Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Craig



  • Looks like a pretty solid sesh to me Bo - well done matey!

  • 20 miles, get you!!!! Well done. I have ignored the booze postimage

    Do you feel confident about carb loading now? race morning eating?  and fuelling during race?

  • Bo - impressive 20 miler that - yes, a bit quick at the start but i really like those last 2 miles at faster than MP which is when you were strong on tired legs so good for you.  It's also a big psychological boost cos now you know you can run for 20 miles - as mcs says though, its the last 6 that counts in the marathon which is why you need to have energy in the tank (and more fuel) at 20.

    Did you take any gels during the run?

    Don't worry about the odd drink, it keeps us sane!!

  • Hey Craig, welcome to the 20-miler plus brigade! You are now officially a marathon runner in training. I don't have any complaints about your pacing on that run, but a shame that it was a bit of a toughie - don't let it plague you though, it was a big bridge to cross and it's now done. Good workimage.

    We're truly on the home straight now, too. Here's what is lined up for next week, which is week 13.

    Week Thirteen w/c 19/3/12 (34M)
    Mon Rest
    Tue 7M of 1M jog, then 6 x 1000m at 10K pace with 2 min jog recoveries, then 1M jog
    Wed Rest
    Thu 1M jog, then 4M brisk, then 1M jog
    Fri 6M slow
    Sat Rest
    Sun Half Marathon (FLEET) 5 miles at 10 min miling, 5 at 9.45 3 at 8.30ish

    Really pleased you and Emma are both doing Fleet - will be nice for you to have the moral support there.

  • Morning everyone!

    How did your run go Sam? Any joy? (fingers & toes are crossed)

    Week 13 - crikey bananas - way to go Craig! Hope you've sobered up now LOL - really pleased to see that you're finding a happy balance - running is not meant to stop you have fun once in a while you know!

  • Sleepy - Fleet on Sunday - i plan to come down to support and get there early to park (9ish) so will meet you all before the race - thanks for the info - could you PM me the meet point and time please
  • Morning Campers!!

    Cycled to work this morning, bootiful on the trail, sunny but cool. Nice to get the bike out as the legs were abit stiff this morning after a wet soggy 13.1 yesterday...........sounds like a party at Fleet coming up!!

    If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun................nowt wrong with the odd dram Craig have a good week training.

  • Cor good work Craig!  Looks very impressive pacing to me. 

    I managed my planned 18 miler yesterday in the country where my OH's family live as we were there for the weekend.  8 laps of a 2.25 mile loop, which I thought might be a bit dull towards the end, but was actually ok as it made such a change from my usual London routes.  Trialled a different pre LSR meal plan night before, which ended up in Prezzo with the OH's had a large light pizza.  Felt pretty good on the run until mile 11 when I had to pop into the in-laws quickly for a quick loo stop (grrr) but then was fine again for the last 7 miles.  Was quite tired in the last mile but made it!  Feel pretty happy with my time too (3:25 - I was aiming for under 3:30 image).  So now wondering if maybe it's the SIS gels my stomach doesn't tolerate as loo stop was about 50 mins after my first one, and about a mile after my second.  Had porridge 3 hours before (at 6 a.m.) and yep I did 'empty' before my run too Ruth...gosh never thought I'd be talking about such things online image.

    Two weeks until my 20 miler so a bit of time left to experiment to get this nutritiion fuelling thing right.  That or I'll just have to plonk for building in a loo break on the day...annoying!

  • Morning all. My PC at work isn't working and they are having to send a courier from London with a new access card, so been twiddling my thumbs and reading up on the posts.

    Thanks for the comments guys, really needed that. Been a bit down on myself and got to stop doing that, no good for my confidence in the long run (pun not intended)!

    MWW: good work on the 20. Hope your little person is better. Can't think of anything more stressful thank an ill child.

    Ruth/oscarr: feeling confident with loading now. My body seems to adapt to the intake without too much objection and my fuelling pattern seems to work for me. I went for a High5 (20g) every 4 miles or so till mile 14 and had a zipvit (51g) with 150mg of caffeine. All good, except I had the misfortune of seeing the stuff, which put me off a bit... Don't ask. Going to get some more shortly.

