Sub 3h15



  • marrowsmarrows ✭✭✭

    Nice PB Joolska!

    GM - sounds like you are getting lots of things right.

    Minni - massage on the beach? You lucky so and so.  As for uni choice, Lucy Gossage (pro triathlete) wrote a piece about how Cambridge was the best place to train because it's full of 'type A' personalities to train with, and the lack of hills is offset by fierce winds. Can't find it now.

    Leslie - good luck with the doc.  Once i went to GP in search of lost speed and was rewarded with 60-90 secs per mile in pill form (I had iron deficiency anemia); hope you are as lucky!

    Abbers - out enjoying yourself in the woods again, goodo

    I hoped for SuperLegs this week after a couple of weeks solid mileage and a weekend off running, but they're sluggish.  Too much cake, posy-toting, and dancing in the course of bridesmaid duty, maybe? 9M with 7 at MP on Monday felt tough, and I was off the pace for 6x800m last night despite taking extra long recoveries.  Boo. I must get my training in early this week, because Sunday is RideLondon 100! Am interested to compare to last year when I had been cycling more, but was a worse runner.

    This week's soporific bedtime story is DANIELS' RUNNING FORMULA.  Zzzzzz.

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    Gerard- good running and nice see old running friends image

    Abbers-no lucozade or guinness although the doc did prescribe antibiotics for a chest infection so I will be taking up a space on the bench for a week or so.

    Minni - more big runs needed for that hip then.

    Marrows -after 7 at mara pace id struggle with 6x800m the next day too .


  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Minni - Are you in Spain? Yes, wee Seb is No.1 in my book.

    Marrows - What is MP for you? I have no idea what it is for me as both marathons I have done have been sh1t. Even if I were to say pick a number like 7:15mm pace, I could knock out 7-10 of them no problem, so when I was training for my now cancelled marathon I had no clue whatsoever what MP should be. Still none the wiser going into the next campaign. I may aim for a big Spring marathon but that's obviously the farthest thing from my mind right now.

    Leslie - Hope that clears up soon.

    Off out now with my boy, rained most of the night but looks like it might clear this afternoon and should be warm again. Will be up for a run later.image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    GM - yes I'm in Spain, South of Barcelona at a town OO recommended. Thank you btw OO - it's perfect. Spent some time in Barcelona too and my parents are flying out tonight for a few days with us. I'm looking forward to that, kind of.image I've been enjoying some nice warm runs for a change.
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Minni - It's lovely over, there enjoy! My sister is over there with her family at the mo and they are having a blast.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Minni - sounds like you're having a fab hols, combining the sight seeing with some warm weather training. Just what your hip needs to help it along. Enjoyed Barcelona when we went there for a long weekend 5 or so years back.

    OO - you've been running well, so an easy week and then build up to GNR should see you in decent form. That's an impressive attendance record you have!

    Leslie - the diagnosis may help to explain a few things! Hope the antibiotics kick in quickly and your stay on the bench is a short one.

    GM - just run for fun & therapy for now; worry about targets another day. Have another good father-son day! image

    Marrows - think we'd all sign up for pills which offered 60-90 secs per mile! Legally, of course... image Sounds like you gave the bridesmaid duties your best shot! Dancing must be good x-training. So what's the Daniels approach to running, as opposed to P&D, Hadd, etc.? I lose track.

    5 more easy miles in the bag. Getting frequency and mileage back before adding in any quality.

  • marrowsmarrows ✭✭✭

    Abbers - not sure yet, keep falling asleep

    GM - marathon pace this spring was 7:15m/M so that's what I meant.  Re your problem, I used a training plan (P&D, 55-70 miles per week) with enough mileage to make me slightly tired all the time, so that it would have been hard to run the 'marathon pace' sessions much faster than realistic target pace!

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Yes Minni, my time in Sitges is a very happy memory- I'd go back tomorrow if it was offered. I used to try and finish my long runs by 9am in summer, it got too hot after that.

    8 miles for me today at 7:15 avg. pace. Much faster than planned but was feeling very good so went with it.


