Sub 3h15

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  • The wind equals itself out though so not sure it cost me any time


    Sorry to disagree but as I work in fluid dynamics I can't let that pass.

    The easiest way to think of wind is to think of running on a long travelling walkway. When you run with the walkway you go faster, when you run against the walkway you go slower, but all the time you are on the walkway it is carrying you away from where you started. 

    The full analysis is a load more complex as the drag you feel scales with the square of speed and the work you do therefore scales with the cube of speed. Two things you can do:

    1) shelter behind someone else
    2) if you are on your own, try to maintain constant effort i.e. allow your pace to drop when running into the wind but also go faster when you have the wind behind you.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Well done, Nicko and Southwark runner. I think anything that makes the last 3 miles tougher isn't going to help. The issue is that you will run your race as it presents in front of you. Therefore if the wind isn't a factor in the first 10 you will get to 10 feeling pretty rinsed and hanging on anyway, so to then be hit with a further obstacle makes it very difficult.

    It is the same with the lay out of hills in courses. By example the Coventry half marathon half marathon has a reasonable amount of climbing however it is focused in miles 4-7, when you have got into your rhythm and have plenty of energy. Miles 8-13 contain a lot of long sweeping downhills so at the point in time you would fatigue you're actually helped along and can rinse it as you know whats left. If the hills were the other way around, I don't think you would abuse the downhill miles as much so early on, and then I think you would find the hills even harder as there is natural fatigue come the last few miles.

    I think that makes sense!!!

    Planning a 4 mile recovery tonight before a HMP session tomorrow. I am front loading my week to have a few rest days later in the week and by good fortune that should also mean I wont be outside running when the weather is at its forecast worst.

  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    An updated version of the racing list covering to end May:

      Sunday 04 March - Bath Half Marathon
                                    DT- At least sub 85

      Sunday 11 March - Surrey Half Marathon: 
                                    MsE
                                    G-Dawg - sub 1.26
                                    Lorenzo - sub 1:28
                                    SBD - sub 1:30 (MP Run)

      Sunday 18 March - Ashby 20
                                    DT mara pace plus 10-15 seconds per mile

      Sunday 25 March - Cranleigh 21
                                    G-Dawg MP tester

      Friday 30 March  - Maidenhead 10 miles
                                    Lorenzo - 66:xx

      Sunday 06 April  - Richmond Half Marathon: 
                                   MsE

      Sunday 08 April  - Jersey Spring 10k
                                   GM - 38:30

      Sunday 15 April - Brighton Marathon
                                  SBD - Sub 3:10

      Sunday 22 April - London Marathon
                                  G-Dawg sub 3.09
                                  DT -Too early to say yet
                                  Lorenzo - sub 3:05 (although this may be wishful thinking!)
                                  Nicko1981 (tentative) - sub 3.10

      Sunday 20 May  - Sutton 10K:
                                  MsE

    1. DT19 said:

      By example the Coventry half marathon half marathon has a reasonable amount of climbing however it is focused in miles 4-7, when you have got into your rhythm and have plenty of energy. Miles 8-13 contain a lot of long sweeping downhills so at the point in time you would fatigue you're actually helped along and can rinse it as you know whats left.

      What is the course like nowadays? I ran that a few times in the 90's and the last miles down the Foleshill Road were past all the curry houses and the smell was not at all helpful when you need to be concentrating on the finish.
    2. G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
      Cold and snowy with a bit of breeze here in Surrey tonight. Layered up and went for an 8 mile neg split session. First 4 miles at high 6.50s with the final 4 at 6.4x with a 6.33 finish. Averaged out at 6.50. Most pleasing was how comfy 6.50s felt. I want my MP to be at 7.00 so I can give 3.05 a go.

      Tough conditions and legs still tired from Saturday's 20, so I'll take it.
    3. G-Dawg - Good work! Snowing a bit here too, which is a rarity. 

      Double bagged here today. 4.8 miles tonight with some hills thrown in for the fun of it. 7:3xmm avg. The legs feel fine apart from when I showered tonight I noticed a few bruises on my thighs and I'm covered in little cuts. A few battle wounds from Saturday's shenanigans in London. 

