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RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00
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Ali - hope you're getting in more running this week.
Big_G - dont feel too disappointed about your race at the weekend. The completion of any marathon is a great achievement but not quite as great as a double gourmet burger meal
Nell - I believe you're up next on Sunday. Are you feeling in good shape, have you a race strategy yet ?
Carl/Ricky - hope you final few days of tapering is going well and you are managing to chill and get out for a couple of short runs.
I've been out on my new road bike a few times now, mainly to and from work. The weather conditions have been varied but the only time I'm not happy with the weather is when it's really windy, which seems to be quite regular at the moment. I've surprised myself with how I've settled into it so quickly after 4 years out of the saddle. While some of the hills have been quite steep/hard I have coped with them fairly well. I believe my running has helped my stamina for cycling too as I do seem to be able to keep going when the legs feel tired. Hopefully, both the cycling and running will compliment each other. That said, I had a hard 19 mile ride home last night that was mainly uphill, strong winds and heavy rain but I rode it as hard as I could. I ran in to work this morning and covered the 7 miles at 8:45mm but it felt really hard. I think I just need to balance my sessions and make sure I dont have 2 hard ones in consecutive days
Big G - fascinating story about your mate. At least he trained for it. Sub 3. Can only dream. Sub 3:30 sometime would be nice. I have to admit I have not really enjoyed the P&D plan. A little too prescriptive. I know it works for loads of people but I do think you have to follow it exactly and with a busy work and home life that is a challenge. Looking back my training for Paris seemed to suit me better and I felt much stronger.
I think you have hit another topic here too. I strongly believe that we can all get sub 4 once we have put the right type of trainng in and everything comes together on the day. With some extra effort and dedication it is probably possible that most people can get sub 3:45. But to get sub 3:30 and down to sub 3 you must either be a natural runner (which I am not) or dedicate your life to running. This is the difference between enjoying it and it becoming an obsession.
I can understand the being a busy person at work and running hard too. I do find when I am busy with work, running is a great de-stressing activity.
Hi Carter, I think I felt better going into the marathon early this year. I don't really know what to expect on this one. I was feeling pretty crap last week and with a good run on Sat morning I am feeling a bit better now. I think I will start off at 8:00-8:15 min/miles and see how the course treats me and adjust accordingly. There look like a couple of climbs in the run so I will have to be ready for them. I am not anticipating a PB and will just aim for enjoyment I think
Great report BigG and, as Carl says, a testimony to your mental toughness that you "got the job done" - congrats!!
.... best to email them and ask for a high/top floor room to get away from the noise. Failing that we could always just go clubbing on Sunday night 
Nell - I have also been feeling crap over the last few days - sore hips, tight hammys and a sore foot. Rested yesterday after a crappy run on Sunday. Went to running club tonight and feel a bit better for it. Great buzz at the club re: Dublin on Monday - 7 or 8 of us running.
Considering a massage tomorrow or Thursday at latest,,, never had one so not sure if its the right thing for me! Hope it doesn't leave me stiff as a board for Monday!
Carl - I have discovered our hotel has a popular nightclub which can go on to 3.30am
Very interesting reading everyone's chat! Reason I haven't been posting much is we are in our new flat but don't have internet yet so I can't get on the computer, posting this on my phone which is a bit too time consuming!
G I enjoyed your race report. How do you feel now? I remember after I did London I was v disappointed for a day or two, (had done 4:26, just died, when I had been aiming for my first sub 4) but then when people started to ask how is done and I told them, they all thought it was amazing that I'd done a marathon at all... And it sunk in, it really is an amazing achievement that most people only dream of, and then I felt really proud and try and remember that feeling now. Times are only half the achievement. Be proud you've now done multiple marathons- how many now for you? Three or four? Not that I'm implying you're disappointed, from what I can tell you did a great time for that course and should be well proud, just saying marathons are a whole other ball game and sometimes we should pat ourselves on the back more
Ricky - careful with that massage! Only if you think you won't hurt too much! I felt crap before Loch Ness but great on the day- I think my body was conserving energy for race day. Half psychological, isn't it.
have got in one decent run this week to date and v much enjoyed it! Mile warm up then 2.5 mlies faster, mile cool down. Not much but felt nice and still felt pretty fit after doing less last week. Also loving my new Kinvaras!
Ricky - clubbing on a Saturday night. Sounds the perfect weekend away break.
Went out for a 6-7 mile tempo style run tonight. It was very windy and very dark. Forgot how dark it gets this time of year. Since I came back in it has been pouring.
