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ASICS Super Six: Alison (Sub-3:30)
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Hi Alison,
Sorry to hear about the logistics crisis - not as bad as arriving at work to find you haven'y got the right stuff to change into!
I'm a week behind you on the schedule - did the 4 x 1M yesterday, and was really disappointed with my pace - ave 30s slower per mile than this time last year, and even worse when compared to later last year. I can't explain it, but will press on and hope it's just a glitch, though training did slip quite a bit over the last couple of months. There's still plenty of time for us to get back in there
.
I use an Inov8 Race Pro 12 Performance Pack. Highly recommended!
Joddly
Having missed training and with christmas and the recent cold weather, it may take a while to get back to last year's form but if you persevere and train diligently you will soon get it back
Indeed. It's a rather long story but after a pre-work run I discovered that while I had packed a top, skirt, tights, shoes, and even a necklace to put on for work, I had neglected to pack any underwear. So spend the day at work wearing a strapless bikini as underwear
I don't think anyone noticed...
Second vote for pack your rucksack the night before. And always have a spare set of clean underwear permanently stashed in said rucksack, just in case!
Today much more of a success - 12.25km to work in 1:08:46 - and quite comfortable. That's 5.25 per km.
Have changed Garmin to km, but it still beeps on the miles - and it beeped at 7miles and I was on 1:02 - so I am pleased.
Enjoying good breakfast - peanut butter bagel.
(On the rucksack front, I have 2 - one tiny Dakine one for purse, phone, keys, underwear! That's the one I used today. But yesterday I needed bigger one as was off to theatre in evening and needed more things. Happily, the big rucksack has been located!)
Good run Alison.
Agree with Hilly, it's the effort that's more important than the time at this stage of the schedule but nice when the times and paces are goodbut nothing to worry about if they aren't
Had a nice 5ish miles at lunch with a colleague - too much talking I think, but about 45mins. Absolutely loads of runners out the embankment. New Year's resolutions obviously still in place!
Steve - what do you think about my doing my 12miles tomorrow, rather than Sunday? I just envisage Sunday being really quite busy and would quite like not to be knackered and hungry!
Kryptonite, good luck with the plan. I too am chasing the sub 3:30 with a 3:43 best but that was a couple of years ago with some rest and distractions in between. Have entered the Rotterdam marathon which is on 10 April plus a couple of HMs in Feb. Opening with Watford HM which is early Feb and has some decent hills to test the stamina! Then off to Brighton HM which I have not done before so looking forward to a different race.
Admire you cycling to work as I am just too chicken at the moment!
Er, must confess haven't been on bike this year yet, but it's all starting again on Monday - have had enough of the tube! Takes an hour at least on tube to get to work, or 65/75 mins to run, or 35/40 to cycle, so is a bit of a no-brainer! Take note, Boris.
Am also considering Watford - didn't know it was hilly - eek!
I did my 12 miles today in 1:44, so am pleased - 4 mins quicker than last week along more or less the same route - still muddy and puddly.
Sill not pinning down any 8 min miles tho, but certainly getting there. Doing the first 6 at 9min/mile pace was fine, and kept the other 6 under 8:30. Had to have a breather for a minute after the first 3 quicker ones - quite annoyed with self.
Nevermind.
We can do it Silver Fox 2! I have some friends also chasing 3:30 in Rotterdam - trying to persuade them to come to Paris straight afterwards on the train to celebrate with me! If I hadn't won this, was going to enter Rotterdam - flat! But apparently windy, so training on days like today v useful!
Hope all other forumites are well and having good weekends.
I'm happier too, as yesterday's tempo 4M came in quicker than my 4 x 1M intervals on Tuesday, so it might just have been an off day.
16 tomorrow for me as I'm ramping up the long run distances rather sharply to be in shape for a long duathlon (Ballbuster) at the beginning of March.
Things always get tougher at this stage as the weekly mileage and the long runs get bigger, and the niggles start to creep in. I think this is the time it's particularly hard to string together marathon pace miles or faster, as there is a background of work in the legs all the time, and it takes a couple of months to get accustomed to it, though I'm not sure I ever adapt completely - the taper's for the final recovery!
