouse makes a good point, take it steady.
Your plan is sound in principle, but you talk about hitting 60mpw, then working up to 100mpw. Why 60, why 100?
What is so special about these figures? Have you run this kind of mileage before and maintained it?
Bit of a running cliché but consistent consistency is where the long term results will come from. If you stretch to hit x miles by a certain date you run the risk of injury and further illness and will be inconsistent. How do you know now how your body will cope with what mileage and when?
As I said above, think the plan to build up to a decent amount of training running singles is good. I would then look to add in hill work and doubles, but not at the same time.
If I were you, build up in singles, then add in strides. Maintain this for a while and then add in hill work. Maintain this pattern for a while and once comfortable with the more intense work then look to increase mileage (slowly) by adding in short doubles.
But forget mileage targets, your target should be consistent training over a 6 month period and then re-assess. By consistent, I mean unbroken by injury and significant illness (colds and sore throats asside)
Josh, that does seem fairly lofty mileage ambition. What is the purpose behind that amount? To run marathons/ultras or simply to build the aerobic base?
Decent 4 x 8 mins at threshold for me last night. I did the same route etc as when i last did this session in May. Here are the paces and HR of each attempt-
May- 6.38 (164), 6.42 (169), 6.43 (169), 6.46(171).
Last Night- 6.34(166), 6.35(169), 6.28(172), 6.34(170).
Definate improvement. I was surprised how decent i felt to extent that I started likening it more to MP effort at one point. On the third rep I found myself running up a hill that normally knocks me right off pace, at 6.40mm. Four weeks sunday is my pb or die trying 10k. I am on a reduced week this week then a complete cutback to virtually no running next week, then two more weeks of serious effort before a taper week.
What's generally considered a decent amount of mileage Thirsk/anyone? I'm not being awkward by the way - i'm looking to build up my mileage slowly over the next few months or so (all easy, base building) but have no idea to what, 60mpw? 80mpw?
That's a lot of mileage indeed! Have you got any race targets in mind Josh? Sounds like you are chomping at the bit to get back into things!
Good session DT and nice improvement there. Had a bit of a brutal club session last night with 5x1k at threshold pace (on road/grass) with an additional 400 metres round the track at a hard effort (75 seconds recovery between each of these reps). Overall average pace came out between 6:00 (fastest being the 3rd rep) and 6:10 m/m (first and last reps at this pace being the slowest). Legs were like jelly but pretty pleased with the end result.
Talking of doubles, I have been using weekends for this mostly recently and feel it is definitely benefiting my overall endurance. Cutting back this week though before building back up again over the next two weeks.
I'm guessing that sort of mileage is probably only beneficial for the longer distances iower and sure you have that one worked out - 60mpw would probably be more beneficial than 80 at first i'd have thought but everyone is different and with their endurance levels and what they can physically achieve/benefit from!
Good 10k there Mr V and promising for November!
Good luck tonight with the 5k TR and good racing Duck - and to your speedy mum at that as well!
Evening all!
Mr V - looks a good result from Darlington, as you say a big improvement on last year so good progress seen.
Josh, welcome back, I think to begin with it may be best to run to time (10 hrs/wk is a really solid figure to aim for to begin with, over a time period TR suggests of 6 months or so) primarily until you are sure you can handle volume.
DT that is a great threshold improvement. Very impressive.
So Thursday - what an evening. For my race I had a vague goal to really attack lap 3 which is where I have lost the most time before.
Settled through lap 1 in 9th place in 71.0. Moved up another place and hit 700m still feeling great then really tried to blast the third lap.
800m in 2:23 and passed 3 guys right on the outside straight after. Was closing up on 4th quickly too and passed him with 500m to go and still feeling good. Third lap in 71.4 which was bang on what I wanted. Kicked past 3rd with 350m to go and maintained it to finish in a pb.
Felt good and had a little left at the end. Happy to have run that time off of base work!
Mum... well what can I say. UK record in the V55 category in the mile. 13s faster than 2nd. And her usual understated self at the end as well
Then Haddington Half on Saturday. Unfortunately I suffered from Thursday and the course was not indicative of a pb, along with some pretty strong winds!
Ran 82:29 which on its own is 5 mins off my pb, but I did A. Run a 30s negative split, B. Passed 8 people in the last 5k, C. Ran the final 5M 80s faster than the guys I had been trailing for the first 8M, and D. Beat a 76:xx HM'er, a 35:3x 10k runner and finished 21st in the East District Champs.
