Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
Five Year Plan - help please
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Continued...
I missed the mile markers at 22m and 24m. I mean, it's not like they are very prominent at London
This is where I started to fade and had to dig in. My average splits dropped to 9:21 and then 9:25. In part though, this was down to the garmin pace being slightly out because of the tunnels and my missing the mile markers.
In the final 5K I was hurting. I reminded myself how close I was to achieving my ambition. How I had managed to stick to my schedule in spite of everything that has happened to try to derail me. I thought how my mum had helped me during my period as a “single” parent by looking after the kids while I went out on my weekly long runs. The early mornings and MLR's on the treadmill. The flooding and the relentless winds. The least I could do would be to tough it out now, so that all the effort was worthwhile. Was the pain I was feeling any worse than running my flat-out 5k parkrun? That's all I had left to go. I visualised the parkrun. I eat 5k's for breakfast. Just keep going. I glanced up at Big Ben – I'm going to do it! Why are these people walking so close to the end? I wanted this so bad, walking was never an option at any point in the race.
I saw the finish line as the clock ticked just past four hours. I had crossed the start line a little over two minutes after the official start. I had done it! 3:58:13. A new PB by 11m 16s. That's 1.25 miles ahead of last year. I was feeling so emotional. My bottom lip was trembling and I was close to blubbing. I couldn't quite believe how well I had controlled my race. A positive split, but by less than three minutes which was about as close to even pacing as I could have dared hope. The temperature during the race climbed from 51F at the start, to 58F when I finished – so it was bound to feel a bit tougher.
Two years ago my marathon time was 4:38:54. By following the P&D 18w/55m schedule twice since, I have achieved my first real dream time. It's a fabulous program and I will continue to use it to progress towards my “ultimate” dream of a GFA time (3:15). When I originally set the GFA target, frankly it looked a bit ridiculous. Now I really am daring to dream. For now, I'm going to bask in the knowledge that I have a marathon time that starts with a three! Thank you again Messrs Pfitzinger and Douglas, and thank you to everybody who has posted feedback on various training threads.
I feel like I have come a long way since the floundering that I was doing at the start of this thread. I still have a long way to go, but I'm convinced I will get there.
Eventually
Damn, that sub 4hr time looks good on my wall
. Moving forward, I've been looking at my targets for next year.
The majority of the online calculators give me marathon times that are way too fast based on my HM/10k/5k times. The fetcheveryone improved Reigel calculator was stunningly accurate last year - until they split out the men's and women's predictions - and now it generates a marathon time that is too slow for me.
My best predictions appear to come from using Jack Daniels' VDOT tables. I've found that I can take my 5K time and predict other race distance times as follows:
10k VDOT = 5k VDOT - 1
HM VDOT = 5K VDOT - 2
Marathon VDOT = 5K VDOT - 6 (sad, but true)
2014 VDOT's are 5K = 44; HM = 42; Mara = 38 (I have no recent 10k time)
2013 VDOT's were 5K = 42; 10K = 41; HM = 40; Mara = 36
If this trend continues, then next year I'm aiming for approximately 21:00 5K, 1:40:00 HM; to achieve a 3:45 marathon. They look entirely reasonable (and hopefully achievable) for me. [Note: my training paces will probably be based on closer to 3:30 marathon pace to achieve those race times].
This is all based on my own painful experiences of crashing and burning trying to achieve times based on Macmillan and others.
This weekend, weather permitting, I'm taking my 7yo son for his first ever parkrun. I don't think I've ever looked forward to a recovery run so much!
Tenjiso - I've just read most of this thread and certainly all of the last 2 pages and I am so impressed. It's inspirational for all runners.
I'm a great believer in goals and you set out your plans and despite set backs and tough time management you still managed to train and achieve your goals.
However I'm not sure I agree with you about all the race calculators. I agree with you about the Fetch article, I had previously read the Fetch article and thought it was the biggest load of rubbish and was written for those that just didn't train enough for their marathons or ran the first half of their marathon too fast.
Have you seen the race predictors on here http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/racepaces/rp
I think it takes years to reach our potential especially in the marathon.
Off to set up my 5 year plan
Shades - thank you so much for your kind comments.
I have seen that race predictor. Using my 5K time (22:09), they average 3:32 marathon prediction, which also coincides with Jack Daniels' marathon time associated with my 5K (VDOT 44). Using my half marathon time (1:45:51) they average a more realistic (IMHO) 3:41 marathon prediction, which is again loosely in line with Jack Daniels (VDOT 42).
There is still a discrepancy between the majority of predictions and my actual performance. Perhaps it may be that I have yet to learn how to push myself and tolerate more pain in races? Whatever the reason, I do hope that I can eventually close the gap between my performance levels at longer distances. Otherwise I'll have to be running close to 18 minute 5K's to achieve a GFA
.
Good luck with your plan
Ten - do you peak at 55 miles for marathon training (P&D 33-55 plan)? And how much mileage do you run at other times of year & when setting your 5k, 10k and half PBs?