      PMJ - The waft from the curry houses you mentioned, reminded me of the finishing 4 miles in the Jersey marathon. There are a string of cafe's dotted along the promenade of the home stretch of the mara here and the smell of brunch, burgers and onions being cooked is very distracting. 
    4. DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
      PMJ, I'm not familiar with Coventry save for the race. It starts in the centre by bus station, leaves the city as quickly as possible into the countryside then comes back into the city last mile or two. I didn't notice any smellof curry. 

      Nice double running, Gerard.

      Good session, g-dawg. I think to run 7mm for the whole distance you're right to want to be comfortable at 6.50 pace over shorter distances. 

      Monday isn't usually a running day for me but my wife,vhaving been away all last week wanted to get some gym classes in so I dragged myself out for a slow 3.7 mile recovery run. It was bitterly cold. Planning a pace tester tomorrow lunchtime with 4 at hmp. 
    5. MrSoft - I really struggle to maintain any sort of decent pace unless I do a 2-3 mile warm-up. How long till your target marathon? It might all come together yet.
      GM- yes, Mrs GD is fine now, thank you. Nice double.
      GD - another good tempo run.
      DT19 - hope you enjoyed the freezing cold recovery run.
      A bit of snow overnight here and very cold, so decided to double-glove this morning, but still in shorts. 13 miles with 6 @ 8:04 and 7 @ 7:42.
    6. DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

      Good running Gul.

      I ve no idea what just happened on my HMP tester. Planned 4 miles and thinking 6.20-6.25 and hr of circa 168 (I usually race a half to an average of around 173-175).

      Warm up felt bouncy then a snow storm kicked in just as I was about to start the session and was talking myself out of it.

      Pressed on and simply couldn't control my pace. Ended up with 6.10 average with splits of 6.13, 6.10, 6.09 and 6.08 and average hr of 165. The effort felt commensurate with that hr recording as well in that there was no overwhelming desire to stop and when I did there was no hands to knees etc. My breathing was comfortable throughout and I only paused briefly to check my stats before setting off on my cooldown.

      Food for thought in advance of Sunday!

    7. OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

      Well done Nicko & Southwark runner- both impressive Half times, amazing you did not see each other when so close at the finish.

      Sorry to hear about the illness Gul- hope your wife is OK now.

      Good to get a long one in Mr. Soft- plenty of time to worry about targets.

      I've been out twice since Sunday- it's handy having a beach nearby when the snow comes. But the Haweswater 1/2 may get cancelled this weekend if snow persists which will screw up my weekend plans.

      Great photos Gerard.

    8. BirchBirch ✭✭✭
      Gul - shorts ????   it's below freezing !!   :)  (btw,pleased Mrs Gul recovered)   
       
      DT - dunno about "food for thought" - I'd say that's a very encouraging session - nice one . . . 
       
      escaped the main body of forecast snow here - just a light covering - so bagged 13 with my buddy. Did 7 yesterday, and realised that of last week's 45, only 3 miles was before Wed, so I've inadvertently accumulated 62 miles in the last 7 days  . . . .   maybe "food for thought" in my VoGit world  . .     
    9. BirchBirch ✭✭✭
      oh, Gerard - as you kindly asked - yeah, John is having a good XC season ; he's pretty experienced at the discipline, having been doing it since the days of Primary School XC League here . . .     and, your pics made me sorry I couldn't make it - would have been good to say howdo !  
      nice double the other day, btw  . . .   
    10. SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
      edited February 2018

      Excellent HM times from Nicko and Southwarkrunner - good markers for the remaining campaign.

      Good pictures from the Nationals Gerard.  Was it every runner for themselves on the start line or is there an organised starting structure?

      Getting closer to the magic 100 Poacher - well done on ticking another one off in less than ideal circumstances.

      That's pretty encouraging DT - just take it easy before the weekend.

      I'm with you on the shorts Gul but two pairs of gloves sounds a bit OTT.

      Good mileage there Birch.  And well done to Junior.

