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Riots...
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Nam
thank you for stating so eloquently and passionately what every right thinking person should be saying
There has been a lot of comment from residents asking why the police have been so passive in their response
Being reluctant to use force can indeed be admirable. But when events have got out of control, the fullest use of police powers is justified.
The present generation of police leaders gained promotion by mastering the art of talking about “issues around” racism or bearing down on hate crime “going forward” and talking the political rote of the time. Learning the management buzz words of the past decade and more has not produced leaders able to command men in a riot. Instead they shove the decisions upstairs for others to make.
The injuries sustained to date by officers show that there are plenty of men and women prepared to be brave when needed, but they are lions led by the donkeys who listened a bit too intently to the sociology lectures about “hate crime” at Bramshill police college.
In a recent press police conference the ACC said that using rubber bullets was an option and that they have had them available for the last three nights!!! They aren't much good unless they are used. In these situations there are no "innocent bystanders" but I am sure everyone who was hit would soon be canonised with that particular label.
It doesnt make you right wing to think those above things, but your eagerness to characterise the rioting as criminal rather than political, advocate harder punishments as some kind of solution, and argue that the rioters are all brainless fools with an artificial sense of entitlement seems to fit nicely with a conservative world view. That the majority of rioters couldnt eloquently provide a political justification is irrelevant, we are all political creatures even if we lack the cultural tools or awareness to explain it...that the rioting takes place in these communities, in this economic environment, under this government, after the shooting i guess is completely coincidental....just as the last time this happened back in the 80's with plenty of shared contexts it was just criminals having fun eh?
I read the observer, so feel free to generalise on bleeding heart liberals
I found it ironic that you accused me of lacking sympathy for the victims when i said thats precisely what the right does when somebody questions the causes rather than simply blaming the perpetrators. Actually in my life, ive been held up at gun and knife point, have lived in poor and bourgeois neighbourhoods in this country and others and this has simply reinforced the value of taking into account social causes. I have full sympathy with the victims of the riots/violence, and of course those guilty of assault etc should face the law....but the bigger issue for me is the larger fundamental causes which i think are being largely neglected in the media. I'd much rather a society where great social empathy exists than to take egotistical pleasure at not being so ignorant to suggest authoritarian measures....
At the moment, if you are out on the streets at night then you are either stupid or not innocent. The exception being people who have no choice to be there (maybe coming home from working late or shift work) or in areas where there hasn't been any trouble yet, so they are caught up unexpectedly.
Surely any sensible person would be safely indoors, or finding somewhere else to live for a few days.
In that case my dog is a "political creature"... she just doesn't know it.
Im going to instead run a 5km race 800 metres down the road from last nights liverpool riots, they are welcome to share some of the post race water tho....maybe a few molotov cocktails might improve my chances of a pb attempt
Underclass MY ARSE!
Thieves and Scumbags and about as political Nams dog.
These disturbances have been arranged to support criminal enterprise, give the police free reign to go in and use force and if it doesn;t look good over your morning latte I suggest you need to grow a pair.
Policing is about law enforcement (mostly by consent but sometimes without it) and its time to let them enforce. Sadly the top brass of the police are too busy covering their arses and to concerned about their future roles. Notice how none of those touted for the Met top job have put their ahead above the paraphet.
16,000 police on duty tonight in London I bet some liberal will be moaning tomorrow about OTT policing
Is it surprising that they are covering themselves and that the actual officers are perhaps reluctant to act - given the guy who (tragically) died after being pushed over by the police during the last lot of london riots, the officer who pushed him being prosecuted...
Personally i can't justify at all what is being done, it is wrong and cannot be justified. However, to say it is only mindless violence is IMO a bit simplistic. A lot of those people who are out there causing trouble have some real issues, they are (beware the sweeping generalisations) uneducated, unemployed, have no prospects for a better life, no hope, no legal way to improve their life and have no engagement from the 'establishment'. They ahve seen that peaceful protest gets ignored in this country (for the most part) now, and so may feel they have no choice but to take more extreme action. I don't agree that looting is the right action and I think a lot of that is seeing others get away with it and a sense of entitlement to have the things they want for no effort - after all in many cases they have never had to work for anything in their life so why start now? Also there is probably a large boredom factor and also, given teh age groups involved a lot of showing off to mates, trying to be cool etc. All these factors are involved in lots of the areas where theere has been trouble, add in the mindlessness, stupidity and lack of thought of the consequences and a criminal element and this is the outcome. Not right, not justified, but not as simple as many have made out.