  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    OO - I normally never run on holiday but I have been out everyday here. I ran at 5pm today and yes it was hot but I loved it. I'd like to go up onto the hills behind and hit some of the trails but I don't think I'd get a pass for that!
  • Marrows - those pills sound good. How do you test for iron levels? A while back I was rejected as a blood donor (having donating many times in the past) because my haemoglobin levels (something to do with iron I think!) we're low and I was told that it's common for runners to have low iron levels. Eating liver and spinach is clearly one remedy and probably slightly better (if less pleasurable) than Guinness in the long term.

    Minni - Newcastle is ahead of both Edinburgh and York at the moment. It's elder Lorenzito (rugby and cycling) who's looking for uni places at the mo so unfortunately parkrun won't be too high on his list of priorities but I've threatened him with doing a run on the Moor and then coming back to his place to get changed if he ends up in the  Toon. As you say, the vale of York itself is very flat but once you get out to where my in-laws live it's pretty hilly. 

    Hope you're enjoying Spain - I'm not so good at warm weather running so with the forecast for Madrid being 35 degrees tomorrow, I suspect that I'll be getting up pretty early to head out.

    Good pacing there OO - you're in great shape at the moment. Target for GNR?

    Nothing notable to report on - just a 2 mile each way commuting run today but hoping to get out for a longer one tomorrow before heading up to Chester for a meeting in the afternoon.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    You mean it's the nipper who is throwing out these brilliant PR times??? Rugby is big in Newcastle and I'm sure cycling is too. Newcastle Uni is great and a fantastic location. If he ends up there you must do my favourite race - the Town Moor marathon.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    The Garraf hills are a nice place to run Minni. A couple of KM out of Sitges then a steep climb to the top, but once up you can run for miles hardly meeting a soul...

    I hesitate a bit with 4.5 weeks to go Lorenzo, but anything above 1:22 will probably feel below expectations  


  • Minni - afraid so. His 18:05 at the weekend ranked him at 24 in the UK at U13 (i.e 13 and under). I managed to stick with him on Saturday right up until the point when the starter said "go".

    OO - what's your HM PB? Sub 1:22 sounds like a sharp performance to me.

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Lorenzo - Your son is good, actually, he is very good and I am sure you are very proud. Must be wonderful to share the running thing with your family.

    Marrows - I like the sound of 7:15. My downfall was the my body broke down both times before I even got started when in marathon training. I know why so for the next one I do I know what I have to do. Mind you, easier said than done.image

    OO - Sub 1:22 sounds doable to me given your leg speed.

    Nice run tonight as I met  a chap halfway into a 5 miler who I know who is a familiar face on the running scene here and we are quite equally matched in terms of age and ability. He does a bit of boxing as well and I'm tempted to have a bit of that type of training, mind you I don't fancy getting my block knocked off in the process but just something different and will involve a fair bit of discipline which will do me a world of good. Great day here with my son again on the beach but slightly clouded by a few more bombshells dropped by my soon to be ex wife but I didn't let it affect me. Forecast for tomorrow is sunny and some more beach time. image

  • GM - what are the main things you learnt from previous marathon campaigns? You're a brave man thinking of taking up boxing - isn't there something less obviously painful?

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Lorenzo - Thanks for asking. The main things are :

    1. I had a weak core and this led to other issues.

    2. My biomechanics were compounded by the above.

    3. Both campaigns I could not do the long runs as I was injured at a vital stage in each. i.e. missed approx. a month slap bang in the middle when a marathon runner should be doing 4 long runs and I did 2/3 max for the sum of two marathons.

    4. Nutrition is not an issue as I can take gels, blok shots whatever and it doesn't affect me. 

    5. My weight has always been issue in the past two years but nothing a bad break up won't solve. 4kgs lighter now in the space of a month. Don't get me wrong I am not starving myself but I'm just eating more of the right stuff.

    5. Racing too much and aiming for too many goals in a short time frame.

    6. My body needs time to recover from hard sessions and by doing some cross training I will be a stronger runner.

    7. Stop trying to flog myself too often on runs. I love running as a pure form of exercise but I tend to push it too often and I have learned to reign it in a bit. Must run more often with slower runners for this to happen and save the once/twice weekly hard-core sessions for solo efforts. I'll give you an example, in the build up to my London marathon I decided to run 15 miles at MP back then I thought 7:26 would be about right but I went out and did 15 miles at 7:1x and some will say well done great run etc and believe me it felt fine but those runs take their toll on the body when everything else is not synched.

