Overdone it?

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  • Let’s just say you picked me Mace and move on. Hope the toe isn’t too knackered and work sorts itself out now the tax return frenzy is over and done with.
  • macemace ✭✭✭
    How are things now muddy ? You can afford to have a bit of time off, you'll get the fitness back soon enough.

    Fortunately just bad bruising it seems ..... i managed a test run this morning which went well enough to end up with 9M. Toe is fine, knee still doesn't feel right at times though, maybe (and feels like) a recurrence of the patellofemoral problem i had a few years back so will have to tape it up for the longer runs. 

    Lit, McF - well done on the 20 milers, i'm quite jealous !!
  • literatin said:

    Boing! 

    Haha - first time I looked at this photo - I saw the knocked over plant pot but didn't notice the puppy nailed to the wall!
  • McFloozeMcFlooze ✭✭✭
    and me, it's like spot the puppy!  

    Mace - good to hear your foot is ok.  If you can manage 9 ok then I'd say it's not too bad.  

    Don't be too jealous of the 20 miler. It left me with a mahoosive blister on the sole of my foot which I was in agony with last night - maybe a bit infected?  I put some antibiotic ointment on and have taped it up to walk on it at work, really bloody hurts though.  Ideas? I took a day off yesterday so ideally I'd like to run today.  It's right behind the ball of my foot, just going into the arch and is about 2 inches long.    
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    Ninja pup - he'd just launched himself off the top of that box to resume his attack on the evil flowerpot. He's a bit bigger now but just as bouncy.

    Ouch McFlooze! I used to get blisters there as well sometimes - i put it down to scratchy socks in the end though I have no ideas about how to manage it now it's happened.
  • macemace ✭✭✭
    edited February 5
    McF - Treatment = burst it with a pin and soak in salt water. Last LR i did was 16 a few weeks back and my feet were a mess until the pin came out

    Prevention =  can't think of the name of it now but 'Tom something or other' rings a bell, bought it at Brighton mara expo a few years back. Keeps feet dry, helps with friction and i have a noticable absence of blisters when i use it.

    Edit - '2Toms Blister Shield' 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭


    I use gehwol foot cream. It is about £7 a tube on amazon and very effective. It's recommended for amputees etc.

    Nice 20's mcf and Lit.

    I have just been out for a big old session. 1.5 wu and 0.75 cd with 10 at tempo effort in the middle. Came out 64.35 with 6.27mm average. Pleased with my consistent splits as well-

    6.32, 6.28, 6.30, 6.28, 6.27, 6.25, 6.22, 6.28, 6.27 and 6.26. First half was a bit of a cruise, but second half I was working for it. I'm quite tired now.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited February 5
    Well done on the parkrun Skinny and the fitness improvements. Excellent week McF; same too DT on the mileage. Good lunchtime outing David, and 3 x 2mile is always a tough session Kevin. Do you think you might try a short no stress race sometime soon to start to address the issues you were having ?

    Well, I am back at work and managed a couple of painful runs over the weekend. I marshalled parkrun on a freezing Saturday morning, and it was so annoying watching, afterwards I bit the bullet and tried a run with the  aid of painkillers. That was ok, so I joined in on the pre-booked 10m cross country race on a lovely (but very cold) Sunday morning - with the ground being fairly firm, there wasn't much risk of slippage. Originally I'd planned it to be part of my 18 miles with 10 marathon effort session but I was warned off strenuous activity by the GP so I took it very easy and bimbled round in 72 mins, then followed that later in the day with 5 miles even slower. That slightly rescued the week in mileage terms, so it could be considered a first cut back week since 22nd December and not too disruptive to marathon plans. However I will continue to take things very easy, though I have stopped taking the painkillers as they messed up my stomach, so it remains to be seen how much I can take without them.
    Why would you then do a second run the SAME day? You utter nutter  :o

    In fairness it doesn't get on my "all time" nutter list, which includes the following

    • Local competitive woman being so "disappointed" by her marathon, that she did another 5miles the same day!
    • Local guy, did MK marathon (2.45 or so?) in the morning, and a 5mile race in the afternoon (still a 30:xx job on an undulating course). Then raced a 5k the next evening! 

