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The Middle Ground
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Looks like some good running WJH, though I don’t approve of you finishing a mile race not gasping on the ground
DT – getting there in one piece is more important than cramming at this stage, tick-over workouts are the order of the day I would think.
Good workout Mr V. Regardless of exact paces as long as you ran roughly HM pace and picked the pace up, it will have had a positive training impact. Good work. I might nick that session. If you were concerned with hitting the paces as prescribed, then 2 x 15 mins with a short jog recovery between might make it doable.
8miles for me last night, it was a real struggle, breathing poor due to sore throat/cold combo and just felt leggy the whole way. I don’t feel ill at all, completely fine sat here now, probably just one of those runs, hope things pick up for the weekend!
My leg stiffened up over the course of yesterday afternoon so by last night it was almost back to square one. I was pretty pissed about it having one of those 'whats the point' moments.
Cycled in today. Like you TR, I still have the remnants of a cough and its worse first thing so all in all it was an unpleasant journey. Plus i wrongly assessed the outdoor temp and over dressed. I am seeing physion again Friday so will keep off the running until then. In the interim I have bought some deep heat 'heatpads' as physio said its a small muscle and I need to drive bloodflow to it.
Mr v- That is the biggest frustration with these garmins. The amount of times I have been getting ready to set off and realised my garmin wont have enough charge. Hopefully you got close to the right paces.
Well I'm just going to add to this thread's tales of woe. Was out on a long run, about midway through my calf felt a bit sore but I stretched it and thought it was ok. There was a cafe nearby so I spent my emergency bus money on a massive big strawberry icecream, looked at the sea for a bit and started on the return journey. Five miles from home, bang! Crippling pain in my calf and a sad semi-jog, leg dragging journey home. Luckily its only a grade 1 tear so should heal quickly...
Get well soon TR+DT19!
Unlucky with the calf Velloo hope it heals quickly!
Frustrating times for you too DT, good luck with the physio on Friday. As for races coming up, a few half marathons (Bristol and Cardiff) and the Cardiff 10k beforehand with its revised route because of the NATO summit!
Took your advice quite literally Mr V, ran the Lakeside 5k tonight after not managing to make any of the other races in the series this summer. Had a minor panic an hour before when stuck in Southampton thinking I'd miss this final race but once on the motorway managed to get there with plenty of time to spare and get a decent warm up in. I always race better in the evenings and there were good signs beforehand which included a fairly effortless 6:47 min mile.
Race started and there was a little congestion at first but in some ways that's a good thing in preventing too quick a start. Overall, everything was pretty much in control despite recording 5:37 for the first mile. The effort levels soon started to hurt a fair bit more after that and it was a case of trying to hang on. It felt like I was just about able to maintain any running form though and recorded the second and third miles at 5:58 and 5:59. The last 600 metres or so were a struggle running directly into a keen breeze. Not strong enough to effect things too much but enough to notice and curse it a little! Legs were really hurting at this point (not so much the breathing) and clinged on for 6:06 min mile pace for the last 0.18 miles for a final time of 18:41 roughly (but at an overall recorded 5:52 average pace). Had no idea about anyone else recording this course as slightly long but definitely think it was since the previous route used over recent years was also a little long (with one or two also noting this previously). With that in mind, it seemed the time could have been 20 seconds or so faster at one point until the 400 metres to go sign came in sight! Hardly worth complaining about though and should be happy that it's a PB at one of my least favourite distances by 4 or 5 seconds (18:41 roughly). Also felt it must have been a good run as I was finishing close to people who are normally a fair bit faster and finishing ahead of other runners who normally have slightly faster or similar times. And TR I did collapse on the ground at the end of this one!
Definitely think recent training and structured sessions at the (now not so new) club are starting to pay off and have had one eye on a few half marathons in particular coming up so confident of threatening a PB in one of those over the next few months!
Nice work wjh. How old was that pb?
Velloo, bad news. I hate that slog home when you know you are doing more harm each step.
I'm home alone tonight so had a good bash at stretches, heat/ice and foam rolling. Hopefully I will wake up limber and sprightly!!
