RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00



  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    carterusm wrote (see)

    Ricky - I have been quite surprised how both you and Carl have been so tired after your races when, as you say, you have churned out some great 22 milers and felt ok the next day. I guess I will understand more when I eventually finish a marathon. 



    Carter - no doubt Spoons will be able to put this better than I ever could. LSR's give you valuable time on your feet and by taking them slow (particularly the 22mile one) get you out there for close to the time you hope to achieve in the marathon. This must help the mind as it is conditioned for the time you must run on race day. However on race day, you up the pace and you run much faster. While you inject some race pace miles into the LSR's close to race day, you do not do 20 miles at race pace in training. So as Ricky says the race does not start until mile 20 by which time you are knackered anyway. Another 6 miles on top of this is what leaves you really tired for days / weeks after Must be because you delve deep into the reserves to get to the finish line. It is why so many people struggle through those last 6 miles and get injured / walk just to get there. This is why all training plans have you do very little the first week after a marathon amd then have you doing recovery runs for the next 2/3 weeks.

    But despite all of this we all come back for more. image

  • Carl  - I always say a marathon is as close us blokes will get to experiencing the level of pain/discomfort as that of childbirth... In a similar fashion you soon forget the pain & effort and before you know it you are doing it again!

    * dons tin hat and awaits female perspective backlash*

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ricky - you are very brave indeed, clearly still suffering from heatstroke image

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Ricky - you are also forgetting how tough it can be when we get man flu........

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    carterusm wrote (see)

    Big_g - apologies for me being so rubbish but I thought you were racing in London, which race did you run ? And what is your home race ?


    I did North Dorset Village Marathon on Sunday.  It's a small (400-runners) marathon but it comes highly recommended by my club and a few people on here.  It is a great marathon but at a totally different scale to London, but extremely well run (regular 5K water stations, 2 water stations where bottles were given out, 2 sponge stations, 2 personal drink stations and 3 or 4 fuel stations).  I'd say it's a fair course (i.e., not too hilly, but nicely undulating) but the heat did me on Sunday.

    Torbay is my home course.  My PB was at Bideford which is cracking course and I know a lot of people who get their PB there.  I wouldn't say that Torbay is set up for a PB and as it is towards the end of June it can be hot.  There is a beer tent at the end though image

    I did do London in 2010 and have entered the ballot for 2014, but I wasn't running the race this year.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ricky W wrote (see)

    Big G - you will absolutely crack sub 4 based on your half & 10k times. My half  5 weeks ago was also 1:42 and my 10k two weeks ago was substantially slower than yours @ 46.20. So based on that you deffo will go sub 4!

    The Half 1:42 was a fair time on a fair course in March, but the 10K I'd say doesn't really count as the first 2K was down hill!  That was also in March and I think is probably more like a 45min time.  I just used it as a fast training session for this marathon.

    I was hoping to get out for a 4-mile run today but my legs feel worse than yesterday image  I'll do some stretching and see how I feel I think.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Carl D wrote (see)

    I have no idea how people do one marathon so quickly after another as it does take alot out of you and recovery is important.


    I know what you mean.  I don't know how those people do it.  I was barely walking on Monday morning, let alone running!  There is one renowned lady on here (Shades) who has done almost 300 marathons and she did another 2 this weekend.  I met her at North Dorset actually, which was great.  She did 10-in-10 a few years ago and I think there is an article on here about it.  (*Just goes off to have a look*).

    Here it is if anyone is interested.  She is unbelievable really and I'm pleased to have met her!


  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    andrew heley wrote (see)


    big_ G... Only one thing for it then... Tie her shoe laces together at the start and run away! Childishly simple and effective

    That is an idea!  Either that or get her drink the night before, whilst I stay on waterimage  In fairness, she has been training for a tri so has not been as focused on the running recently so I may be in with a chance.  I need to recover from the weekend first though!

  • i was going to suggest the drinking thing also... go onto shots of clear alcohol (vodka, bacardi etc and while she knocks them back you can have water instead (used this on a rugby tour to stich up one of our props (took him 5 doubles before he realised)

  • cater, ive got a few lined up with the aim of going for a best time in the final one (its prob the flattest)

    Wallingford 10k 26th May

    wargrave 10k 9th June

    toad hall 10k 23rd June

    Thame 10k 30th June

    all are lovely courses and very local to me

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi Carl, Yes I think my problem has always been I go full pelt at everything. Being a smaller guy I always have had to use my pace playing football ;0)

    When I started training seriously on the running my wife went out and bought me a Garmin for my birthday. That was my big hint......fgs slow down!