Legs did not want to play ball and I was having to grit my teeth from 4M in. Was dropped around 5M by two guys who I could not reel back in until 10M, when I put in a long surge on a gentle downhill and found my legs finally waking up.
Couldn't get the HR up into usual HM territory until the final few miles. Overall a bit disappointed to have traveled to Edinburgh for the race, but going off others around me probably worth a high 78:xx so not that bad really.
Afternoon folks.
What’s good mileage?
When I was running 40 miles per week I thought 50 miles was a lot, now I am doing regular 60 mile weeks with some 70 mile weeks 80 – 90 seems a lot. The point is, it’s relative. Steve Way is a mileage monster and regularly does 120, 130 even 140 mile weeks. Whereas Charlie Spedding, talks about his training leading up to his bronze in the LA84 Olympic Marathon and he was running 80mpw with some 100mile weeks over the winter in base phase, the 100 mile weeks nearly broke him. Who’s the better runner?
It’s fair to say I think to tackle a Marathon you want to be looking at 50mpw minimum, but is 50mpw optimal for most? Probably not. However, I don’t think your mileage should drop too much for distances of 10k and over and even 5k and over (though a bit more intense speed work for 5k might meant you drop the miles a little at first as you adapt) as they are all aerobic events and mileage is the best way to develop an aerobic engine.
So instead of saying, you should do x miles for y event, you should be thinking what’s the maximum amount of time I can put into training, how much can my body take without breaking down and then train to a point just below the lower of those two limits, making sure you have the right balance of easy miles, long run, speed, tempo etc, etc……
Duck, reads like a really well executed 1500 the other night, very satisfying no doubt! The half doesn’t sound too bad either and some good BS Calculator logic applied there, like it…
Your mothers performance is ridiculous, ridiculously good that is. Looking at the list, the lady in 2nd is impressive. 65 year old ladies have no business running a mile in 5:53!
16:58 for me at the Millennium Bridge 5k in York last night. It’s a twisty course, two laps round a lake and the park and then over the Millennium Bridge with about 1k along the river with another tricky little bridge to navigate with about 500m to go. My Garmin measured it a tad short at 3:08m, though others including prf, Hannah and my clubmate all had it spot on at 3.12miles. So my splits seem a bit slow: 5:25, 5:35, 5:31 + 5:08 pace for the 0.08m, ave 5:30/mi, whereas they should average 5:28/mi, but that’s Garmins for you.
Also had a bit of a wheezy chest at the finish, woke up with a sore throat and runny nose this morning, so all things considered I am pleased with the result. I think there is possibly a little bit more to come, though I was amongst the right people, only 5 seconds behind of my clubmate who has a recent 16:41 to his name and some other good runners from local clubs.
Hannah had a great run taking a big chunk, 35 seconds IIRC, off her best. Looking at the results there were lots of youngsters running quick times, one that stood out to me was 2nd place in the ‘B’ race, it was an U13 Girl who ran 19:23! That seems ridiculously good for such a young girl, future possible elite? Not sure how that compares with others at U13 level.
Also nice to briefly catch up with Wardi.
Thirsk good 5k and thanks for the obvious advice, does make sense really, and goes back to Moraghan's race the right distance idea. I had around 10 hours a week in my head as that's what i've been setting aside for triathlons quite comfortably (i'm at about 5 at the moment), so i'll probably go to time rather than setting arbitrary distance targets.
WJH - Good session there, looking quick.
Duck - Not too shabby there all things considered. Did you say Amsterdam was your big target?
TR - Excellent work on the sub 17. Been in the offing for a while so nice for you to finally nail it. More to come as well by the sounds of it.
Alehouse - Thank you
Great to hear from you again! Glad to hear you seem to be over your injury
Thirsk - I have previously built up to 90mpw, and was genuinely shocked at how easy that mileage felt. It does sound crazy to say it, but I am a strong believe in building a massive aerobic base.
Why 60? Quite simply it becomes difficult to run more than that without adding doubles (in my opinion/experience). Doubles help you improve a lot to overcome the 50-60mpw 'hump' that many people seem to struggle with.
Why 100? Purely because it is a nice number. I personally believe that running 90-120mpw is incredibly valuable. So I am choosing 100 as a target.
I know I can cope with the milage from experience. If anything, I have been less injury prone with more volume and less intensity. Of course I need to include intensity, but I do think volume can have some injury-proofing benefits.
That is a good shout on seperating strides and hill sprints. My past approach has to been very gradual. So while both will start at 60 mpw, my first hill sprint session will be something like 2* 8 seconds - so super conservative.