Well done on the progressive Alison. I feel a long way from MP in long runs at the moment. Did 16 miles @ 8.46 yesterday and it was a real slog, had to keep reminding myself that I know I can run 26.2 miles. (And very pleased to read Steve's post!).
I'm also doing Watford, but will do a flat 10 miler in March as a better test of fitness. Paris is a pretty flat course isn't it?
Alison - I am confused. Did your schedule call for the long run to include some miles at MP this week?
It maybe more useful to build up the MP gradually within a shorter run before including them in the long run. I started with 4 within a 9 miler and am currently at 10 within 14 but not yet as part of my long run. I am sure Steve will be able to comment more knowledgeably then me.
As I have suggested before, it would be really helpful if you could put up the RW schedule each week and then comment on each session (pace and how you felt) with maybe a summary at the end of the week.
This would allow Steve to comment more so the rest of us could share his knowledge and also, many people out there will be following the same schedule and feeling the same things so they want to know how it is going.
I think I did put my suggestions for this week and the schedule is linked to front but is a week ahead due to Paris coming before London
(Today was Sun 12M in approx 1:42 (First 6M in 54 mins, last 6M at marathon pace in 48 mins)
The schedules call for a partial run at marathon pace within the schedule and Alison did this run yesterday.
Here is my adjusted schedule for Alison for this coming week.
WEEK FIVE (Jan 24-30): approx 40M
Mon Rest
Tue 1M jog, then 12 x 400m in approx 100 secs with 200m (or 1-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 8M easy at 9 minute miles
Thu 1M jog, then 4M at half-marathon pace (around 8 min miles or faster), then 1M jog
Fri Rest
Sat Parkrun or 35 mins fartlek (approx 4M)
Sun 15M easy at 9 minute miles
Yes, I'm sure! This weekend's long run was: 12M in approx 1:42 (First 6M in 54 mins, last 6M at marathon pace in 48 mins)
The plan for next week is this:
Mon Rest
Tue 1M jog, then 12 x 400m at mile/ 5K speed (or 95 secs) with 200m (or 1-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 8M easy (approx 72 mins)
Thu 1M jog, then 4M at half-marathon pace (approx 30 mins), then 1M jog
Fri Rest
Sat Parkrun or 35 mins fartlek (approx 4M)
Sun 15M easy (approx 2:15)
V much looking forward to tomorrow's rest. Today I did my 4 miles with a friend of mine who is pretty speedy. I just wanted to know that I could do one mile at marathon pace, so we did the first two at 9min/mile pace, then the third at 8:15 and the 4th at 7:55 - I am feeling much better mentally that I can actually do it, and I think I'll have to borrow him again for my speed sessions! (Thank you so muc h- you know who you are!)
Absolutely cream-crackered. Progress though.
Including today's run that's 4 quality sessions in 7 days (or 4 quality sessions and a long run in 8 days depending how you cut it) which seems rather a lot considering mileage will also increase by nearly 20% over all previous mileage.
Sunday - extended long run with lots of MP running
Tues - mile / 5k pace work
Thu - HMP work
Sat - Race or fartlek
Sun - 15m long
Where is the recovery / adaptation?
Who believes this to be sensible / reasonable?
In marathon training I feel there has to be a mixture of hard work and recovery and balanced training, but there has to be an element of common sense and when you are tired, missing some sessions is the sensible thing to do.
I know that for some the schedules are challenging and some prefer more slower running but these schedules work on the principle of most weeks, 1 long run, 1 speed session, 1 threshold type run at marathon or half marathon pace or hills, plus easy and shorter midweek longer run and sometimes also a short race or fartlek . Not everyone will do all but I think it is feasible if you don't go faster than the suggestions and take extra rest when you need it.
Re this week I don't think 6 miles at close to marathon pace is that excessive when ultimately you have to run 26 miles, - the rest of the run was supposed to be easy.
Monday is a rest (and Alison got an extra day as she ran the Sunday run Saturday), Tuesday is a short and sharp session with not a lot of volume - Wednesday is slow and should be relaxed and easy and sort of recovering from the day before. Thursday is 4 miles at ideally slightly faster than marathon pace but it should be quite a bit slower than you could run for 4 miles flat out. Friday is a rest.
Saturday is probably the controversial one that is but I'm not expecting anyone to run a flat out Parkrun race or do a hard fartlek session. It should be either a 5k in company or a relatively gentle speed play session just going through the gears.