Fantastic WJH, sounds like the training is working. A big melodramatic collapse is also good, shows you've put everything in to it! Do you have a time in mind of the HMs?
DT it was my own fault for eating the bus fare. Sounds like you've had a good evening rolling around the floor. I went to pilates and as usual got singled out for being a runner, you'd think I was quadriplegic the way those bendy people go on about it!
Wjh, I did Bristol in 2012. It was my first race as a regular runner. If the conditions are good you'll make your time on the out and back on the portway.
Velloo, yes I don't normally get this much unhindered time in the evening to mess about. Never tried Pilate's. I assume I would get hideously found out!!
Thanks Velloo! Would love sub 1:25 but think that is a stretch target for sure. Got a bit of time beforehand though to try and improve the fitness but 1:25 or 1:26XX might be more realistic. Feeling that my stamina on longer runs is the strongest it's ever been at the moment and think doubles on Saturday and Sundays are helping with that.
I was there too That day DT and ran 1:35 dead on! The route along the causeway was very enjoyable actually, but that's more the case being that it didn't account for the last 3 or 4 painful miles!
Previous 5k PB was from April last year.
Time tonight confirmed as 18:42, just a bit gutted it wasn't a little faster in some ways but its a much better place than 2 months ago (Wyvern 10k ducking under 42 minutes) so need to keep that in mind.
Yes it does get a bit protracted towards the end. I particularly enjoyed being taken to touching distance of the finish at about 11 miles! I did 1.27 that day. Be very surprised if i matched that right now.
WJH - Well done on the PB, sounds like a really good run. Never be disappointed with a PB as you never know how long you might have to wait until the next one!! Though I'm sure in your case it wont be long.
Velloo - Bad luck there, nothing worse than getting injured a long way from home. Did laugh at your comment about eating the bus fare though
Just after a bit of advice. I’ve get a 10 mile race on Sunday, then the GNR the weekend after and just wondering what to do between the 2. I can’t run Tuesday so I’ll have to do any session on the Wednesday. Would people keep it light as opposed to a full blown session? Everything else will probably be easy with strides chucked in at various points to keep the legs turning over.
Hope all injured are recovering!
Managing a reasonable block of training (famous last words! ) although it is all slow, deliberately. About 50k a week for the last few weeks, which is a fair amount for me these days.
Mr V- If you are racing the ten miler and plan to do very well at gnr I would simply see how you recover. For me personally, it would take me until Thursday to feel like doing anything faster than easy, and by Thursday on a hm week I would be looking to taper right off.
You're a fair bit younger than me though so likely to recover quicker.
Physio for me this am again. Did some deep massage in the key area and heavy stretching. He cant find anything wrong beyond muscular strain so a bit confusing why its not going away.
Probably have a rest today to let my body absorb the treatment then do some bike work on weekend.
Question of my own here with my target 10k now only 2 weeks sunday and having not run in 2 weeks...Can cycling/spinning maintain my running fitness for a few weeks? I really felt from LT runs I was in pb shape 3 weeks ago.
Stormin run the other day WJH, well done, sounds like there is a bit more to come as well if the course was long.
As for HM, sounds like you have your sensible head on re: targets. If you say your endurance is good right now and your speed is good from recent 5k PB, I would look to bridge the two with threshold work (10m – HM pace). Traditional tempos are great for this IMO, 4m at 10m pace, 5m a bit faster than target HMP or 10k at target HMP are great sessions and will tell you if your target is realistic.
Fingers crossed for the calf velloo, I never take money on runs, probably should, but I live in the sticks so there are no busses!
Mr V – what Alehouse says, unstructured fartlek, mostly stride efforts with a few slightly longer efforts (say a minute) interspersed to get the HR up a bit, but not too many. I’ve done 10k 10m and 5m 10m on consecutive weekends and have done very well both times but have kept the mileage and quality light between the two. If you get it right, you should be bang on for the GNR, I found the first race sets you up for the second very well.
DT, I am sure the bike will help maintain aerobic fitness, not sure about running specific muscular fitness. Maybe step machine or a Nordic ski type machine might be better? Hopefully you can get back to doing easy running soon, if you can do harder efforts on the machines for safety.
