P + D training for VLM 2013

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  • Well done with the racing NN/Stutyr.

    DP4 – outstanding!

    Al – you beat me to it! I was about to post earlier and got summoned to dinner (I'm not complaining, though). That's great pacing, congratulations on a brilliant run!

    My ankle felt fine this morning, so my only problem was the hacking cough. Using my extensive medical knowledge I determined that it was not in the chest and I was good to go. I arrived in good time for numerous toilet visits (I lost count). It was cold, but not as cold as it has been recently. Like Stutyr, my toes were a bit numb on the start line, but other than that I just wanted to get going. Unexpectedly, the sun came out and we had blue sky as the race started – though it didn't last for too long (thankfully – otherwise I'd have been roasting in my girly tights).

    I felt the hairs stand up on the back of my neck when the klaxon sounded and the F1 theme tune (Fleetwood Mac) played. Brilliant touch image

    My target was 1:50 and I had grabbed a pace band before the start of the race. Just as well, as it was a challenge to pace the race when the garmin was registering short on so many miles. The cloudy day probably didn't help, and I guess I didn't stick well enough to the racing line. I had “autolap” on, and ended up with about 23 “laps”! My worst paced mile was mile five, and I put it down entirely to the garmin clocking up the mile a full thirty-seven seconds ahead of the course marker (no – I didn't stop for a Paula), followed by mile two where it was out by twenty-eight seconds. I made the time back and at mile ten I was bang-on 1:23:58, which was exact pacing for the 1:50 finish (though I didn't actually realise it at the time). I found the concentrating on pace adjustments harder work than the actual running at times. In total, the garmin registered a full 0.25 miles further than the race distance. I always concentrated on the current lap, but it didn't help that it was short so often.

    I took a Sis Go gel instead of water at 3-4m, and another one at 9-10m. I grabbed a couple of small sips of water somewhere around 7m and 11m. Going by how I felt back at home, I didn't hydrate enough during the race (it took an hour to stop shivering and glug plenty of fluids – oh and eat my traditional post race Christmas pudding and cream).

    There was a fair headwind going up an incline around miles 9-10 and I found myself slowing, along with most other people around me. Once I realised this I remembered my bitch of a hill at 9m on my long runs, and found the energy to get back on pace. I knew I wouldn't be far away from my target as I pushed through to the finish with a kind-of-sprint-though-not-quite. The last 0.11m was at 6:40 pace.

    So the splits, adjusted for garmin cock-ups were:

    8:24/8:37/8:05/8:11/8:49/8:25/8:30/8:15/8:24/8:18/8:34/8:26/8:24/0:46

    It's out a few seconds for roundings, and my final chip time was 1:50:04. That's more than four months training wasted for the sake of four seconds!! Nah, seriously, I'm chuffed to bits image It is my new PB by 4:54 minutes, and beats last years March half-marathon by 11.5 minutes! What makes this even better is achieving it only a week after my longest ever training run (22m) with only a mini-taper!

    The downside of this is that it means that I might actually be capable of making my marathon target, and must keep training to make that target. D'oh!

    Overall I really enjoyed Silverstone. The organisation went like clockwork and it wasn't too bad leaving the venue afterwards. I can't understand a lot of the comments by nay-sayers about the race, though I suppose they may have ironed out kinks from earlier years. Good value for

  • money too, which is unusual for such a big event on the calendar. It's the first time I've run a race from start to finish surrounded by other runners. Although there was occasional bunching, it wasn't too bad as people seemed to be running the right pace and there were loads of overtaking opportunities (or, in my case, being overtaken opportunities

    I finished inside the top 30%, which I'm happy with because I aim to get in the top half image

  • Al runs great result for you & your girlfriend.



    Ltb, you want to do the intervals in the middle of the session, so two miles warm up then four miles including the sessions. This leaves 2 miles for the co down
  • Some really impressive runs today, NN and Stu sounds like great races. image

    Dave, Al and Ten more pb's smashed, brilliant! image

    ..............and some really good long runs from Lit,15W, NP, Chick and Craig, well done.

    I think theres going to be some really good marathons next month, i wonder if some of us aiming for sub 3 might be running together at London.

  • Ziggy, from what youve described it just sounds like your muscles are a bit tight.

    Also do you do any strengthening exercises on your calfs?

    Ive mentioned it a few times on this thread but my physio has recommended eccentric calf drops and it has made me so much stronger, have a look at the exercises on google im pretty certain it would sort out your calf issues pretty quickly.

