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Sub 3h15
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Gul, really sorry to hear the bad news. I wish all the best to you and your family.
DS2 P&D 2nd Edition: Part 2 Ch 7
General Aerobic - up to 10
MLR 11 to 15
LR 16+
(edited - never use a less than sign or you lose your post
)
p.s. I don't have a photographic memory - I bought the kindle version so have it on my PC!)
Tough times ahead Gul - keep strong.
I'd call a MLR between 12 - 16m.
DS2 - I think its always tempting to go faster because it feels so right at the time but we need to keep an eye on the bigger picture. Lots of miles mean more chance of fatigue or injury and keeping the longer runs a bit slower helps reduce the chance of this.
SalF - Out of interest, what sort of weekly mileage were you doing for your training for Amsterdam? I know you siad you were doing a weekly midweek 10 miler, what sort of pace was that. Thanks.
Also-ran - That really helps. Thanks. Expecting to read Chapter 7 in about 3 months time! It would be much earlier if it wasn't for the constant taxi-driving my kids around to various sporting events, dance classes, parties etc, etc.
Have now decided that since my run this morning falls in the General Aerobic category it wasn't too fast. That is a relief! Downside is that I now find I haven't completed any MLR's!
I like paper books but beginning to believe that a kindle version may be the way forward.
Minni - X-post! Yes, I have to hold myself back. Not always easy but one of the main reasons I've not run a sub 3:15 since I came back to running has been picking up injuries at inopportune times (is there an opportune time?). I will do my best to rein it in. I need to give myself the best possible chance and getting to the start line in one piece would be a good start.
Read the schedules at the back first DS2. Then go back, skipping through the book to find the theory / explanation for them. You can reduce the weight of the book by carefully cutting out and 'storing in a safe place' the chapters on stretching and nutrition!
edit: formatting
Keir - was thinking that, but have autistic tendencies and find it difficult to start any place but the front! Perhaps I should cut out all of the pages except the schedules at the back and then it will feel like the front!!!
Besides, at the rate I'm reading the book I'll have completed my marathon before I get to the schedules.
Keir - I see your PB's are mostly from kent based races. I take it you live in this neck of the woods?
Yes, but I am quite a way south of where you are, although I work closer to your place.
DS2, sorry to disappoint, but General aerobic runs should generally be slower than LSRs and MLRs. In range MP+15% to MP+25%. According to P&D.
Bought P&D on my kindle about 3 weeks ago and have read many sections several times over
keeps me occupied on the commute ...
Gul Sorry to hear you news, my thoughts are with you and your family.
Gul - so sorry to hear your news. I hope you're all doing OK.
I tend to run my MLR (10-16 miles in marathon training, shorter if not) quite slowly. Usually about 8.15 - 8.30 pace compared to LSR pace of 8.00 - 8.10 (soon to be revised to 7.50 - 8.10 though
) There are three reasons for this. 1. I run the MLR either the day after or the day before a hard intervals session (depending on the time of year). 2. I run it on a hilly route whereas the LSR is flat. 3. I run it mostly with my running club so have to run at the group's pace.
Intended to go to the gym this morning but I didn't wake up until after quarter past 1. Oops. No time now. Will make club tonight though.
Oh blimey - I know nothing! Guess that's why I am on here - to learn. Thanks for all of your input. I'm sure it will all make some kind of sense sooner or later.
Lunchtime Runner - Do I ever get to run faster?
I assume that a fair amount of MP running will hit the schedule at some point. In my earlier years running everything was done at a decent pace. I guess it was only my age at the time and many years of fastish training that stopped me getting injured. I'm just finding it hard to accept things are different now.
I think I should probably join a club again. Group training would help. it's just with three kids it's hard to see that I would manage group sessions. Although I have to do nearly all my running alone it does enable me to fit it around my life and causes little or no friction with the OH!
Speedy - I had been thinking about fitting the MLR next to a faster session (ie intervals). That's the main reason I hadn't used a midweek MLR in the past. Everything I have read on here suggests it to be one of the main reasons for big improvements so I'm keen to accomodate it.
DS2 - to add to what others have said, if you're going to follow P&D a lot of the benefits will come from the mileage and structure of the program. Other than the tempo, MP and race work-outs, the pace you run the other workouts is not that critical. It's better to undercook the pace and stay injury free. I've trained for 3 marathons using P&D - the best result came from the campaign where I had the fewest injury problems and missed sessions even though I often struggled to run the faster paced sessions at the 'required' pace.
Keir - I think I must have cut out the section on Core Exercises by mistake ..