After a horrid run on Tuesday I had better runs on Wednesday and Thursday, rest today, still have the cold/sore throat but its much better, should be ok for Sunday. Problem is a family trip to a Zoo/Theme park tomorrow, so a day on my feet, hardly ideal the day before a target race. Luckily the race isn’t until 2pm on Sunday so I should have time to get my feet up.
Well the problem I have is when I eventually commit to taking time out to make an injury go away I like to make absolutely sure otherwise you find yourself back to the start.
Two weeks since last run. Last time I had a lay off was the day after half pb for 4 weeks. I did loads of spin in that time, got green light on the Friday to run and did my third ever fastest 10k on the Sunday. Probably a bit risky going head first in but got away with it. I'm planning another week off then easy runs and hopefully make planned 10k.
Tr, my cough has gone but still very nasal. What race is Sunday?
Fartlek is something I need to do more of too, good advice Alehouse.
Cheers TR and will definitely be looking to take on board some of that. Those sessions although hard are something I'm looking forward to. Club sessions are now also starting to focus on hill work so will look to get some of that in too. Another good indicator over the last few years ive found has been to tap into HMP 9-11 miles into a longer run of 13 miles or so. Good luck with today's race and hopefully the zoo and theme park trip hasn't tired the legs for it! I certainly find time on feet walking always leaves me tired!
You may indeed have the current base and quality work having an influence by the time the 10k comes round DT! Be good to get some running in before it though to tick over as you say.
50k a week us a much better place to be Alehouse to where things were. Good to see a steady build up there!
Had a dire Parkrun yesterday. Combination of reasons for it I guess, legs a bit tired from recently (including Wednesday maybe), trying to start off at a similar pace to Wednesday albeit 10 seconds a mile or so slower 5:50 m/m) on grass at 9am, trying to keep up with a few who are clearly in a different league, complacency, etc. All this combined for a torrid remaining 2 miles where I contemplated stopping at one point. Was also possibly a little complacent too after the last few weeks. Final time of 20:04 following miles of 6:32 and 6:41 (6:22 last bit). Could have threatened last weeks course PB if i'd have stayed sensible but alas not! Good to have a run like that every now and then though to keep things on a level keeping and did think that 6:42 m/m roughly could be a worst case scenario last few miles of HMP if I started too fast for such a longer distance. So not all of it was a waste in terms of those thoughts! Ran a further 6 late PM (8.5 yesterday morning in total) which is less than the Saturdays over the last month generally where weekends have had a lot of doubles (8/10 in total with a further 15/5 on the Sunday) so it's obviously catching up a bit. Will be glad for a cut back this week coming in the lead up to a 10k next Sunday!
WJH - Those bad days happen- best they happen in a park run and not a race. Your earlier 5k shows you are in good shape so hopefully you can carry that form into your 10k next Sunday.
DT - Fingers crossed you make the 10k ok. A bit of a break like that can sometimes work out in a race like it did last time. Given the fitness you must have banked with all that tough training I think you've got a chance of running a quick one.
I had a shocker today in my 10 mile race and would have dropped out had I not had to get to the end some way or another. Tough course and hot which may have paid a part but nonetheless doesn't explain why I ran quite so badly. I'm not too bothered as it wasn't a target race but it has now raised a question in terms of how I approach the GNR next week. I was hoping for a good run which would give me an idea of the kind of pace I could do for a HM. I figure I'll probably just ignore today as too bad to be true and go with my original plan. There's a group form the club setting off at roughly 6.10s. So the temptation is to go with that but I do feel rather less confident about if after today!
MR V - running without the watch can definitely do you some good. But I must admit, there feels like there is nothing worse than a flat garmin battery. Disregard the bad race. Your real race is the GNR. For me, psychologically, it is hard to run fast when you know that the work for the target race is done. It sounds like that is the same as with you
Velloo - that does sound rather odd to happen on an easy run. Did you change anything about your shoes or routine recently?