    Had totally disappeared off the scene this last couple of years, injured, arguably unsurprisingly!
    I find that little run of races utterly insane. I do fairly decent mileage, but if I tried to even run 26miles, I wouldn't be able to run later in the day, let alone race back to back!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited February 5
    DT19 said:


    I use gehwol foot cream. It is about £7 a tube on amazon and very effective. It's recommended for amputees etc.

    Nice 20's mcf and Lit.

    I have just been out for a big old session. 1.5 wu and 0.75 cd with 10 at tempo effort in the middle. Came out 64.35 with 6.27mm average. Pleased with my consistent splits as well-

    6.32, 6.28, 6.30, 6.28, 6.27, 6.25, 6.22, 6.28, 6.27 and 6.26. First half was a bit of a cruise, but second half I was working for it. I'm quite tired now.

    Hang on, hang on, 10miles, at your 10mile race effort/pace? Or are you classing tempo as something else?

    The former would be one hell of an effort. Certainly beyond the likes of me. 
    I could barely hit my 10mile pace within a 10mile race last time out ;)


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    SG, no i dont think I'd manage 10 at race pace. i would use the term threshold for that if i did. This is a key tune up for the Village Bakery half in 12 days. I'm hoping this is about 10 seconds a mile slower than what i can manage for a half right now. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    And yes, both the above scenarios are idiotic. At least the one guy was racing. The women though is simply going out to punish herself. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited February 5
    Fair does DT. "Tempo" as a form of a run, rather than it being an equivalent word for Threshold (like Moz for example used to use)

    Well, that's alright then, perhaps a "MP" session then...as in actual MP, rather than the "Theoretical" or "Continuous Threshold" pace i'd use :)

    Takes a lot of thrashing out at times all this...I had to start calling it the "CT" pace, to avoid both people asking if i was "doing a marathon", getting irritated by it, or lessening the session - 10miles at the CT pace for me would be an utter cataclysmic ruining job. 10miles at what I'd probably run a marathon at, at least early doors, much more manageable, and what I'd probably call "steady", but still tiring, and a fair workout for that length.

    (Of course, in theory the 2 could "align", but that'd be a long way down the road, and I doubt i'd ever be running marathons at 6- 6.10!)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited February 5
    The comedy when I used to race the multiple race guy, was I'm fairly tall and run upright, and he's pretty short, and runs like he's scouring the ground looking for something he's lost.

    A right old old couple!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes it does all get very confusung! Mp runs are great sessions but they can often confuse people as you say. Also there are two forms of mp as you state. A session designed to drill into and practice a very specific pace that you intend holding for a full mara, or the continuous tempo. This is probably a good 10 seconds a mile faster than what I'd class as continuous tempo, purely based on my average HR and 15-20 seconds a mile faster than a drill down mp session . It is definitely closer to hm pace than that. 
  • mace said:
    McF - Treatment = burst it with a pin and soak in salt water.
    DT19 said:


    I use gehwol foot cream. It's recommended for amputees etc.

    McFlooze - perhaps you need a hacksaw and some gehwol foot cream?
  • Stunning session DT - well done. My 10 mile PB is only 63:19 although never ran one at a time when I was particularly fit.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited February 5
    10miles towards HMP sounds a hell of a session then.
    What's your current pb/average pace for one?

    I took on an old pal as a coach for a couple of months (not sure if you read on the other thread any snippets)
    What at first seemed an intimidating zone of "Threshold", I was surprised to find was a totally different pace depending on time of rep. To me that seemed an odd idea, but i was brought up on the Moz style of a zone has a name.

    It did make sense how people could do these epic 15-20min shifts at what sounded bloody fast. They weren't doing, they were doing the continuous MP version, up to a good 10secs a mile slower :D

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited February 5
    Thanks, Skinny. 

    Sg, pb is 83.35 from September so 6.22mm. I have this monkey on my back at minute that ive never been successful in a race of 10 mile or half mara in running sub 6.20mm as my average pace. My 10 mile pb is bang on 6.20mm pace. 