  • Thanks Lit and stutyr
  • Hey Ten - nice race report, and excellent time and pacing. I was looking out for you at the end then realised I'd forgotten your race number...

    Stutyr - sorry didn't see your race post. Excellent time and nicely on course for sub3.15.

    Who's racing next weekend then?

  • mark1981 wrote (see)

    I think theres going to be some really good marathons next month, i wonder if some of us aiming for sub 3 might be running together at London.

    Well I'd definately be up for it if there was some way of meeting up/organising it - count me in

    PS - Many congrats with the PB Ten, that is a massive chunk to take off - brilliant running image

  • mark1981 wrote (see)

    I think theres going to be some really good marathons next month, i wonder if some of us aiming for sub 3 might be running together at London.

    Keen but my idea of sub3 is going to be 2:59.59. I'd be happy just to be able to keep some of you other sub3ers on the horizon!

  • Don't worry Al, I'll be on the championship start but aiming for 3:15, so you'll probably all overtake me en masse in the first mile.

  • Al Runs wrote (see)

    Hey Ten - nice race report, and excellent time and pacing. I was looking out for you at the end then realised I'd forgotten your race number...

    Cheers Al.  I didn't look for you, because I assumed you'd be back home with your feet up before I crossed the line image 

  • NN: great HM time and podium place in age cat. Belated Happy Birthday.  imageimage

    stu: well raced - sub 1:30 is yours next time.

    Crikey Dave -- that's one hell of a fast HM time and great postition overall.  

    NP: still banging out the mega miles image

    15w: 24 miles  image!  No wonder you are knackered ...

    Al Runs: great family HM outing - 15 mins off - your other half must be well chuffed.

    Ten: great result and a fantastic race report image

    ZiggyTheSpider wrote (see)

    My long run lasted a total of three miles before I had to stop due to a sharp pain in my left calf. (I've never had pain there before but it feels similar to a problem I had in my right calf about a year ago.)

    Been applying ice and compression all day but am worried that I'll have to rest it for weeks. Gutted.


    (((Ziggy))) - image maybe it's just tightness that a good deep tissue massage can sort. Crossing my fingers for you.

  • NightNurse - well done, that is a cracking paced race that I know I would be absolutely chuffed to bits with.  You did so well, you are not getting slower at 50, yes I know your PB is a bit faster but come on, you are a hell of a great runner at any age.  Be proud! 

    DP - bloody hell!  That is fantastic and a great confidence boost! 

    Stutyr  - well done as well, that sounds like you are well on your way to where you need to be pace wise and hope you are chuffed with yourself today. 

    Al Runs - another bloody great race, Jesus, we are smashing the races this weekend - well done to you too! 

    Ten - I hope you are duly proud of yourself!  Look how far you have come in such a short time.  There is a lot more pace in you yet, believe in yourself mate.

    15W - cracking 24 miler, are you aiming for sub 2:50? 

    No Pain - I see you are trying to compete with me... 22.5 miles you say?!  image Well done - 6 on the trot is mighty ace. 

    Literatin - well done also on your 22, how do you feel today? 

    Well, I did my 16 miles with 12 at MRP - here are stats for NN to have a gaze over as I cannot be arsed to put splits down.  I ran first 4 miles at recovery pace then met a friend from club at mile 4, had a snickers then we went on the 12 MRP miles together.  I had no problems with the MRP pace, it felt very easy and I had tonnes left in the tank and felt come mile 16, I was ready to ramp up a bit to around 8:20 BUT my foot is sore.  It niggled through the run and then today, it is worse than ever. I am gutted.  I am going to see podiatrist today at 4:20pm and really hope it isn't bad news.  I have trained since mid Dec for this and to get so so close and feel I could smash it, I would be devastated if I miss it.  Keep your fingers crossed everyone.  

    Stats are here NN - what do you think, do you think I have MRP right at around 8:30? I felt very strong (bar the foot causing me worry). 

    HeOw's 16 miler

  • Phew one day off from here, long run and race day, and the pace of postings is more impressive than some of the VO2 runsimage

    Great running all round and well done to those that picked up HM PBs.  Glad people enjoyed Silverstone, though I've heard getting away from there was a pain.

    The weather looked perfect when I got up, had a cup of tea and then headed out.  No wind really and cool but not icy like it has been so hat and gloves not required.  Slow pace for first 5 miles, average 9.18 min miles.Picked up pace a bit and the next 15 averaged 8.30, with a few big hill climbs in was pleased to hold the  average. At 20 miles thought I would check what was left in the tank and pushed a bit harder for a 7.45 mile then finished the final mile at 8.46.  Total run of 22.01 miles in 3.10.51, average 8.42 min miling. 