WJH - well done! Your pacing strategy is the same as mine for 5k: run hard and pray for it to be over soon. And it really does take time to recover from hard efforts. Don't expect to be fast again for a week or so in my experience.
This week I did 30.5 miles at 8:29min/mile and 162 bpm average. Would have been a bit slower with a lower HR, but went on a run with a friend which got a little competitive.
Next week I will be adding strides and running 33 miles in the 150bpm range. Everything still comfortable and it is tempting me to increase mileage faster than 10% per week, but resisting that temptation so far. I was going to add strides this week, however my calfs were a little right at the start so skipped them. In hindsight I probably should have started them this week like TR said.
Do people here include strides in their weekly mileage totals or is that 'cheating'?
Josh definitely count strides in mileage! Take it easy, your calfs will get sore on the way back, just make sure you look after them, stretching foam rollering etc... Don't push the miles too much either. Good progress.
sounds like you can maintain on cross training then DT, that's useful. Today was Wetherby 10k, see below.
Forget the poor parkrun WJH. the big race has been and you have bigger fish to fry now.
Hard lines MR V, hard work in the heat today. Just chalk it off to experience and smash it next week. Too late for doubts now.
35:16 and 8th place at the Wetherby 10k for me today. That's a small PB but it won't count as it's a MT course, basically 2k continuous off road + a few bits of grass and other bits of gravel track here and there. Very warm today and a bit breezy, it felt pretty uncomfortable in the heat, plenty were stopping and walking, I also heard someone collapsed and needed an ambulance. Luckily I got involved in a race and other than looking at my watch at half way (17:28) I ignored the time. Took two decent scalps, one guy who beat me at my recent 5k pb and another fella who has been under 34 before and is a regular low 34 min 10k runner. So a good days racing and pretty satisfied with the outcome, sub 35 can wait till a faster race in cooler conditions.
Josh: what TR says! Slow is the new fast!
MrV: sorry things didn't go to plan. Have you done GNR before? Can't remember. Only done it once and I found the first 4 miles or so a nightmare as it took so long to get into my running: in fact the first 10k was slower than the last 11. The slow start did help with pacing in a way as there was never a danger of going off too hard and I was able to stick the boot in for the next 8 or 9 miles.
TR: well done! And you can definitely go much faster on the right day/course.
End of month stats: exactly 200k run, all slow. Highest total for many a year, I suspect. Now to gain strength through the slow running and try to remain injury free. Hamstrings are still tight though! May include a few strides, and they will be included in my totals. Nothing too fast or too long though.
Tr- well done...sounds like you need the abbey dash (I think your in that?) To come soon.
Mr v- it happens...I would pretend it never did in terms of planning next Sunday.
Wjh- equally, midweek will still be in your legs. Also if you are not a morning person....running at 5k pace at 9am is tough. In fact it got me thinking. My half pb came in a midday start and 10k at 10.30. Generally in life I'm a night owl. Therefore maybe I should find a 5k with an evening start. I did two 10ks in July. The hardest of two was 7pm start and I did it 20 seconds quicker.
Anyone else got any stats around their body clock and race performance.
Alehouse, thats a decent set of mileage there for the month. Fingers crossed you can keep building.
I'm feeling ready to run now....however I'm thinking that having had two weeks off, let's just make sure and have a week of decent spin and cycling then get some easy runs in from say Saturday with perhaps some strides/fartlek as per alehouses suggestion at 10k pace once I've got a few runs in and hopefully turn up at target race feeling OK.
Alehouse – I’ve run it a few times now and never had a problem with traffic. Last year they added a generously titled ‘fast paced club runners’ zone and I started there. It was a fairly small zone and only half full so a very smooth passage at the start. I’m in there again so it should be fine. But you are right, if you get stuck in the wrong zone you are in for a frustrating race!
TR – Excellent running in tough conditions (I see Run Britain gave it a 1.6 which suggests a pretty slow course/conditions). You’ve been recording some good finishing positions as well recently. No doubt you’ll be sub 35 and then some very shortly.
DT – Yeah I generally prefer later or evening races. I definitely feel like I run better though not sure if results reflect that.