Have to admit was not feeling my best when I went out. Could not quite work out what it was so have put it down to it being the last week before a marathon !!!
Ran 2 miles warmup in 8:19 and 8:10 min / mile.
Then 3 miles at tempo pace. Now these seemed really hard eventhough my pacing was about right 7:25, 7:29 and 7:15 min/mile.
Then a mile at 7:58 min/mile and the final mile at 8:22.
Overall 7 miles at 7:48 min/mile. A confidence building run on one level. A really tough run on anotehr.
Funny how hard the week before a marathon feels.
Bring on the nightclub.
I agree with this, but to get sub-3 it was a different level. I count myself as a fairly obsessive runner (I'm always checking up on here, reading books, plan my free time around running, limit alcohol intake, watch what I eat, etc, which I expect is the same for most people on here) but the chap I know took it a step further. He wasn't by any means overweight but he lost a couple of stone, became tea-total and also became a veggie, as well as getting the training in. I think for him, the running was the main thing in his life and he put absolutely everything into it. I feel I put everything into it, but when I look at him it was another level entirely. I almost classed him as semi-elite really (I know he wasn't elite in terms of his marathon times) as he was kind of living the life of an elite, whilst holding down a pressured job and everything else that is a "normal" life.
I'm not sure where I stand with the effort Vs natural talent debate. Anecdotally, it seems to me that some people have a natural talent that others haven't got (I don't know how you can measure or compare this objectively). I honestly think that no matter what I did, I would never get sub-3 but he managed that in about 15-18 months from never running before. When I expressed this opinion out loud to other people, some think that anyone could get sub-3 if they "want it enough" or "try hard enough". I'm no expert, but I'm not totally convinced by that, but maybe I don't truly "want it" enough (don't forget that I haven't even done sub-4 yet!)?
Tricky one!
Having said the above (and I have thought about this a lot in the past), maybe the reasons why I run are different to people like my mate's. Ultimately, if I'm being totally honest, I run to keep the weight under control which means I can have a takeaway when I want and have a few beers every now and again, and not balloon up in weight. His goal wasn't merely to keep his weight under control....his sole goal was to get that sub-3.
So maybe there are different levels of obsession dependent on what your goal is? I don't know.
Has anyone here read the book "Running with the Pack: Thoughts From the Road on Meaning and Mortality" by Mark Rowlands? I really enjoyed it, but it may not be for everyone. From Amazon:
Woven throughout the book are profound meditations on mortailty, midlife and the meaning of life. This is a highly original and moving book that will make the philosophically inclined want to run, and those who love running become intoxicated by philosophical ideas.
He basically says that at its core, running is something that people do for no other reason....other than to just run. I.E., people go to work to earn money, in order to be able buy stuff. People buy medication to prolong life in some way or other. I.E., in modern life, people do something for the sake of something else. Conversely, at the root of it, if a runner can put themselves in a place where they are running just for the sake of running they've found "something". Many people (me included) run to lose weight, to compare their times with others, to get quicker over a certain distance, to relieve themselves of stress etc etc, but if a runner can get to a place where they "just run", that is (apparentaly, according to this book) where it's all happening as a runner.
Wow, this is deep for a Tuesday evening!
Hi Big_G, Good post and thoughts. I have seen that book but not got around to reading it. Must remedy that. Funny how we are talking about sub 3hrs, there is a piece on that in Running Fitness this month. They summed it up that not everyone is capable of a sub 3 and a sub 4 is a more realistic target for most people. A sub 3 takes a lot of dedication or you are naturally gifted I think.
I started running to keep in condition for football, as I was getting older the young guns were starting to get the better of me! I started with interval runs and then started to enjoy the running so took it further. I never run with music now although when I started I did listen to music, I found that it was dictating my runs so banished the ipod. Even when I get up and don't initially feel like running, as soon as I have taken a few steps I know I made the right decision...sorry, not meaning to go all hippy on you ;0)
I have found now that running is taking a higher priority than football now. That is something I thought wouldn't happen!
At the moment I will concentrate on sub 3:30 next year!
Hi Ricky, Yes I think the taper blues. I would not have a massage this week if you have never had one before Ricky, messages I keep reading are don't try anything new this week. The first massage I had when suffering ITB initially made me actually feel worse....
I'm feeling better now, went out for a 5 mile run this morning at 8 min/mile pace. The legs did feel a bit heavy but I could put that down to the intervals and band exercises from yesterday.
I hate to burst your bubble Carl/Ricky, but shouldn't Saturday night be your quality sleep night?