      Only a light dusting of snow here today so far.  Intervals scheduled for the day but the track is out of action in preparation for a ceremony on Friday.  Thought about alternative road options but struggled to come up with a flat 1K stretch so decided just to do them on the treadmill, so 4K w/u, 1K intervals with 500m recovery at 3:50, 3:50, 3:50, 3:45 and 3:45 and 3.5K w/d.   Not quite flat out, but gives me something to build on. 


    11. G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
      Car told me it was -5 on the way tonight. The 10 mile run also told it was blimmin' freezing despite the layers including 2 pairs of gloves. God knows what the wind chill was but it was biting in.

      Ran with 2 pals. We decided to just go steady rather than play about with mile splits like we usually do as it was icy underfoot. Just had a good chat and averaged 7.14 pace.

      Will do a 5 or 6 tomorrow and then treat myself to two days of rest.
    12. Shorts on Monday and Tuesday for me, but MrsL "encouraged" me to put leggings on this morning for the commuting run. Minus 8 according to my phone so hat and double gloves were also a good move.

      Belated congrats for Saturday to junior Birch and Poachette.
    13. Bit of snow here. Yesterday I saw 2 motorbikes fall over in about 15 minutes. We had a heavy flurry and then cars compacted it and it was just a layer of pure ice on the roads which were sub-zero. To paraphrase Orwell: Four wheels good, two wheels bad.

      Will stay away from the office today and work from home. Leggings will come out for their once a year show.
    14. SBD - Nice pace. Re the Nationals, runners are allocated pen numbers, the start line is very wide, it's a free for all and I was sensible not starting too close to the front as I wanted to avoid be trampled on by the faster runners but not too far back so as to get gridlocked. If I did it again I would put more of an effort in up the 1st hill to avoid the bottleneck but without killing myself.

      G-Dawg - I like your steady pace!

      Lorenzo - Shorts here too but only on my lunch runs as it's just above zero then, the sun on the prom is nice but the wind not so.. Sounds like you made a good choice re your shoes for the XC. I do like running in spikes though and attribute my fall to a mix of fatigue in the legs and wrong foot placement in the mud. :)

      Birch - Your boy John must be in incredible shape at the mo. Has he got any road races planned? I know, it was a real shame I didn't get to meet you. I'm already eyeing up next year. Never been to Yorkshire before.

      OO - I ran on the beach yesterday in the glorious sunshine but it's forecast to snow overnight so I'll probably be doing more beach running if it does.

      DT - Excellent training. Looking very speedy!

      Dragged myself out early this morning, well 6:20am and did a hilly 3 miler with a one mile warm up, well w/u of sorts. It felt very cold and that breeze would bring a tear to your eye. Felt awful going up hill but soon got into my running and was happy with the outcome mile splits were 7:25/6:45/5:41. Looks like the snow is on it's way tonight. I bet it will be roasting come London!



    15. Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
      edited February 2018
      DT19 - wow, that is a cracking pace for that HR. You are certainly on top form.
      OO - hope your race isn't cancelled. Mrs GD is fine now, thanks. Not sure if it was a bug or a reaction to some jabs.
      Birch - good going, for a VOGIT ;) Seriously, though, really pleased. I usually stick with shorts until the temperature drops to -4.
      SBD - very good dreadmill reps. I find that if I don't double glove when out for a long time in these temperatures I struggle unlocking my door to get back inside at the end!
      GD - good pace for a steady run.
      Lorenzo - considerably colder down your way then, but I think it's going to pass the legging threshold tonight.
      PMJ - best to keep your legs under the table then if you're on a video conference call ;)
      An inch or two of snow overnight here, so I did about 20 laps of a field (which some of you may remember), with 18 x 400m-ish tempo efforts. 10 miles in all according to my GPS. Forgotten how much I enjoy running in the snow.
      x-post GM - excellent hilly 3 miler. That last mile was very fast.
      Forgot to say 272 for Feb. A bit lower than I had planned due to last weekend.

    16. BirchBirch ✭✭✭
      Like the literary reference, Philip  . . . .  
       
      Gul - nice to hear the field is still pressed into use - good monthly total - shame you couldn't have bagged 8 more, then you'd have a pleasing round number as a daily average for the 28 days of Feb . . .
       