    I could go on and on as I feel like I have learned so much but have yet to put into practice but I am ok with all that and I will get there, but not just yet. Bet you're sorry you asked now?image

    Oh btw the boxing thing is just for the training and discipline not for the actual fighting. I am a total pacifist. There is a club nearby where I live and I see the guys and girls out running and they all look so happy and fit, could be a new wat to meet different people as well. Cycling is big here in Jersey but it doesn't rock my boat.

  • Abbers, you are officially back! Like the conservative build up.

    Leslie, hope the antibiotics do the trick. Get well fast.

    OO, seems you are feeling more energized based on that last run.

    GM, nice series of runs from you too. That's quite a check list for the next 26.2, but I think I have done about everything in that list in build ups too. Read that link I gave you. It might really address the running too hard, too often issue. I think that's a really tricky part of marathon training. Knowing how to recover enough throughout the long build up.

    Marrows, definitely a couple of tough sessions back to back. In the bank and good for late stage race toughness.

    Well, saw the Fizz today about my hip issues. Learned the name of a new muscle, the tensor fasciae latae or TFL. I've tweaked mine slightly. She's not overly concerned and it's gotten much better with 2 days off. Went out for a 6M easy run to test but felt so good did 12M (Fizz says what can I do you are a runner). Was OK and seems OK still. Learned some interesting new ways to stretch it. Will be touch and go for a bit to see if it just keeps improving or not. Hope so as I am feeling very fit at the moment...


  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    My doctor said something similar VT ref my hip- what do you expect you are a runner?

    Once ran under 1:20 Lorenzo, but that was 20 years ago. At GNR I've been 1:20:XX three times, once missing it by 9 seconds. If trainiong goes well and the conditions are good I think 1:22 is realistic. Tell young Lorenzo not to go too mad and keep an eye out for injuries. Junior OO picked up a foot injury after many months of improvement, and will be out of action for a couple of week- needless to say she is devastated.

  • OO - very timely advice. His foot has been sore recently and we had to call out the Runners Rescue Service (Mrs L!) out to pick us up when we went out for a run together on Sunday. He's given it a couple of days rest and says it OK now so hopefully will be alright for training this evening. 

    GM - a good set of learnings there. I'm sure most of us can identify with many on that list. I know I need to spend some more time on core work but it's difficult when you get all the pain and none of the pleasure from being out there pounding the roads in the fresh air. Anyone any suggestions for enjoyable core work?

    Has it been the same injury both times? 

    5. 6. and 7. all sound related to me - for me it's important to go easy on the racing when there's a bigger goal in sight. Parkruns are great because I can treat them as a really good speed session and to some extent because they're free there's less pressure. When you've shelled out 20 quid or more for a 10K / HM then you feel you have to put a big effort in and it will take something out of you. 

    Having a decent plan should prevent you doing too many hard sessions on the trot - I've found Hudson / Fitzgerald's Run Faster book really good and the plans not only help give you some structure but they have helped deliver PBs in HM and Mara as the focus races, while also delivering 5K and 10K PBs en route.

    Very pleasant run in the early morning sunshine - 7.3 hilly miles on quiet country roads. 

  • marrowsmarrows ✭✭✭

    Lorenzo - no idea how blood tests work. I give them blood, they give me numbers.

    OO - always more interesting to look up race results when you know what people are aiming at - thanks for declaring the target! But the real GNR interest for me will be in the smackdown between 2 friends who are a couple..

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Your right marrows. I'm also a marked man after beating several rivals at the coastal race, they all want revenge. This is good to drive motivation towards a race but take it from an old timer; in the mist of time all you remember about a race is how well you ran (time, placing, prizes) and completely forget about the rivals you raced at the time.

    I did feel a bit guilty about junior OO Lorenzo- hope my joy at her great improvement did contribute to her to pushing too far, too fast- something I'm trying to be careful about.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Lorenzo - Jr #2 has bags of potential then. Hope the interest and desire to improve remains as the teenage years progress! Also hope his foot problem isn't anything significant.

    GM - boxing training would be great for fitness. They do a lot of road work, after all, so must be some cross over there. I'd love to be able to skip like a boxer! Good mara lessons listed there. I suspect some/all of them apply to most of us on this thread.