Big_G - I'm not convinced that there are many people out there who just run, certainly not on this website. Like you, I started running as a means to losing weight and that worked well although I would ideally still like to lose more to improve my running. Now though, I run mainly for the enjoyment of it but I still think that that is a reason for running, rather than "just running".
Ali - good to hear you are getting back into things. Do you have any thoughts or plans about what you want to do next ?
Carl - nice run and as you say a confident boosting one. Just one more run this week is it ? Dont forget to take your dancing shoes to Dublin.
Ricky - I would say no to the massage. I had one a while back, it was my first sports massage, and it left me in pain for about 3 days, stiff for a couple of more days and a further 2 days before I felt anywhere like normal again. To big a risk close to your race if you ask me.
Another trot in to work for me this morning, 7 miles @ 9:31 and felt much better than yesterdays. I'm not sure I like this running early in the morning when it's dark, raining and windy though.
Nell - nice run from you too. Take it nice and easy for the next couple of days
Hello all, I have internet again in the flat, yay.
G that book sounds really interesting. I must read some more running books.
Carter- in terms of next plans I am doing Fraserburgh Half Marathon on the 17th November which I'm really looking forward to. Have been following roughly a Runners World HM plan post-Loch Ness (though last week obviously didn't really get to follow it v to plan) and doing more intervals/speed work than I am used to, which I am enjoying. As I said before I am hoping to get a PB... we'll see. Longer term plan is Edinburgh marathon in May where I am going to conservatively aim for 3:55 with a secret quiet goal of 3:50...
Nell- you are going to focus on sub 3:30...did you not get pretty close in Edinburgh before? You can definitely do it if you go for Edinburgh next year! I will be there but obviously very far behind you
Tonight I did intervals on the treadmill at the gym, got really into it and was absolutely gasping for air by the end as well as having quite sore quads. Would have rather gone outside however it was late by the time I finished work and I knew if I went home to change I would never have gone out again, so going straight to the gym was a good option! Anyway the weather's been crap, hasn't it!
Hi carter, yes just ticking over now...you seem to be getting back into things, are you still maintaining the stretching and exercises to combat the ITB?
Hi Ali, I got 3:33 in Edinburgh this year. I am running Edinburgh next year whatever I do elsewhere. You never know Ali, you could be with me, new challenge ??
Not expecting sub 3;30 this weekend though....Looks like it could be quite windy and looks like SSW wind, which as I am heading North to Bamburgh is not ideal I don't think, but not bloomin surprising
N'mind.....
Nell- may have to pray for a miracle if I was to stick with you! Orrr...I could cycle it. One or the other.
Big G - very interesting indeed. So why do we run. Running for running's sake. Maybe. I used run as a kid. I was a member of a running club in Ballybofey in Donegal (Northwest of Ireland) on the banks of the river Finn. Loved it and used do loads of cross country running events. We moved to Cork when I was 10 years old and I again was a member of a running club and carried on the cross country running. I was also a bit of a sprinter. And I have never considered myself a natural runner. Whilst I am tall (5'11") my OH keeps telling me that I jave a long body and short legs.
But then nothing until a few years ago. Why did I stop and why did I start again and why marathon running ?
Like most people my age I reached that stage in my life where I was heavier than I wanted to be. I tried the gym and hated it. I started running but not like now. Remembered that I enjoyed it and after a year or two of running for a while and stopping for a few months, I commited to doing a marathon for charity.
My first marathon was not a brilliant affair. I has a calf injury a fe weeks out but had to run it as I had made loads of people hand over cash. 4:46. It was tough. But I had enjoyed the training. I enjoyed being out. And I could see how it helped me manage my weight a little better. That was 2011.
Ran the marathon again in 2012 and it was while training for this that I started to understand how to train better and smarter. The race itself was a bit of a disaster. I was going great up to mile 8/9 and then stepped on a drinks bottle that was discarded into my running path. I twisted my left hip and running became painful. But I finished in 4:25.
After this I was hooked. I was running at sub 4 pace and confident upto the incident with the bottle.
This reinforces my theory that with some decent training sub 4 is possible for most people. It does need everything to come together during training and on race day and ofton this does not happen.
I enjoy running outside but not in the gym. I enjoy the time to myself and it does act as a balance to the stress in life.
I think I was much more disciplined whilst training for Paris than I have been for Dublin. It was almost an obsession. I had a fixed training plan. Tempo run on Tuesday. MLR on Wednesday. Interval training on running track on Thursday. LSR on Saturday. The cold and dark winter did not bother me. I used come home and ofton go out the door at 9pm. Missed a week training with flu before my HM but nailed a 6min PB on a tough and hilly course.