I agree about not putting a date on things. I will definitely be listening to my body, but in the back of my head I will be happy to do 100mpw by the end of the year. Of course I will see how things go - if I hit that naturally then great; if not, then no problems
Thankfully my illness had nothing to do with running (helped recover if anything).
DT19 - As I said above, mainly aerobic base and later transition to ultras.
Target distances:
2015 - 5k
2016 - 10k
2017 - 2018 - HM (I like this distance so want two years focus on it)
2019 - 2023 - Marathon
2023+ hopefully ultras if my strengths lie here
Things will change I am sure as time goes on, these are my initial thoughts
Duck - not a bad shout. Cycling is measure in hours too. May experiment. Congratulations to your Mum! I am sure many more records will fall in the future thanks to her
Re: miles per week:
I think everyone doing long distance running should try high volume (80mpw+). It really does amazing things for your aerobic capacity and running less than that, with higher intensity should be a 'back-up plan' if they cannot handle it. I cannot explain how amazing it feels to run that and find it comfortable - look forward to experiencing it again
Hi Josh, that's very impressive long-term planning. I like the idea of building a big endurance base and I've been thinking about doing it over the winter. It's not an approach I've tried before so it'll be interesting to see how it goes.
Work is so busy at the moment just fitting in 40 miles a week is a real effort. Last night was 2k x 4 at LT pace with 400m jog recovery, a real slog. Track repeats are really dull! I started to fantasize about being a 100m sprinter but I think I've left it too late...
A big
to Mother Duck and Duck, TR and Mr V.
Josh, like velloo I agree that a big aerobic base is always going to be beneficial, and I know what you mean about having to introduce doubles when getting up beyond 60 miles, it’s something I have found also. No reason why you can’t introduce strides earlier btw, no need to wait till you are running an arbitrary mileage figure, as long as you do them properly and keep them relaxed they are not a particular injury risk beyond easy running IMO. Do them on grass that will help also.
I am not saying running 100 mpw is bad, the opposite, if you can handle 100mpw without getting injured you will get fit no doubt. What I am saying is don’t put a figure on it now when you are just starting out again, just think in terms of building up slowly with singles, introduce strides, introduce quality, then introduce doubles in that order and see where it takes you.
Iower, good shout with the training for the right distance thread, reading that should be a pre-requisite for signing up to the forum IMO. Anyone got a link handy?
I got cramp in my calf when lying in bed after the race on Wednesday night, it was fine all day yesterday, no problem at all on my easy lunchtime run but this morning it’s quite sore. Cramp DOMS maybe?
5 miles easy for me last night, lower left leg was a bit sore and still a bit tender now but I'm hoping it was the lack of warm up right before a steep uphill start that triggered it. I've a history of shin and lower leg pain so I'm extra wary of this sort of thing. Feels better after a walk this morning and I'll try a couple of miles (flat this time) easy to try and loosen it up again.
Iower - Go easy on the niggle. Do you suffer from tight calves at all?
TR - Yes I reckon it could be that. I've had similar after cramp.
Velloo - Good session. LT work is always tough.
Decent session tonight of 3x2 miles @HMP with 2 min recoveries. Average pace of session 6.08s. Eased into first block and picked pace up over second two. Felt nice and controlled throughout though was starting to wok hard in last mile. Hopefully I can be close to that pace come GNR in a few weeks time.
Hi Josh - welcome back and take it easy building up mileage - listen to Alehouse!
Duck well run and a good result given that your legs weren't in it and the conditions. Another time...
Good result TR. Parkrun seems to be responsible for a new generation of fast youngsters. An 11 yr old girl just ran a 7:09 2k junior parkrun!
Good track session Velloo - it's never too late!
Looking good for GNR Mr V.
Birchwood 10k this morning. A target was PB, B target was sub 45, C target was finish and get the luxury bath towel! Is was very wet and windy early doors so much so that when the time came to get out of the car for my warm up I considered snuggling back down for another half hour and just going for the C target!
Rain stopped before the start and I got my sunglasses out! It was still very windy though. Miles 1 and 2 went well and I thought that I may be on for a pb, but the wheels fell off in mile 3, and it was a struggle from there on! I'd like to say I didn't take it to the well, but when I tried to pick up the pace over the last few hundred metres there was nothing there!
44:15 (25 secs outside PB), and the BS factor says the wind and undulations were worth at least 26 secs! I'm happy with that considering the lack of consistency recently, and my pb will get slashed when proper training resumes in September.