    Garmin says 2039 calories which was partially filled by a lamb shoulder roast and rhubarb crumble

  • Excellent runs and race reports over the weekend.

    HeOw - See what the pod says and RICE.

    just under 22 for me in just over 2.45 yesterday with 4 at pmp from 15-19. Happy enough.

  • Morning all - everyone aching out there? I actually have a sports massage today with 50% off due to my last appointment being cancelled because of the fire. Going to ask him/her to give my ITB band a good going over, so to speak.

    HeOw - no - not planning on 2.50. Sticking with 2.55 and think I'll find that a struggle. We'll see on the day, hopefully I'll feel fresher after a decent taper. Well done on your MP run by the way. Hope all well with the foot - where is the pain? It will probably feel better after a day's rest.

    Ten - good report! Didn't get round to reading yesterday as was knackered from run, then knackered from playing with crazy puppy, then knackered after a couple of cans of fosters.

  • Just under 22, Men? You mean you're not one of these obsessives that'll do an extra couple of laps around the block to make up the exact mileage? Great running anyway, and from JF50.

    HeOw, is it the same foot problem as before?

  • Icing it as I type Men. Yes, why JUST UNDER 22 miles...? You slacking?!



    Thanks 15. You'll nail 2:55 but surely even dropping a minute or two from your Chester time be an achievement? Gets so much harder to smash the minutes as you peak towards your fastest time surely?



    JF50 - brilliant long run, surely you're aiming towards 3:30?



    No literatin, different issue, remember I bought the Mizuno's? Well, they're shit and must have pressed down on tendon or nerve and it's been a bit creaky when I move my toes but not painful. It niggled few times on my last runs and I'm back to my Brooks Ghosts (bought new pair on Friday) but it is wore today. Doing one of the hardest sessions of the plan last night (although it didn't feel hard) but it obviously has pushed foot too much. Hopefully it's nothing too sinister.
  • Thanks guys/gals image

    JF50 - Silverstone is notorious for parking and access problems, but TBH I didn't think it was too bad at all.  Getting in was smooth as you like.  Getting out took about 20 minutes or so, which was surprisingly good given the number of people hitting a single road.

    HeOw - I hope your foot problem is minor.  Maybe it's a bit like my ankle problem that was caused by my shoe laces being tied to tightly.  A week of running with looser laces seems to have cured the problem.  So hopefully you've expedited recovery by quickly changing the shoes back to the Brooks.

  • Just under 22 - phoned up the missus halfway through run and told her would meet her at a local pub for Sunday dinner and get shut of all the b*llocks of cooking and cleaning etc. Got there in 21 miles and started running up the road to get to 22 but they passed me after .35 of a mile so I turned round and ran back. Then did a quick mop down naked in the cart park - changed - and into the finest recovery drink known to man - Peroni! It did cross my mind to plod the extra .15 before turning round but given i had added four at pmp figured It would do.

    HeOw - Hope the foot is benefitting from the icing. How did the parkrun go??

  • HeOw target time is a quandary.  2008 when I was only 54image I ran 3.33, i was targeting 3.30.  So 8.07 per mile average.  My splits were pretty good to 40km and then slowed for the final 2km.

    This time, 5 years older I thought 3.40 was good working off my current HM times.  However this is the most serious programme I have used and it's probably having an effect, but is that effect enough to pace at 8 minute miling from the start, and possibly die later on, or be conservative (safe).

    Any thoughts from anybody?

  • Sat in bed feeling like shite !! think its food poisoning not sure but spent night chucking up..meant to be going to my sons in Surrey today to see the grand kids but cant face getting out of bed let alone a 200 mile drive..anyway enough self pity !!
    Just quick post congratulating yesterdays other racers

    Ten you start fab well done on the massive PB and great race report, I a a little lazy when it come to writing race reports but enjoy reading others..
    Dave nice run congrats on the pb..!! I forgot actually about the hilly bits in the first half, but I think overall the downhill compensated and the nice dead flat  5-6 miles..but my god wasn't it cold...the worst bit for me was the massive bit of chocolate cake I bit into in the club house, it looked yummy but was full of egg shell !! wonder if that's my problem today image?? either that or the birthday meal I had last night, only had steak jacket and salad in a nice restaurant find it hard to believe it was that ! image and only 1 glass of wine so definitely not drink related..
    AL well done to you and your girlfriend that is a massive pb for her..image