Tweaked my hamstring a few days before the marathon on my last interval session and knew when standing on the starting line that there was a good chance it would caused me a problem. It did after 16miles when it tightened up and I somehow managed to hold on for sub 4.
So I have not run the perfect race yet and I am not expecting Dublin on Monday to be that as the training as been a bit hit and miss.
So why do I keep coming back for more. Why have I set myself a sub 3:25 target ?
To get there is going to need serious dedication and discipline. It will require me to be even more conscious of what I eat
Carl - the final point you make is the most important to me. My diet and alcohol consumption is terrible and the extra weight I'm carrying is slowing me down and causing me to put in a greater effort when I run. I'm fine with the training (subject to injury) and dont mind doing all the different sessions whatever the weather. Like you, I became obsessed training for the spring marathon and up until getting injured I was confident I could get under 4 hours for my first marathon. Now, for some reason, I've got the target of 3:30 in my head but I dont believe I could achieve that at my current weight. So, I think I've got a certain amount of natural talent and am prepared to put in the training but to hit my target it also has to be a lifestyle change for me. I guess it depends how much you want to achieve your target as to what you are prepared to do to get it. I'm not convinced I've got the willpower required to achieve that so may have to resign myself to the 4:00 target
Hi Ali, Whichever mode of transport you prefer ;0)
Guys, If you speak to my OH she just thinks we are all crazy. The family and I are all going down late Saturday afternoon and staying in Alnmouth. we have a busy weekend with activities and I heard my OH speaking to her mother on the phone the other night updating her on this weekends activities, finishing off the weekend with "then we will bring the crazy one home!"
To be honest she does admire our willpower, especially when we are all training through the ice and cold for a spring marathon. just thinks we are a little obsessed and slightly crazed.....on my account, I can't really argue with her there ;0)
Nice easy 3 miles this morning, and then back to work....the latter the crappy bit!
Carter - agree with you on the weight front. During the training for my Paris marathon I got down to about 7lbs lighter than I am now. I think this made a massive difference. My current weight is still a lot lighter than I have been for years but I think if I could change my diet somewhat and loose that 7lbs I could go a little faster.
And to do this will need much more dedication than I have put in so far and if Inwant sub 3:30 which I do, then I am going to have to do something about it.
Nell - agreed. My OH thinks I am unhinged. She has zero interest in my running (maybe I am being a tad harsh here) but does notice that it takes alot of my time !!
But really had to stop I would really miss it.
I am also lighter than I've been for years. I'm 37 and 6ft2 but in 2006 I ballooned up to the wrong side of 17st (reading that makes me cringe!), which is what prompted me to do my first half marathon in 2007 for which I lost 3 stone. 14st is just about inside the healthy BMI range for me.
I did my first marathon in 2010 at about 14st (it was horrible), but around August 2012 I decided to take running more seriously and the result is that I did last weekend's marathon at just under 12st8lb. I think I look fine (although I have had people telling me I'm too thin.....I'm definitely not too thin!!), but I know there is nearly always more that can be lost to help with running.
The funny thing is my jeans. At my heaviest, I was a (tight!) 36in waist and now I'm a 30in waist. I hold up my old jeans and they just look massive to me now!
For me, getting from 17st to 14st was easy as it was obvious what I needed to do to lose the weight. Getting from 14st to 13st I found really hard, and getting to 12st8 has been harder still
Wow Big_G! That is an amazing lot to lose.... hats off to you.
Me I've always been a little 5 foot 6 lightweight. Dodging just under ten and a half stone. I am not quite a 28 and not quite a 30 so usually go with the loose 30's as it is hard to find 29" jeans and trousers.
That is some going though Big_G!
I always think back to a pal who lost about 5llbs before a football season began and he said he was carrying around two and a half bags of sugar. When you put it in that context even though it is spread around the body, it seems a lot...let alone sixty odd lb!
I'm off to see Peter Gabriel in Glasgow tonight and a rest day tomorrow, so going to try and chill a bit. I will be driving as myself and a pal are meeting other folk there. I don't mind as I am off the booze until Sunday nght now!
Big G - amazing
Ali - good to hear that you got back into it this week. And you are right. Not the best weather at the moment even if it is still mild.
So after all this talk of why we run and loosing weight and whether we can get sub 3:30 or not ...... it was back to running for me tonight.
My last proper run before Dublin. I will do a few slow miles on saturday morning but that hardly counts as a run.