These people aren’t really bad; they are just under-privileged and unappreciated. If we stopped and listened to their problems they wouldn’t be rioting and if we gave them a free TV they wouldn’t feel the need to steal one. I am going out onto the streets of Clapham tonight where I used to live and if I see a rioter I am going to give him a big cuddle and then offer to buy him a widescreen TV. I think that you lot should all do the same.
And in the midst of all this, a little bit of true British community spirit - the Riot Womble
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14456857
As niaive as it may sound (and I'm the world's greatest cynic), I do hope they're tenacity wins through. I do also think however that at some point the locals will become restless with being scared in their own homes. I can honestly see pitch battles in the streets between the two sides if things don't calm down soon. Then the police will have to choose which side to fight, the rioters or those defending their desire for safe and peaceful living.
Anyone know where I can get a cheap flat screen telly, Xbox and a smart phone.
As I work for a living and can't afford them normally !!!
Fair enough, David - they shall have to decide which group of fighters to uphold should the pitch battles begin. The decision is a clear one on paper but when violence breaks out between the two opposing sides (and this was my point), what will their stance be?
Apparently there's some discussion going on currently (according to Twitter, which is never wrong of course) between local peaceful youngsters who feel the locals and police should be 'upholding' a united front.
DAVID ??? Only my Mum and Don Minquez ever call me David
It's rather simple, If you are fighting on the street you are breaking various public order offences and therefore should be locked up....
Ack, post too long.. and not saved. /forum/smilies/secret_smiley.gif[/img]&@@%/]*&@@%/ board
Putting my trainee behaviorist hat on...
Actually you risk moving the problem elswhere and/or making it worse.
Number one reason for cats peeing in the wrong place is a health problem, so your first move should be to take the cat to the vet.
After that there's many reasons. One would be that the cat is scared, eg by bully cats in the area, maybe stopping it using it's usual place to pee. In this case using a water pistol would mean more people against it, and possibly an increase in the cat feeling a need to spread it's scent around to make the place feel more secure. Or there might be something else wrong with the tray (anything changed?). Vets can refer to behaviorists, in some cases pet insurance will pay their fees.
Continuing...
The cats were probably upset and worried by your abscence. They probably choose to pee on your bed because it smelt of you and so they thought it was a safe place (cats feel vulnerable while peeing). Looked at that way it's sort of a complement.
Stress (as in owners being away) can also cause cystitis in cats, which can be much more serious than in humans: it can actually kill a cat. So if this happens again they should have a vet check. You might also want to make sure whoever looks after them cleans the tray properly if you have one, or consider putting them in a cattery. Though I'm a catsitter... some cats do better in a strange place than having strange things happening in their territory.
New mattress a good idea if you can afford it. If peeing happens where you can clean it, then use biological washing powder, dry, then spritz with surgical spirit. This fully breaks down the scent molecules rather than just masking them. Any masking/reduction without total removal can mean the cat gets prompted to 'top up' it's mark. Bleach contains some of the same chemicals as pee, so can also prompt further marking.
Is that your answer for rioters? *G*
But your only a pretend cat KK
In a similar way that the rioters are only pretend humans, maybe?
I know Dave and I agree, as I'm sure the police and government will. But who do they go for first? The yoof involved in looting and disorder or the families trying to protect their way of life through violence(intended or defensive)? Again, on paper its simple, the worst offender would presumably gain the full force of the law on the front line but I can honestly see a massive backlash as reports come out of home owners being charged with public disorder offences along with the rioters.
Hopefully I'm being very pesimistic rather than realistic.
Oh Brains of Britain...