I ask because my race times are all in line with each other (except 10k that now looks a bit shit) according to most calculators (marathon slightly better) but I think it's because of a background of 45ish miles per week all year round and 65ish when mara training.
Hi Lit - yes I did peak at 55m. Outside of marathon training I was averaging 35mpw (up to 42mpw) but I did miss almost two months of running in Aug-Oct 2013 due to illness and then carelessly fracturing my toe and aggravating that injury
(all non-running related). I'm pretty sure I would have been chasing sub-3:45 (and perhaps been quicker at 5k) had I not had such an enforced break.
Oh, that's right - remember the illness thing now. 2 months would definitely make a difference. I also suspect that what you'll do as you get closer to 3:15 is gradually increase your mileage (and find it easier to do so both physically and in terms of finding time, because running quicker).
I like the sound of that!
Tenjiso - I believe that you will get a lot closer to those predicted marathon times over the next couple of years and you will become stronger. This will enable you to hold that race pace in the latter stages of the marathon.
I've spent a lot of time in the last 24 hours thinking about my 5 year plan, tonight I'm going to sketch the outline and tomorrow commit it to a spreadsheet. Time is against me regarding PB's as I'm 57 now but I still think I have one or two marathon PB's in me but I have other goals regarding ultras and think I could PB at ultra distances as long as all my training goes well.
Shades - I love the enthusiasm and commitment to your plan! I found the greatest difficulty was trying to set realistic annual targets towards the ultimate goal. Ultimately, they don't really matter as long as I keep making progress. If it takes seven years instead of five, for example, it is better than never giving it a go.
I've just run my most enjoyable recovery run ever! I took my 7yo son for his first parkrun (and his longest run to date). He was so excited, and I loved every minute running alongside him. I reigned him in at the start so he wouldn't set-off too fast and then let him dictate the pace (including a little walking) from about half way. We finished with a short sprint and his time was 32:50 (avg. 10:35 pace). Most importantly, he enjoyed it and wants to go again next week. I'm so proud of him.
Now I remember exactly why I began running in the first place!
Hi Tenjiso - what a great result and on the back of some bad times from the sound of it! Congratulations! And an excellent race report too. So what else do you have planned for this year?
Thanks Peter. I haven't booked any races yet, but I'll probably go for a 10k or two in July-Sept, and a half marathon later in the year. My plan is to work more on speed during the summer, while keeping up a reasonable level of endurance. How about you - are you back to regular training/racing?
Good stuff! No, not yet - I keep thinking it'll be soon but hopefully not too far off now. Thanks for asking. I can recommend a cracker of a 10k - in fact it is the Knacker Cracker at Box Hill in Dorking on New Year's day - it's more for the fun of it (plenty of fancy dress and hills) but very satisfying and good training! Definitely no PB potential though.
As you know I go the other way where performances are concerned, & my marathon times are too good!
It was hard work this year at VMLM, coming out of Pen 5 as usual. I had a PB as well, 3:54:37, and now looking to go better at York in October.
Was wondering if you'd consider a less hectic marathon.
I added in Speedflex this year, but stuck with my lighter schedule & didn't exceed 40ish miles even at peak.
I did go long though - 4 runs over 20, of which my longest run was over 25 miles.
Wish I'd been able to meet you at the finish, I would have loved that!
Whoop whoop there will be no holding you back now.
Hi Reikki - congratulations on your PB! I had already checked
. Were you on the Blue start? If so, I don't understand why you were in zone 5 and I was in zone 4 
So at some point you went flying past me!
Given that any marathon is less hectic than London - I have booked up for the 2015 Brighton Marathon
(I ran my 2013 marathon there), and I'm looking forward to it already! It's a great marathon to consider if ever you want a change from London. I'll still enter the VMLM ballot, but with the intention of securing a place for 2016.
I'm tempted by the idea of an Autumn marathon, such as York or Abingdon - but I'm going to hold off for another year or two.
I am hopefully going to be able to do York this year [was too wrecked last year wth a neural injury that kept me out for weeks].
It doesn't mean I'll do a lot better, and in any case I don't have your capapcity to improve - being held back might be doing me a favour!
Just read through the whole of this thread and it is brilliant to see how much progress you have made and shows just what can be done if you set your mind to it. Congratulations at your PB for London and good luck for the rest of the year
Reikki - good luck for York! I'm thinking I might enter for 2016. Early morning training runs are much easier during the lighter hours.
Scott - thank you for your kind words. Hopefully I can continue progress.
Tenjiso - if you do decide on an autumn marathon this year, I've heard Chester is a fast course and comes highly recommended. York is full and I expect Abingdon is too.
Well I settled down at the computer yesterday and started putting together my 5 year plan but it's going to take me longer to plan it than expected
. I've done the plan for the next few months but need to define my longer term goals.
Shades - don't tempt me with Autumn marathons this year!
I have plenty on my plate with work and study, otherwise I would be booking up right now.