    Sam: thanks. Week 13, 'Cor blimey this is going quick. Only three Mondays to Paris now... I'm pleased Emma and I are doing fleet too, be good. And be really good to have Sleepy and oscarr about too. So how was your run? Got fingers crossed for you!

    Oscarr/Sleepy: really looking forward to the weekend now. Gonna be strange having a race and trying NOT to go as fast as possible. Disapline will be needed!

    mcs: hope your legs are ok. Thanks for the quote, very good! Have a good week too fella!

    Louisa: sounds like a really good 18 miles. Ive not tried doing loops before, keep telling myself I'll bail out if I do that. Should try really, build up the mental strength. Also sounds like your getting the hang of your 'issues' you tried any other gels/carbs? Might help, I found one brand made me very windy (was glad there was no one around).....
  • Will do oscarr - I'll text you as soon as we're out of the car! Will be lovely to see you!

    I'm really looking forward to my jelly babies as I gave them up for Lent and they'll be a on-off necessity.  Am also curious about this zipvit gel which I'm taking as an emergency feeling-pants-backup.

    It'll be interesting to see how you get on Craig - just try to think of it as a group training run - a very large group training run image

    You're doing a grand job - you've already got 12 gold stars on your chart; one for each week you've gotten through.  Focus on your achievements so far - your pbs and your long runs - all of which are helping to make sure you are in the best state you could be.  Then all you have to do is relax and put it all into practice. 

  • Bo - now that you have cracked 20 miles you need to start to get your head around the biggest challenge remaining which is the last 6.2 miles in Paris - most folk will say that the marathon is 2 races in one; the first 20 and the last 6 - you will have done all the training so your legs and body will be fit enough and with the right carb loading and gels you should be able to fuel up - however, it will hurt at some stage in those last 6 miles and that's where your mind comes in to grit your teeth and pull yourself through.  Hopefully, Dr Vic has given you tips on your mental prep for this. 
  • That hurt is the Wall to climb over and carry on!!!image
  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭
    Well done on all the long runs everyone! Good pacing again Craig and great to see you've done the twenty miles.

    My schedule is in tatters - no longer a schedule, but more of a wish list. I know marathon training is tough, but it's a lot tougher when I seem to catch every single bug that is doing the rounds.

    I postponed my medium-long run from Saturday, but was even more poorly on Sunday. I thought about skipping it completely, but decided that I would seriously struggle to crank out 20 miles next weekend if I missed another long run. I have taken enough immodium to last me past the marathon itself and managed to run 15 miles today (with some serious timetable adjustments). The good thing was that it felt significantly better than when I ran 17 miles last week and I haven't felt at all lethargic afterwards. I think I was too busy to feel tired.

    With luck I should be able to run my first twenty miler next Sunday, then have time to run one more before the taper. I hope two will be enough, given that my longest run so far is 17 miles. I'm struggling, but I'm hanging in there. Just.
  • Ten - keep hanging in there mate - from what Sam said last week if you manage 2x20 milers and some 15to17 milers then that will be enough to do a good marathon wrt your long runs so you certainly can still do it.  I have been really frustrated at keeping on getting mild virus's which aren't serious enough to put you to bed but leave you a bit flat - i'm going to try a lot more gels on long training runs to try and counter this (as suggested by Ruth cos your immune system takes such a hit).

    stick in there cos you're not alone - it's all part of the challenge !!

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭
    Cheers Oscarr. Fingers crossed we both get enough training done.
  • Sleepy: Do you want the energy chews I got with the sample pack? Not sure how I'd get on with them to be honest. Thanks for the comments, going to good on Sunday. Re:the gel, you've GOT to have water on hand, they are really thick and sticky.

    Oscarr: Thanks> Dr Victor and Sam both pointed to breaking the race into three sections, two 10 milers and a 10k, which is why I think we are doing a 10mm, 9:45 mm and the 8:30 mm on Sunday to practice. Dr Victor and I also talked about setting three goals: perfect, good and settle with. We also talked about running being an endurance sport, so the aim is to endure pain, discomfort and tiredness.  Hoping you get better soon and properly clear of the bug.