The upside of running badly yesterday is that my legs don’t feel half as bad as they might do. Will definitely be following advice and taking this week nice and easy. There were some cracking results from some of my closest club rivals at various races yesterday so I need a good result to avoid falling behind!
Cheers Alehouse, sounds like progress for you.
Thanks DT, yea I am in the Abbey Dash, though that’s not till November. I go on holiday on Saturday for two weeks, so training volume will drop a fair bit this month, XC season starts in October and maybe I’ll do a pot hunt race or a raced parkrun as I build up towards the AD.
I haven’t noticed much difference in my performance between morning and evening races, though I am a reasonably early riser, typically I am up and about most days by 06:30 so I don’t have an issue getting going for a race early doors. Though there are plenty people who say they race better in an evening.
Good news that your legs are recovered ok Mr V, should leave you fresh for next Sunday. Not sure about the ranking thing, how does it work?
TR- Your statndard pb course in pb weather is usually rated anying from 0.0 to 0.5. I would say something with a 1.6 is worth a good 45 seconds on a 0.5.
Whats the time cut off for the club runners zone, Mr v? They do something similar in brum but you have to put on your entry a time sub 80. Likewise that was half full and just behind the elites. Quite a few of my club mates clearly made up times and got in there and then ran 84/85!
Hello!
... 3 weeks of August have been in a tent, so not been very active on the interweb. I see some great race performances from TR and WJH, some great mileage from Alehouse, but some injury woes from velloo and DT. Good luck with GNR MrV!
August came out at 186 miles with some good long runs and MP/LT work thrown in, plus 42 on the bike during my one week at work. The monthly mileage total was scuppered as the only run this week (due to 3 days hiking in the Lakes) was yesterday's 11.5 mile leg in a team trail relay race (Leeds Country Way). I was the faster runner of our pair, so it wasn't flat out for me (partner was suffering for last 5 miles) ... came out at 81% maxHR, so I'll put it down as a subLT/MP session.
TR – As DT says anything up to 0.5 is PB course/conditions. If you are PBing when it’s over 1 then you are flying! I think it bases it on the performance of everyone who ran relative to their PB or other races times. So it takes into account conditions, etc as well as the course (i.e. the same course may well rank differently each year). I’ve always found it tallies pretty accurate with my perception of how hard a course was. Parkruns are the exception as most people don’t race them it therefore ranks them as harder than they are.
DT – Yeah the same I think. I believe 1.20 for men and 1.30 for women. Again they go off your predicted time and don’t check as obviously I haven’t run sub 1.20 (yet!!)
Dan – Good to see you back. Still a pretty decent months mileage, even if a little down on what you wanted.
Essentially if the majority of people ona race are say 10% down on what their rb handicap says they should run a 10k then it will assume its a hard course and rate it appropriately. As mr v says, it assumes that in every event, every participant is performing to their max, therefore parkrun is often rated with a higher degree of difficulty than it really is.
whats your current hm pb?
Dan- wondered where you had gone. Looks like a reasonable month.
Spin again for me tonight. Should get there early enough to get a steady 30 minutes cycling in pre class which means i can hit the class in full flow. Desperate to try a little run but will avoid temptation. I know it doesnt feel 100% just now, however sometimes you need some gentle running on these things to progress it in my experience.
Hi all
A quiet couple of weeks running wise following Birchwood. Started back into it this morning with 10 miles - 10x800m with 1 min recovery. Efforts were slow but it'll come!
Enjoy spin DT.
That's a hefty session cb, 10x800 within a ten miler!!
Spin went well in that in the standing climbing tracks no pain in in jured area. Essentially standing and run climbing on a spin bike is like a light version of running.
Chubby - Nice session there.
DT - Glad injury feels ok and I agree that light running can definitely aid recovery. PB is 83:52 ran when rather ill at last year's GNR. Should therefore be pretty easy to beat although I'm slightly concerned I'm coming down with something again. I get ill every year at GNR time so its not surprising. Edit: Just realised I ran 84:11 three years ago, so I've got hope I've improved at least a minute per year!