    VTR - sounds like it's just a time issue for you then before the healing process is complete. Don't push it in the meantime, and you should be fine.

    OO - hope Jr's foot improves quickly.

    6 more easy ones for me today.

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Lorenzo - Yes and no. It was soley a knee problem in my 1st campaign and then in the second one it was knee and Achilles and some Plantar F issues as well. All down the one side though. I went to see a physio and she gave me some good treatment and a whole set of exercises that I had to do. And tbh I only did about 30% of the stuff that she asked me to do. One of the reasons I am thinking of joining the boxing club/gym is that I am not motivated enough to do that sort of thing. Running is not an issue for me even in the middle of a heavy training schedule I very rarely think that I CNBA.

    4 very easy miles for me tonight and I was enjoying it until 1k from home I saw a crowd gathered around a person and knew I was running into something awful. Some poor soul had somehow ended up on the pavement from 20m's above. He had a serious head trauma injury and his one leg was in a bad way. I could not help but stop and regretted that I did. There was serious blood loss from the head and I would be amazed if he made it. I felt so nauseous and I'll never forget that last k. Sorry for the downer post but it really affected me. I am not religious in any way but I will think of him tonight and hope is ok somehow.

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    That sort of thing can be unsettling, GM. I've seen people have heart attacks twice during races and they're not images I'll forget easily.

    Lovely evening at the slightly tacky nightglow at the balloon fiesta last night but now pretty tired.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Sounnds awful GM, was it a crash?

    ! was out early for 8.5 miles. Nearly 2 weeks away so nice to be back home although waether is dull... 

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    GM - flippin' 'eck, it's all going on with you at the moment! Just caught up with the story on the regional BBC news feed; some guy being chased by someone else dropped over the edge onto the pavement below. Grim. As you say, the kind of thing you can never "un-see". Hope you're OK.

    Jools - good timing to avoid the rain; the London bike ride on Sunday looks like it might not be so lucky. Think Marrows may need her waterproofs!

    OO - you've timed your return to the UK perfectly to catch some rain after weeks of sunshine!

    Rest day for me, nothing to report. MLR planned for the morning followed by cricket before the rain sets in.

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    OO - It was a young chap who was being pursued by another male and he must have been so terrified and desperate to get away that he jumped 30ft from a wall and landed head first on the pavement down below. Absolutely shocking and very sad. Dull day here too. It has been sunny most days here since early June.

    Abbers - Yes I am fine thanks, was a bit shocked last night.

    Going to visit some old friends tonight. They converted they're double garage into a cocktail bar so that could be fun. Day off running today.

  • Cocktail bar? Have 2 GM. In pint glasses. Sounds like you deserve them. Good list of lessons by the way....

    Sounds like folks are in the holiday spirit - only a few days before I finish work for a couple of weeks too image

    I've been on the bike a couple of times this week including some hilly work and...... started some fast running. Haven't done any speed work for months but Tuesday was 2x(1m, 1K, 800m, 400m) off 200m at 10k to 1500m pace. All felt ok so last night it was 3m at HMP, 1 easy then 1 at 10K pace. Great fun if a bit of a shock to the legs.

    So, the plan is as follows: rely on current IM base and an ultra at the end of this month for my endurance training, do lots of shorter, faster running to re-programme the legs over the next few weeks and have a crack at an all out marathon in the autumn. 

    Target Race: Frankfurt (?). Target Time: balls out for 2:5x..... image You heard it here first......

  • GM, wow. You just keep getting it from all angles.image Sorry you had to witness that.

    SJ, that didn't take long to recover, eh?image Nice speed work. Bet it felt good to change things up a bit. Will hold you to the 2:5x!image 

    Joolska, I used to live in Albuquerque, NM. Each year they have a massive balloon fiesta. The balloon glow is something to behold. Your post got me feeling nostalgic.

    10M yesterday easy and a brisk (but still easyish effort) 7.5 today and all systems still OK. TFL less and less each day so think will be OK. Plan to keep this week all easy efforts and call it a cut back. Will test the waters with the subLT work next week.


  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    17:51 at the parkrun got me 4th in rather blustery conditions. I suspected a good time was on and just ran even paced; 5;45, 6 (into wind), 5:45. This is only a few seconds off my PB so well pleased with that.  

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