Decided to go interval training on the track. Something I really enjoyed when training for Paris but not really managed this time as it did not feature that much on my 12 week P&D plan.
Jogged the half mile or so to the track. It was busy. Loads of runners out there tonight. Also the rugby club were training in the middle of the track. Reminded me of last winter.
First mile on the track was a fast one and completed this in 7:27.
Second mile was a slower one and completed this in 8:22.
Then it was 4 x 800m intervals with 400m jog/walk recovery in between.
Times for these were : 3:13 (6:15min/mile); 3:10 (6:14min/mile); 3:10 (6:14min/mile) and 3:10 (6:12min/mile).
Cannot say these were easy but it felt good to be back on the track. I have to admit being slightly amazed at how even these splits are.
Then I completed a finnal mile cool down in 8:42.
Overall about 6 miles.
A good final session. If the marathon was on Sunday I probably would not have gone for the 4th but with an extra days recovery to Monday I figured it would be nice to see if I could manage another one.
Interval training is good. Really tough but you are on such a high afterwards. Well I was anyway even if I was also knackered.
It was interesting watching teh groups of other runners on the track. There was a bunch sprinting on the final straight. There were 2 separate groups (I am thinking 2 different clubs) doing different intervals. Mainly 200m sprints followed by 200m light jogs. I was thinking that I could manage that.
So the training is done. Nothing more I can do now except turn up and give it a blast.
Personally I think your genetics ultimately dictate your ability i.e. natural talent - I know there is absolutely no way I will ever run a sub 3 marathon no matter how dedicated the training is. Sub 3.30 yes, sub 3.15 possibly, sub 3 - not a hope in hell!
G that's some serious weight loss! Im 6ft and also touched 17st 18 mths ago down now to 13'2" but the waist size has only come down from 38 to 34. So a bit more to come off round the belly area - always last to go that bit!
Such was my niggling around my hips (actually limping a bit for first few strides when I got out of the car this morning) I bit the bullet & went for a sports massage this anoon - ouch. I must say I do feel better for it.
However he tells me that my glutes are very tight (hence the soreness around that area) and my calfs are also tight. Just spent 20mins stretching as prescribed by him! £20 for a full hour rub so not bad at that.
A bit concerned for Monday
Ricky - you will be fine. Your training has been amazing. You are probably just not running enough !! Once you get a few miles under your belt at the start you will be fine.it is only 26.2 miles afterall. You can give in to your body on Tuesday but not a day before.
Big_g - great weight loss there. I really should do something about mine and I fully intend to when I get back off my hols.
Boys - Nearly time for Dublin and that place in Scotland that I keep forgetting where Nell is running. I must admit that I have been getting rather jealous these last few months when it comes time for your races. Hopefully my day will come. I think training has gone fairly well and you all have plenty of miles in the bank so I'm confident of some decent times. The weather has cooled down so should be good for running but rain forecast for Scotland but Dublin cloudy with some sun.
Carl - I'm with you on the interval training. They are my favourite sessions, especially when doing them with the club. It's all friendly competition but I know those who are slightly faster than me who I try and hang on to, and likewise I know there are those slightly slower than me who are trying to hang on to or pass me. This atmposphere brings everyone on.
Good luck to all those racing this weekend. Ricky, you'll be fine. You're in cracking form and your training has been top notch. Good luck!
Carter - your time will come. I am super confident that when you get on the start line fo one of these mad marathons that we all do, you will end up with a PB
and before you say of course it will be as I have never run one before, it will be the PB you want i.e. sub 4 hours. 
Carl- good track workout! Do you have a track local to you? I wouldn't know where to find one/how to find out if it was free etc...
Ricky- glad your massage was OK. Don't worry for Monday. Worrying doesn't suit you
You're the one who does well and that's that! You're going to go and kick ass in Dublin and we're all sure of it.
Carter- your day will come, and you will smash sub 4. If a short girl with stumpy legs who has quite recently run her slowest HM ever and drinks way too much wine can do it, then so can you... end of story.
I did an easy 35 minutes tonight not worrying about distance just shaking out the legs, as believe it or not they are still sore from Wednesday's intervals sesh on the treadmill! My quads were killing me! But after an easy run they feel much better. Did a cool down on the bike and then a couple of weights before coming home.
Will be running tomorrow after work, then Sunday is my day off so I will be doing a nice long run- my longest since Loch Ness (still haven't got past 6 miles....) at 10 miles. Well that's the plan
Is it weird I'm really excited to do a long run again?