Sunday is a long slow one.
I don't think the increase in mileage is that excessive week by week,
Steve - I think the major difference for me is I'm train all year round so at no point would I have to be ramping up the mileage and doing challenging speed sessions. The risk of injury is high when you attempt to do quality work when you are tired.
Of course the SS6xers are in a different place and may feel the need to get everything in, which is fine, but later in the schedule is when it will really tell. For example, I can happily run 21 miles so if I decided to marathon train I wouldn't need to be increasing my long run for a while, therefore I could look at increasing my mid week or adding in more miles at MP. These problems arent so apparent for the slower runners because they can get away with just adding miles to improve, but the sub 3-3:30 guys are in a bit a quandry really.
This is to take away nothing from the partcipants - I think for me all this competition does it highlight the importance of years of training to succeeding at marathon running, if you have time its easier to cover everything in a risk adverse way that will utimately lead to better long term performance. Even if you are naturally talented at running (which I am not) you will struggle to do your best off a 16 week training plan.
I agree the most important session is the weekly long run and it is that session which will ultimately decide how good a marathon run you have - the other sessions are missable and there is no point doing them if excessively tired or bordering on injury and hopefully there is no pressure to complete the sessions at all costs but fitness permitting to follow the principle of the schedule but for common sense to prevail and guidance to be given where appropriate.
While some are following a 16 week schedule - it's not as if most are starting totally from scratch but it dooes help if you start in good shape from the off
There was a feeling from some that some of the past schedules didn't have enough marathon pace running - time will tell if it's gone the other way but it was fairly carefully looked at that the miles didn't go up too much but in most weeks there was a natural progression in distance on the Wednesday and Sunday runs and the speed sessions also go up fairly gradually but cover a wide spectrum of speeds.
Parkruns are there because they are a growing part of the running community in some areas that are fun but don't have to be taken too seriously. I think a fast parkrun occasionally isn't a problem a day before a long run and most weekends through the winter, club runners especially are used to racing cross-country on the saturday and doing long runs on the Sunday.
I'm a big parkrun fan
I have over 30 different venues to my name, my problem till now has been running them slowly enough - I always get caught up in the race 
.
They are great though, especially as they can be built into a longer session (for example if you do your long run on Saturdays you can use them to kick off you MP miles).
Of course the mileage increase isn't significant in itself - but along with all the quality it is........we'll have to agree to disagree.
Part of the issue is that it's quite easy to do one (or even two) high quality weeks with one easy-ish day in between. It's a week or two afterwards when you only find out it's deleterious affect . So I would hope Alison would be ultra cautious.
This week's training doesn't bear much resemblence to a marathon schedule - it looks more like a 10k schedule with a slightly longer Sunday run. Just one contradiction being the goal to build endurance whilst having a second longest run of 8m.
Moraghan
Are you training for the marathon yourself? If so, what does a typical week for you now look like?
I agree there is a need to be cautious - the schedule is putting all the sessions out there and then the athlete has to listen to their body and runners here have the advantage of also listening to others on the forum before doing what is best for them. Hard work is the key to getting fitter but it's a waste of time if it injures you.
There is a fair amount of quick running in this week but I don't see it as 10k training as such as there is a long run, one medium run, one session with some HM pace and that follows a run with marathon pace in it. The Wednesday run isn't too long, so as to avoid putting too many miles in there early without a gradual increase but it goes up gradually, hopefully, as the body adapts as do the Sunday runs though there some weeks, the distance stays the same but the speed increases.
Long runs are important but so is speed as for instance you won't break three hours and cruise at 6:50 miling if you haven't been doing some running faster than that.
This being the 35th successive year I've prepared myself for a marathon, I like to think I have some idea on preparation by now and I have helped a wide variety of paces to run marathons using a principle of building miles gradually but keeping some form of faster running in. I'm sure others have different ideas and prefer more miles, less speed and that works for them and I like listening to alternative views and seeing what's works for different individuals. The important thing is to get fitter, stronger and faster and avoid injury. If that means missing some of the sessions on the schedules to stay healthy then that's fine and sensible. I don't think the schedules are too excessive or too speed orientated as long as the runner holds back on the easier days and gets sufficient rest.