      Gerard - yes, he's training for his marathon debut - Manchester.  Has a HM a week on Sunday.  
       
      Snow arrived overnight here, so trail shoes donned and 6 miles bagged. 168 for the month.  
    17. Birch - That's brilliant re Manc mara. Which half is he doing? Good monthly total by you.

      Gul - That's a big month for Feb.

      129 miles for me this month so far (spread over 37 runs) I'll add another 6 later, that's if it's not snowing heavily. I am not liking this cold, roll on Spring, pronto!

    18. Hi All!

      Been lurking for a couple of weeks and decided to get involved today! Running London as my first marathon this year and have set myself a 3.15 target. Training has gone well so far although I have picked up a cold after my longest ever training week last week, nothing too bad hopefully.

      Was wondering what your half times were when you all first went sub 3.15?
    19. GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
      edited February 2018
      Gul Darr said:

      x-post GM - excellent hilly 3 miler. That last mile was very fast.


      Gul - the splits are skewed as the 1st one has a 9% gradient of a hill which is about 1/3 of a mile long and the last mile is back down but I did note that I was about 45 seconds slower on that segment going up compared to my quickest ever, so it took me a while to wake up and get moving at a decent pace this morning.
    20. Good effort DT
      Good miles Birch
      Good legs Lorenzo, PMJ
      Good to see the field back in usd Gul
      Stevie the common view is that a half of about 1.30 is pro rats for a 3.15 mara

      Snowy hell up here in Northumberland, tried to head out today for an epic trip south to catch a plane to work but got 3m and had to be dug out. Then had to dig the rescue vehicle out. The local snowplough is on its side in a field. 6ft drifts and going nowhere. Thankfully last autumns mackerel catch is in the freezer.







    21. PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
      edited February 2018
      Good effort DT
      Good miles Birch
      Good legs Lorenzo, PMJ
      Good to see the field back in use Gul
      Stevie the common view is that a half of about 1.30 is pro rata for a 3.15 mara

      Snowy hell up here in Northumberland, tried to head out today for an epic trip south to catch a plane to work but got 3m and had to be dug out. Then had to dig the rescue vehicle out. The local snowplough is on its side in a field. 6ft drifts and going nowhere. Thankfully last autumns mackerel catch is in the freezer.


    22. On the horizon is the sea. Baltic! No running today.
    23. Thanks Poacher, it think 1.30-1.32 is on the cards so should give me some confidence. Although if this cold doesn't shift I may run it at MP and see how I feel for the last few miles.

      That's a huge amount of snow! We have barely anything here in the Midlands
    24. Looks like some fun running conditions out there - well done to all avoiding the temptation of staying in the warm!

      No real snow in Bristol yet; it's actually lovely sunny weather here and went for an outdoor swim after PT yesterday. Nice slow 10 miler for me at lunch today at 8:00/mile; letting the legs get back into it after the weekend. Need to make sure I get a 20+ in before I go away skiing on Saturday.

      @StevieWh3:15 is a great ambitious target for a first marathon! Assume you have a decent amount of prior running under your belt? As far as half mara times; I got 3:12 last year off a 1:31 half - if you go back a few pages there was quite a discussion about half->mara conversions .
    25. > @nicko1981 said:

      >
      > @StevieWh - 3:15 is a great ambitious target for a first marathon! Assume you have a decent amount of prior running under your belt? As far as half mara times; I got 3:12 last year off a 1:31 half - if you go back a few pages there was quite a discussion about half->mara conversions .

      Well I've always been a runner but only recently stepped up from 10ks. Did my first half in Birmingham last year in 1.37.52 which felt a steady pace. In hindsight my training was less than ideal, had a 10 day holiday 3 weeks before the race and only managed 120 miles in 12 weeks!

      This is the first time I have ever followed a disciplined training plan and I have definitely seen huge improvements!
    26. February done.

      168.26 miles at 8:06 pace. On target for 2018 in 2018 and 9 ahead of 2017.

      Down south, snow is just to make things look pretty


    27. Icing sugar maybe, but it ain’t real snow.
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