Great day here for a run outside but as I'm unable to escape until later when it's dark I think I may have to hop on to the treadmill again
Gul - very sorry to hear your news. My thoughts you and the family. I'm sure you'll be bust supporting those around you, but don't forget about looking after yourself as well.
DS2, actually I don't know all that much, and am quite inexperienced compared to most here. But I have been main-lining P&D recently. It does feel like all this slow running is enabling me to start to increase my mileage without getting injured (I'm kind of aiming for the endurance phase of the sub 55m 18-week plan, which allows tempo runs every other week). I've never tried properly slow recovery runs before - but they seem to be working for me in managing any niggles. So far.
SBD, I don't like the dark either. 2 hours on the treadmill planned for tomorrow after work. I've just switched to running my long runs midweek, with MLR of 10+ in my usual slot on sunday, for family-life-compatibility reasons.
LR - It seems everyone knows more than me despite the fact I ran my first marathon in 1986! I'm not sure whether there is any benefit in doing planned recovery runs as gentle spins on the bike instead. I was intending to do that but now that I'm getting back into my running I'm enjoying the running more. Having said that, I am cycling LEJOG next August (10 days) so wanted to keep a bit of my cycling legs through the winter.
2 hours on the treadmill - I hope you have something good to listen to/watch!
Good advice from the collective thread brain re reigning in the pace for MLRs - I am guilty of zipping along at what feels comfy or even apply a bit of a push to it, naughty naughty
Swim tonight. Zero run miles since Preston although foot is improving quickly. I might chance a spin session or 2 over the next few days and maybe a gentle jog on Sunday. Tingle of excitement just writing that down.
I ran my first in 85 and I don't expect I am the longest server by a long way. The hardest thing here is really getting MP set right. Once MP is right then MP will feel hard and fast, MP+10% feels like you are pushing it and MP+20% feels OKish. If you push for 16 weeks or more with all your runs at MP then either you will break down or you have set MP too low.
Come taper time though MP should feel easy!!
Well ok until about mile 22. Lol
DS2 said"It seems everyone knows more than me despite the fact I ran my first marathon in 1986! "
Same here DS2 . . (first mara 1986). . . .
His face was quite a picture when he came to watch me recently. Totally
Oblivious to the talk of sports drinks, Gels, GPS watches, compression socks, fancy daps, nip guards, negative splits , positive splits, bonking, lactate thresholds, vo2 Max's.
Very funny to hear his 'in my day story's,
Decent pair of pumps and a few cups of water if you were lucky!!
"2 hours on the treadmill - I hope you have something good to listen to/watch!"
Nope.
. I'm usually quite happy to watch the clouds float past - the view is Ok from my gym: the odd tree, some open water, people milling about. But at night there is just darkness and random reflections of other people (window panes are at an angle). But, to be honest, unlike most people, I don't find treadmills any kind of a problem: it's either good thinking time or I just daydream. I find it quite (mentally) relaxing.
PMJ, interesting and helpful to see your comments on how the paces feel. That fits quite well with my recent (limited) experience. A few weeks ago, I fondly imagined that MP pace was a doddle, but now that I'm lengthening my long runs, it now looks quite hard!
There's a lot of new folks and a lot of folks itching to get training for Spring marathons on here.
SL and Marigold both ran ~2:30 following PnD as stated, so theres no need to add miles to long runs as some folks like to, Mr's P and D wrote plans as a whole, if I was to follow them then I'd commit to it and try to do it as stated too. BUT............PnD have some tough runs and paces, and no rest days (certainly in the longer ones anyway). Now its important to remember that you dont have to complete 100% of the plan and some days you wont be able to run the miles or paces asked for, some days life gets in the way and some days you are simply tired so a rest day is ok, or an easy few miles instead.
There is no such thing as a perfect campaign or a perfect race day, you have to make the best of both around the cards you get given. Consistency is key, and its not about how hard you can train in the build up, its about gettting as much of the build up completed as possible whilst still getting to the start line with enough matches left in your match box to do yourself justice on the day, how fast you could run in training counts for nothing if you are smoked by race day. (I started doing a lot better when I realised this).
Now is the best time of year to kick back for a few weeks, esp the folks that have just completed a marathon. Being too keen too early isnt ideal.
Sorry to hear your news Gul. Take Care
Of course TR is right about the consistancy. I've been benched more than most and mostly it was down to enthusiasm not matching my ability to absorb the training. Last campaign was to P&D, but I had easy miles in the middle of tempo runs, extended recovery on intervals, even a sit down on an LSR. Always the toughest sessions for me were MLRs after tempo/interval sessions. The recovery runs are also tougher than expected as your still recovering from the tough session.