    Ten: As oscarr says: stick with it. Your getting the long runs in and two should do it fella.  Remember, we do these things because they hard and the reward is soooo much greater when we face adversity.

    mcs: You seen x-men 3? I treat walls like the juggernaut..... Straight though them..... OK, maybe not but careful use of carbs might be able to avoid... 

  • This mornings intervel session:

    SplitTimeDistanceAvg             PaceBest PaceAvg HRMax HRCalories

    1    10:21.3    1.05      9:54          8:48    165    185    69
    2    4:39.4    0.60        7:46         7:14    150    160    56
    3    2:00.0    0.21       9:29          7:56    147    157    22
    4    4:34.7    0.60       7:38          6:56    154    161    56
    5    2:00.0    0.20       9:54          7:30    150    160    22
    6    4:30.3    0.60       7:30          6:40    158    166    56
    7    2:00.0    0.19      10:17        8:09     156    163    24
    8    4:42.5    0.60       7:51          7:10    154    160    55
    9    2:00.0    0.19      10:38         7:45    145    158    19
    10    4:38.1    0.60     7:44          7:01    155    162    54
    11    2:00.0    0.21     9:32          8:07    145    158    17
    12    4:35.2    0.60     7:39         6:51    158    165    55
    13    2:00.0    0.20      10:07      7:32    145    158    17
    14    11:30.4    1.16     9:57       8:21    140    149    80 

    Hope that makes sense to people.... 

    Good day all. Pleasure as always


  • Morning everyone

    I think you should try those chews Bo - they're lovely - just like soft wine gums - but if you really don't want em - I'd love em! I get a bit nervous before races so not very good at eating a big breakfast so they're perfect to add to my grazing beforehand. Am gonna carry my little donut-security-blanket-bottle so will have plenty of fluid handy - thanks for the tip!

    Don't let the guys freak you out about the last 6 miles - yes it's good to have a strategy in mind but my personal experience didn't involve any dramas in the last 6 apart from a little bit of boredom! It might happen - it might not.

    Interesting data - I see your HR monitor has a similar blip to mine at the beginning and gives a false high due to lack of conductivity?  Mine settles down once I'm a bit sweatier (hmmmmm nice!) 

    One for Sam - given the lack of peaks and troughs in Bo's data should he be trying harder in his efforts and doing slower recoveries? Is this influenced by the speed vs endurance type of intervals we discussed a few moons ago?  I'm aim for 172bpm in my efforts and recovery pulse of 129bpm before next effort - I'm guessing mine'd be more at the speed end of the continuum?

  • Liking it Craig especially the Xmen analogy!!image Had to smile about when leaping stiles this am with no 2 daughter. We did a five mile interval session, she wasn't happy me telling to keep sprinting for another minute etc.  She is just getting going after a knee issue.  Hopefully on the road to recovery now!

    Boredom for the last six miles interesting SB...... I thought more physcologically very interesting where your mind goes while trying to keep your body going. Craig will be fine with all that stuff though.

  • Have just listened to Steve Smythe's vodcast on mastering the marathon where he talks through all the stages of the race, what to expect and what strategies to adopt - very good and worth a listen (click onto it from the Home page)
  • Hello there everyone,

    Sorry didn't make it on yesterday. Thanks for asking SB and BoD but, no, the run was a disaster. 12 minutes and too much pain to continue. Have been doing the dreaded online research of symptoms and I think I have acetabular impingement syndrome. Average duration of symptoms - 2 years. And strong possibility of needing surgical intervention. The physio isn't working so far, anyway. So thoroughly depressed and the swimming and cycling and cross trainer, though bearable, are no replacement for running.image

    Anyway. Ten, sorry to hear things have gone a bit awry but that's great that you managed a good 15 miler and you've still got time to get to 20, so try not to worry too much.