It helps to start with the long-term goal and work backwards. I think of the five year plan loosely - it could well turn out to be six or seven years. I broke down my long term target into annual targets that I thought might be achievable. There is an element of guesswork, but also backed-up by examples of people on Pof10/RunBritain I found who had made similar improvements over time (Bob Groves, mentioned in my OP, was a good example for me). It got me thinking about what I had to achieve in order to make my ultimate goal - e.g. 5k/10/HM times each year, etc. It took some time, but is highly motivating. It has made a huge difference after years of stagnation.
I figure that it doesn't really matter when/if I actually make the ultimate target. The process will make me the best I can be.
One other aspect of my "training" that I forgot to mention...
I used "myfitnesspal" to track my calorie consumption and expenditure. I started the year weighing 176lb, and had dropped to 158lb by the time the marathon rolled around. Pretty much my ideal racing weight!
Although I'm allowing myself to gain some weight right now, I'm intending to keep a tighter control over it and stay close to optimal.
Tenjiso - I've heard great reports of myfitnesspal but it's not suitable for me, I can't be bothered with all that logging of data. I cook all my food from scratch and don't always stick to the recipe or use the same recipe so it's too much of a faff to calculate. I've done a schedule for weight loss, just have to stick to it. I know how much I can eat...just have to stay away from that extra toast which I adore
I'm still toying with the longer term goals though as it's actually quite hard to find time to think/plan. I maybe also want to have another go at a 24 hour track event, done 3 in the past but never successfully so I have unfinished business there!
I have a marathon next week, my first this year so that will give me a base figure to start from
Great pic of you and your son at the Park run I guess.
Shades - thanks - yes, that is a pic from the recent parkrun. Good luck with the marathon! How many do you do in a year?
Getting the plan started is the hardest part. It's almost disappointingly easy to keep an eye on once the milestones are decided. Though not quite so easy to keep up with the targets
. Sometimes, it does feel a bit odd to be planning a whole year's training around achieving a fifteen minute improvement on my marathon time. Make the ultimate goal a big one (but achievable, with effort).
I'm not recording my food right now. But I'll go back to it if my weight starts creeping up. I don't think it really matters how we go about recording our food intake. Simply being aware of what we shovel in our mouths helps to control it!
Tenjiso - last year I did my highest total ever of 29 ( that includes 6 ultras), I was aiming to reach a certain milestone during the year. Normally I run about 20 but this year I will be at about 16, that's including the ultras. I already have my race schedule sorted for this year, race entries, travel etc. all mostly done but I will slot in a few shorter local races just to assess my training.
A 15 minute marathon PB is a huge improvement and it is achieved by long term training, as you've shown.
I also have goals I'd like to achieve in ultras too so am listing those too!
Some of you may be familiar with my affinity for the Rocky movies. The big draw card with this guy is that for all intents and purposes he has nothing particular special about him. He's not strong, fast, intelligent or rich. Yet through sheer determination he is able to overcome any obstacles put in his way and triumph. I find so many similarities with running. It has taught me that anyone can achieve their goals through hard work and determination, and once you do, you can continually draw on those achievements when needed in many other non-running related aspects throughout your life. It acts as a real inspiration.
Shades - I'm speechless!
No wonder you're struggling to think of a goal - you've got most of them covered already! 
RW - certainly agree that hard work and determination are key. Often when people are assumed to be extremely talented (i.e. a "natural"), they happen to spend eight hours a day practising their "natural" talent. They are the ones who keep going when all others have stopped. Either that, or they take drugs
Nobody can say I have an easy ride with this training lark.
This week I've been struck with Vertigo for the first time in my life. The mornings feel like I have a hangover from hell with the room spinning and nauseousness. Kinda ironic, when I haven't had alcohol for the best part of eight years
. I have tablets to reduce pressure in the ears and they do seem to help, though there is always some level of giddiness remaining.
At the moment I'm clinging onto the belief that this is a short-term temporary state of affairs. I'm not running right now, of course.
Tenjiso - sorry to hear you're suffering with vertigo. I don't know much about it but surely it should clear up fairly soon and I hope you're back running soon.
My training is going well, 3 marathons completed this year and each one faster than the last (so far). Nowhere near PB times yet but am working steadily towards long term improvements
Just a quick check-in...
I've been so busy with work and study/assessments that I haven't been posting on forums - hence my radio silence
Running has taken a bit of a back seat too, but I'm just about doing enough to tick over. Averaging three runs a week - two five milers and one of 10m or more.
I seem to be making some breakthroughs at work and I've finally caught up with my studies, so hopefully I'll be able to gradually increase the amount of running I am doing.
Hi Tenjiso - Good news that you should soon be able to spend a bit more time running, ready for the training for your next target race.
I'm training well and working towards my goals, had a go at breaking my 10 mile PB on Sunday but the course was too tough and although I was doing well at PB pace I blew up at 6.5 miles and had to potter the next 3 miles until I'd recovered and managed a sprint finish.
Never mind, will keep trying!