    It is all good fun though isn't it?  I love the training, I have even given up my footie whilst training for the marathon as I am so frightened of picking up an injury. This also after a couple of my running pals got on my back remonstrating that I couldn't do both...

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi Cater

    You sound like you are experiencing the same problems I had. I have suffered from ITB problems for the last 18-24 months and after I rid myself of the problem it would come back  a few months later even swapping knees.

    I had another lapse back in January when it hit my right knee and could not get to a couple of miles before the pain kicked in. After looking into things I think my problems came from a vicous heel strike and also possibly poor mechanics in the glutes and legs ( I was neglecting strenthening exercises). To get over the problem I did the following:

    1. Attended a Chi Running class. Why Chi running? basically I put up a search and that seemed to fit the bill and they had a session in the January in Edinburgh. This was great as the instructor took a video at the beginning which was reviewed at lunch time and displayed all your mistakes, this was repeated at the end of the day and you could immediately see the improvement. This is something you can do yourself.It is amazing how you think you are running fine then look back at a video and squirm ;0)

    best thing from this was upping my cadence and getting my feet underneath me moving me on to the mid/front foot and taking away the impact. Also my posture is a whole lot better now.

    2. I started regular strenthening exercises, trying to get to the gym twice a week to perform squats, deadlifts and lunges etc, but not too heavy.

    I also found this guys routines and now try and perform these Mon-Fri if I can.

    3. I have been receiving a massage every two weeks and my physio is also a runner and experienced ITB problems so she knows where to hit me so to speak, but it is very effective!

    4. Stretching, I have peformed plenty of stretching and purchased a Grid roller as well as a 66Fit spiky massage ball for the glutes (yes, ouch!). I use the roller after each run after stretching.

    5. Ice. Advice from my physio was to ice the knee area where I received the ITB pain. So I purchased an ice pack and velcro strap and ice the knees usually briefly after a run if I have time and usually on the evening whilst sitting down chilling say 15 mins a knee. I have found this helps keeps down the swelling in that area.

    So far this has helped, I still get some odd squeaks from my knees but now I am in my forties and have been punishing them playing football for 30 odd years I can't complain ;0) but the ITB has been at bay since January. I found after I built up my miles over a month or so I could get to about 8-9 miles on a long run and felt fine. Then I started my marathon training which is a gradual build up anyway and things seemed to go fine.

    I know everyone is different and have different mechanics, but if you or anyone can take anything away from this and it helps I would be really pleased as ITB is really frustrating...

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Hi Andrew - best of luck with the races, keep us informed of how you are getting on 

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Hi Nell

    I totally understand how you can become frustrated with this injury. I could run for a couple of miles and then get the knee pain and when I stopped running the pain went away. Start running again and the pain would return.

    I'm already doing a couple of the things you have suggested - have been seeing the physio every 2 weeks, foam rollering, stretching, strengthening exercises but I certainly feel as though I could, and should, do more. I've checked the video you sent and it looks like there are some additional exercises I could do to help, so cheers for that.

    So, I've just been for a run down by the canal and I'm now up to 3.6 painfree miles. I ran with a heel strike today as the calves were a bit tight after the last couple of weeks changing to mid foot. I too am trying to run more upright so my weight is better balanced as I I have been guilty of leaning forward previously (that is due to working at a desk for over 25 years). I think I will also look at my cadence and try and hit the 180 strides per minute and shorten my stride. But things are certainly improving.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Carter - I'm no expert and I'm not trying to add/cause confusion but I thought we should lean forward a bit, but from the ankles.  Or are you saying you're leaning over from the hips?

    I'm not sure if I should copy and paste whole paragrpahs here, but "The Art of Running Faster" has sections on this.  Basically, from that book I think you need to lean forward from the ankles so that the act of moving your feet quickly forward is the thing that stops you from falling over (i.e., if you didn't move your foot, you would fall over because you're leaning forward).  Your head should be held high, but looking forwards and slightly downwards (the book says 10-15 metres ahead of you).  This will also keep your centre of gravity forward, which helps you kind of fall into the next step.

    Like I say, I'm no expert though...I've just read a book that seems to make sense to me.

    I suffer from kind of crunching my shoulders/arms up, and bring my arms across my body.  This pic was at the end of the marathon and my legs were shot to pices by this point, but you can see my shoulders/arms are raised and my left arm is coming across my body.  This is wrong, and I am continually trying to change it.  When I'm tired though this is what I fall back into.


  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi Big G

    You are spot on leaning from the ankles and The Art of Running Faster is very good at describing things. I used that book and one of the Chi Running books to help me. Sometimes it seems there is a lot to remember to do correctly and at the end of a run it can sometimes be hard to hold it together when you are out on your feet...