    SB, interesting question on Craig's intervals - he's executed them really well actually - his predicted 10k pace (based on recent half marathon and 5km time trial) is around 7.35-7.45 so the pace per interval is really good. And a good, discernible drop in pace for the recoveries. However, the heart rate doesn't change that much and I'd say that is because the recoveries are very short (2 mins) so not much chance for HR to drop before next one.
    Hello Craig, sorry to be talking about you like this! I'm not concerned about the lack of HR drop because the pace hasn't tailed off in the intervals - although there is perhaps a general trend towards them becoming slower so you could slow your pace a bit more during the recovery to get HR down and get bit more recovery.

    I never use HR in shortish intervals to be honest, SB - there's such a 'lag' between what you're doing and what your HR says that I don't find it very useful.

    Louisa, keep up the good work - doing really well. And glad you're getting to the 'bottom' of your dietary issues!image 

    Happy training everyone!

  • Oh no Sam - am really sorry to hear about your hip but don't give up hope - BIG HUG

    Interesting stuff on HR  - one more notch for the argument to sometimes train on pace vs HR - thank you for taking the time to answer.  

    mcs - No matter which way you look at it - 26.2 miles is a loooong way - maybe I'll try one of them big marathons one day - I guess having crowds en route must help in the last few miles.  I remember just wanting to get it finished by the last few miles.  Not badly enough to speed up though and there was definitely no 'leaping' by that point image

  • Sam - really sorry to hear about your injury problems, must be very frustrating for you - maybe get another physio opinion or another type of specialist to look at it?
  • Sleepy: Interesting about the heart rate peak at the start, thought there was something wrong with me (other than the obvious image) Funny about HR data, on the original screen, very up and down, all saw like, but don't show in the pure stats.  Seriously, you can have the chews, I can't even chew gum when running and struggle to swallow, period, so they would be shocking for me.  Not gonna get freaked out be the last 6, if I can get that far, it's only a little run out to get finished.  (also have mental picture ready in my head of where I would be on a training run... just in case). 

    msc: Hope your daughter has forgiven you now. .. Sounds like fun! Leeped over a fence at the weekend to avoid a family of walkers coming out of a Caravan Club site. Felt very manly and althletic doing that. 

    oscarr: tried it on my iphone, and not that it won't work.  Will have to wait till home time, but looknig forwards to it. 

    Sam: Oh no!!! On positive note, self-diagnosis are notoriously unreliable and generally massivly over estimnate the seriousness of the situation. Hoping that helps until you get a full assessment and prognosis *even crosses poorly toe that is very sore today* image Anyway, your not allowed to by long term injured, your the famous Sam Murphy, running guru. REALLY am hoping you are thinking the worst and it's no where near that serious!

  • Bad news Sam all the best for a recovery speedier than two to google that injury! Opinion no 2 or 3 might be needed me thinks.............??

  • Bo - good approach to take - don't get freaked out but great you have already got the mental pictures of things that will get you through any pain if it's needed which is a maybe yes, maybe no..
  • Thanks guys! I will definitely get further assessments but am trying to stick with one line of treatment at a time - as otherwise gets confusing as to what helps/exacerbates. Let me know if you find any miracle cures mcsimage
  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the encouragement guys and gals.

    SB/Craig - I always wet the contacts on the HRM strap before I run, otherwise I get unreliable readings until I work up enough sweat. I thought it was common practice TBH.

    Sam - In general, internet research is great. However, when it comes to researching medical conditions, a wrong diagnosis is a strong possibility. Here's hoping you find out that you would make a lousy doctor.
  • Sam - sorry to hear about the hip injury..has the physio diagnosed the syndrome?
  • Morning all

    me too Tenjiso but it sometimes starts drying out by the time I actually make it out of the door - must have super warm skin LOL

    I'm taking Rascal out for her first ever 'proper' run today - just a little cheeky half hour for this morning - I foresee lots of jogging on the spot whilst she figures out what's going on!

    Sam - I would echo the others and suggest you keep away from the self-diagnoses too - you'll make yourself feel worse!  Is there anyone else you could go to see?

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