    Oh quick one for Heow..yes I would say 8.20-8.30 is spot on for marathon pace if it felt comfortable (DID YOU USE THE HRM ? ) giving your recent half time, we run about the same pace but  its always hard to predict as some people slow down more than others..even if shorter race times are the same, I find I get better the further I run..but I do tend o to start of a bit conservatively, when I did my 3.40 I was aiming for 3.45 so I ran I ran a 1.52 but had loads left  then a 1.48 second half image I would aim for 8.30s giving you a 1.50 to 1.51 first half  they say double half times and add 10 mins but it thats generous so add 10 mins per half thats what I do its better to finish feeling strong  than staggering around the last 6 miles ....you do see some sorry sights in the last 10k dont you.. I hope it goes ok at the pods I though it was all sorted an just a cyst that would go away ?
    right that's it ..back to self pity again.image  boo hoo 

  • JF50 you are similar pace to myself and Heow, have you raced a half recently ? what is your recent half time..and unless you are sure of a 3.30 then NO NO NO  dont go off at 8s but then I am a chicken...when you die in a marathon you die..there is no point in starting off at 8s and crawling in at 11s....bet the blokes wont agree with me image

     

  • Night Nurse: NP will agree with you, he's been giving me that very same lecture about not starting off too fast!

    And sorry to hear about the food poisoning, and from your birthday cake too! image Or perhaps you have norovirus just like the Queen.

  • Its all still a quandry on pacing to be honest NN. I am currently varying between settling for 3.10 GFA time (a comfortable 7.15 pace) or going all out for 2.55 (6.40)which would give some room for fade for a 3 hour finish. Its all such a nightmare to decide! Think I'll just see how the next few weeks go and even then may just make it up on the day.

  • Lit the choc cake wasn't my birthday cake thankfully,,  .. but the race organisers make loads of home made cakes for the finish it was one of those ..I didn't like to complain and embarrass the poor woman who made it..

    Chris whats your marathon pb ?As for the pacing well its the same old story really, the marathon is a bitch who will bite you if you dont respect her.my brother keeps asking me the same, he ran 4.30 last year and wants sub 4.15, he just text  me  to Say he had done his first 20 miler yesterday in 3.03..which is just over 9s (as if you didnt know )..and is now asking me if he should target sub 4..what do I say ?..up to me the answer would be no way !!..but its hard as I wouldnt want someone to under perform ! ..I still reckon play safe..image and there is one hell of a difference betwen pacing a 2.55 over a 3.10..if you go off at 2.55 pace and arent trained for it you will end up blowing up and not even getting the 3.10..but then again I always played safe and maybe could have done better when I was younger..image too late now..

  • NN - get well soon!

    I think I'm going to go for even pacing for my marathon.  I tried deliberately setting out slower than target pace last year, but still ended up slow at the end with no chance of making up the time.  That was pretty demoralising and I under-performed (in hindsight).

    So far I've made the mistakes of starting out too quickly image and starting out too slowly, so it's time to give even pacing a shot. image  I figure, if I get to twenty miles on target pace I'll smash last years time even if I slow down a fair bit over the last 10k.

    Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind image

  • Ten my first post was meant to say you star not you start !! lol..I know what you mean looking at my spilts yesterday where the hell did I find a 7.08 final mile ? should I have started faster ?? who knows ..I also feel I under performed in my best marathon , but got my gfa which is what I set out to do..its a tough call, this year all I want is to go SUB 3.40..I do feel on a good day with the right conditions I could get nearer 3.35 or under..for me now at 51 years old  GFA is only sub 4 anyway so worst way I should get that..but its not over till its over the worse thing for me to happen is the sun come out image image I dont run well in the heat.

  • (((NN))) hope you can shake the vomiting bug. Could be the norovirus. I think it's still making the rounds. Floored me for good in January imageimageimage

  • NN I will need to be 65 before that becomes GFA, still currently 3.15 for me though it would be 3.30 next year.  3.15 for me is out of the question, but perhaps a stab at 3.30 on a flat fast course in a years time?  I'm with Chris a bit though on the starting pace, should I go for those 8s or go conservative at 8.15, will make my mind up by the end of the month.

    HM wise I am running them about the 1.45 mark nowadays but that is on no real specific training, just my normal weekly GA mileages and pace.  I was running 1.37 HM when I ran the 3.33M.. I am running the Colchester HM on the 17th March, had planned to race it but with no taper to see what I could do on tired legs, should help with my decision.

    Hope the food poisoning goes soon, quite a Royal complaint currently thoughimage

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