    Hi Carter, You sound as though you are getting there, which is great! Really pleased for you. The calves will be working a bit harder at the moment due to the change in running style and with you easing the miles in this will no doubt work fine with the slow transition I would think eh? I find the roller on the calves helps as well as a bit of ice treatment.

  • Great news on the progress Carter!

  • Ricky, Big G -sincere congrats on Limerick and thanks for such detailed and interesting post race reports.

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Big_g/Nell - sorry, when I say I'm leaning forward I mean my shoulders are 'hunched' rather than me being more upright and that's what I've been working on. What I didn't know was that you should lean forwards from the ankles, never heard of that one before. As it happens, I have just taken delivery of The Art of Running Faster so as soon as I've finished my current book (Dead Man Running by Billy Isherwood) I will make a start on it. 

    Good advice though boys, keep it coming !

  • Well done everyone who completed the marathon. That's my 3rd year in a row completing the marathon and i have to say it was the toughest yet. 

    Around 16 mile mark I took a stitch/cramp on my right side, and I could NOT  get it to go away. I walked for a minute or so, then tried running again, after about 100 metres the pain returned, I really,really wanted to continue running, though I just COULDNT! So the final 10 miles was run/walk, it was so frustrating as I felt I could have continued to run at a good steady pace only for the stitch, which probably added around a half hour on to my time


  • BTW, it was the Belfast marathon and last year I done it in around 3:37.

  • Welcome Wayne - good man on Belfast.... hard work in the heat after all the cold weather training!. That was a great time last year - frustrating for you this year with the stitch problems but sometimes it just doesn't come together on the day. I last did it in 2006 and was considering it this year but opted for Limerick as an alternative/combine a weekend away with the family.
    Stick around here - good bunch on this thread and several of us intend on doing Dublin at end of October. Next race Larne HM on 8th June for me.

    Carter - all sounding very positive image

    Big G - how are the legs feeling? I'm improving but quads still a bit sore... reckon it'll be another couple of days before I'll be attempting a short recovery run. Great photo BTW!


  • Cheers Ricky, may look at that Larne half. Was just so annoying and puzzled as to why the stitch/cramp would not go away.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    What a busy day we have been having on here. image

    Welcome Wayne and sorry to hear about your issues during your marathon.

    Big G - great photo considering you were at the end of a very warm 26.2 miles.

    Carter - you seem to be recovering. My advice would be to work on what you are doing and see how it improves before adjusting too many other things. If you start adjusting everything and you do not improve you will not know what to fix. There is alot of good advice on here today and over time you can start adjusting things to see how they help build strength and resilience for the longer term. Looks to have helped both Nell and Big G so must be something in it.

    Ricky - wait a few days before doing anything. Most training plans suggest taking a week off and running your first recovery run a week after the marathon.

    If I have missed anybody I do apologise. I will catch up fully tomorrow. I will also update the race list and post a fresh list.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Carl - there are a lot of worse pics of me around from that race, from the official photographer at around that time.  That one was taken by my wife and I perked up and gave a little wave image

    Ricky - I actually did a 4-mile recovery run yesterday and I felt better for it.  I have been stretching a fair bit and trying to move around (difficult with an office job) which is helped, but there is still some general stiffness and I'm still very tired although I've been sleeping well.  I'm planning to attend the club session tonight but I expect I'll do a very easy session if I do go, and then another easy session on Friday and see how I am.  It was strange though as on Tuesday AM I felt worse than I did on Monday AM image

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭
    Carl D wrote (see)

    Carter - you seem to be recovering. My advice would be to work on what you are doing and see how it improves before adjusting too many other things. If you start adjusting everything and you do not improve you will not know what to fix. 


    Carl - yes, that makes sense. Cheers.

    Big_G - you do look remarkably fresh for that time of the marathon. Maybe you could do some practise on your wave though image

    Another 4.3 miles done for me this morning. Started off in a light drizzle and ended with it tipping down on me. It's great to be back running !

  • Sorry been mega busy and struggling to keep up image

    Big G - great result from you well done. You're 10km time shows you have natural speed so you need to focus on your endurance.

    Carter - glad to see you're getting out there again!

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Not trying to bring this into the gutter, but there was something on facebook that said "Go to page 45 of the nearest book you have to hand.  The first sentence will describe your love life".

    Well, I had The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook to hand and the first sentence of page 45 is:

    "People tend to quit too soon whether they're working on themselves or going to a professional".


    Can anyone better that?

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    "Another recommendation is to get a wobble board" - I'm sure Mrs C would be well pleased if I said that to her !!

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭



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