    It's a bit like when the battle i had trying to get my 10k time under 40 minutes years back. it took ages. 
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    That sounds like hard work DT, but also sounds like you are pretty fit just now. I think I only ever managed to string that many 6:30ish miles together on a training run back when I was actually fast, and before I was anaemic, and I still reckon that would have been MP without the anaemia.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    DT, if you're doing a training run a minute or so slower than your pb, then that sounds very promising for your next 10mile race. I'd get one in asap.*

    *on the presumption you aren't like my local mate "Mad" Dom.
    A chap who not only leads every race he ever does for 1/4mile, but also does his solo tempos very close to the pace he races - the last time, actually doing the race slower!

    When i see his strava, and see he's done a solo HM, about 4-5secs slower a mile than he's racing it, it really is madness.

    (You're too sensible for all this though, so get a 10miler in ;) )


    Lit, get back on it! You're not 70. You can still threaten your pbs, or at least get some highly ranked ones in your records  <3 <3

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    Yeah I know, I've just not got quite enough time to build up to my target races from my current fitness level this season.
  • Stevie G said:

    Why would you then do a second run the SAME day? You utter nutter  :o


    I think because neither of my runs were at all fast or strenuous (I walked some hills), I don't really compare with those two you mentioned. As to why ? Just because I'm gearing up for a marathon and didn't do a long run the week before, and the pain wasn't too bad with the painkillers.

    Mace - Glad the toe is ok, I am able to run very gently and I'm being very mindful of compensation injuries.

    DT - Good session - I may well be doing Village Bakery at marathon effort the way things are feeling at the moment so we could end up in a race !
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Or you could pace me.....

  • DT - Good session - I may well be doing Village Bakery at marathon effort the way things are feeling at the moment so we could end up in a race !
    DT19 said:
    Or you could pace me.....
    Muddy is your Marathon Effort pace inside or outside a 1:21:45 HM?
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Skinny, currently after my last 2 crap half maras, I'll settle for anything below 83.35!

    I was just looking, had I continued my run yesterday to a full half that would have been 84.33. I was actually chipping away at my average pace in the second half so no reason why I would have slowed. Therefore adding in the race day magic (for those of us that believe) and the benefit of a taper next week (last week was my highest ever mileage week so carrying some fatigue), I really should be well placed to be pushing pb time.

  • DT19 said:

    Skinny, currently after my last 2 crap half maras, I'll settle for anything below 83.35!

    No pressure but truly it is time you were running faster HMs than my PB based on your training miles and times.

    84:33 less even 15 secs per mile 'race day magic' over 13 miles would give you 1:21:18 - you can do it and well done if you do.
  • kevin70kevin70 ✭✭✭
    Tempo, marathon pace, threshold, CT...... confuses me :s  Can you do a tempo at any paces i.e. mp/hmp. Got a hm next weekend bit hilly but hopefully can run it at some pace:)
  • For a hilly half you want to be thinking mainly about effort rather than pace adherence Kevin. Don't blow yourself up on the hills.

    Skinny - I ran a couple around the 1.21/1.22 level for marathon effort in the preparation for Hull. At the moment marathon effort would probably come out about 6.10 min/mile, but I can't actually put that to the test for a bit.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Skinny, yes you are right, however I suppose we have to factor in that perhaps you had  amore generous dose of running genetics than I have.

    Kevin, yes you can in my view. People often use tempo to describe a threshold run which is  a very specific pace range. For me tempo is a run at a particular pace that isn't easy running. So if I did 8 at mp that for me would be an mp tempo run. If my tempo run was at threshold I would simply describe it as a threshold run. I don't really venture too close to threshold for long periods as they are very hard!

  • DT19 said:

    Skinny, yes you are right, however I suppose we have to factor in that perhaps you had  amore generous dose of running genetics than I have.

    Amore amore  <3 <3

    Anyhow I might have but I'm basing my statement on what you are achieving in your training and how you should be able to convert on race day. Don't be shit.
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