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Carl - thanks for the encouraging words. I remember feeling like this when marathon training and then all of a sudden things clicked in to place and it didn't feel so hard. Hopefully, the same thing will happen this time !
Have you definitely signed up for Chicago then ? (sorry if you have already told us you have, the last thing I recall is that you were still thinking about it). 10 miles at close to MP on heavy legs before you even start marathon training is a good indication that you are in good shape. Will you be going for 4 or 5 runs per week now that you have decided on a 12 week plan ?
Hi Carter, Those long hill runs sound pretty brutal, but I agree wioth Carl, you seem to be progressing pretty well.....you are welcome to them
Hi Carl, Yes I agree the 12 week plan should do for the autumn marathon. I did 12 weeks last year and it seemed to work. To be honest i couldn't face that extra 4 weeks! Sounds a good plan building up that base over the next 2 weeks and see if you can get a bit of S&C in over that period, Sean and Ali will agree it pays off
I gave myself a little test over the weekend to see how the ITB was and ran 4 miles Saturday, first mile 7:20, second and third at 7:00 & 7:06 and then last mile 7:45. Sunday I ran 7 miles at 7:20mm, with a last mile at 7:01 . This morning I ran 4 miles at 7:30-40mm. The aim was to see how the knee reacted over the 3 day period albeit on not so far a distance and intensity from when I was training earlier in the year. Glad to say that I had no problems from the knee, so the S&C seems to have paid off .Breaking up today and hoping to get in some good running on my hols, well that is the plan
Nell - good running from you over the weekend. Going on holiday already ?
So I am pretty convinced that some S&C work will benefit but would not know where to start. Any advice ?
Carter - I am definitely in for Chicago. There is no doubt that the purpose of all this running at the moment is to give me a great base from which to push on into a training programme. I am also consciously running a little faster in an effort to get comfortable running longer distances at close to MP. So when I do MP runs in the training plan they will be easier.
I will definitely be doing 4 and am going to try and get a 5th one in. Just need to decide how I do this.
Hi all
sorry been absent but a very busy few days.
Saturday I ran a very very very windy parkrun, it was brutal to be honest and I made a fairly slow time of 23:43. Running into the headwind at the beach was horrid!
Sunday I did the Peterhead 5k which was on a lovely sunny day, maybe a bit hot for running but still nice to be out. There were some route changes to the original plan as they didn't get permission to close some of the roads. So it ended up being less road, more a mix of bike trails and pavement through residential areas. And started with a purely uphill 1.5km which was exhausting! Followed by an undulating route, finishing with about 300m run round a proper running track to the finish which was fab for support and very inspiring of a good sprint finish.
My official time (23:40- no chip at start so a bit slow to get over the line) was again no great time for me. But I came 7th out of the 86th female and around 35th of about 150 overall so was really happy with that. It was definitely one I 'raced' even though I didn't pull out a great time. I stuck with the 4th, 5th and 6th women pretty closely till the last km when they pulled ahead a bit. We still all finished within 40 seconds of each other and had a great catch up at the end. Fab race.
Then I went and ran 10k with my slower running bud straight after. She did we ran 10k in 68 minutes so it was a pretty nice cool down run for me after the 5k.
Then yesterday was a well deserved rest
Well done everyone for some great running!
Carl- in the topic of S&C- there are loads of good books out there for runners. Including one my mum has which is called 'strength and conditioning for runners' I believe...
carter- very envious if your runs. 9 miles is still my longest run post marathon. But I think I'm going to up it this week!
Woops sorry for all the typos. Typing on my iPad does some weird correcting
Wow what a running weekend I had. Sorry for the really long post but I loved this race on Saturday. So I entered the 5000 'run like Mo' track event at my local track and their were 6 races based on the predicted time you put down. I put down 19:20 for mine, which 12 seconds faster then my current PB which I got on a course with a negative gradient. Tall order I thought.
Their where 8 of us in my heat and we lined up for 12.5 laps of the track. I've not ran a track race since I was 15, and I must say It was quite an exciting feeling waiting at the start for the gun. Definitely a different buzz to a normal road race. And we're off. The lad from 'Chapel A' running club goes off like the clappers, do I follow or do I stick to the race plan. I stick and let him do his thing. 4 laps pass and Chapel A pulls out a 20m lead over me, whilst i'm a further 20m - 30m ahead of the pack. Still not worried, im running a 6:15 min mile pace, and I know this is good for what I want.
6 laps in and I hear quite heavy breathing on my shoulder, someone has caught me. Its a young lass I recognise from another club. Shes only 15 or 16, but boy is she fast. She runs past me on 7 laps and begins to close Chapel A. I decide to go with her, and we work together to get Chapel A. 8 laps gone and we both overtake Chapel A. Hes gone off to quick and is out of this race now. Its a 2 horse race. Curly Sue (as I was calling her in my head) starts to pull away from me and eeks out a 10M gap. If I can maintain this until the final straight then i know ive got this as I have a very powerful weapon in my Arsenal. The Fitzy bombastic afterburner.
However 2 laps to go I think she senses I would have the better finish, so starts to really put her foot down. This pace is now at 6:11 min mile and is killing me. I've got to go with it though and 800m seems like the longest distance to me ever. She pulls out a 15m gap, and we start the final lap. My lungs are burning and my eyes start watering. I've got to keep this going. Then on the back straight, something happens. The runners high kicks in and im motoring again. I start reeling her in, and by the time we hit the final bend I turn on the afterburners and start flying. I pass Curly Sue at the 100m start line, and don't look back. I run the final .13 miles in 34 secs. Insane pace. I cross the finish in 19:16, get a huge PB and win my race. negative splits of 6.16, 6.14, 6.11. perfect race. I highly recommend doing something like this if you get a chance, it was running Jim, but not as we know it.
Then on Sunday I ran leg 2 of the Bradford Millennium way. All I can say is it was very scenic, but I was running with a far better runner then me, and he really pushed or should that be pulled me along, so I probably didnt get to enjoy the Bronte country scenary as much as I should have. Finished the 9.0 miles in 83 minutes and was covered in scratches, nettle stings and mud. Love it.
Brilliant race report Sean! Plus didn't that young girl do amazingly too? You're doing some fantastic running at the mo.
Ali sounds like you deserve rest after that weekend's running.
I did 11 miles on Sunday but after could barely walk due to agonising pain at the top of my leg. I saw the physio last week about my right knee (might need to get the fluid drained off it) and mentioned the top my left leg was niggling. She had a look and said my left hip was very tight so manipulated it and it felt fine. Sunday night it was so painful I couldn't sleep and yesterday I was limping and getting up and down was agonising. Then this morning it feels much much better. I'm obviously fretting about it as I'm onto week 3 of marathon training. Want to run but thinking I should maybe give it another day before trying.
Ali - no worries with you being a little quiet. It is that time of year.
Well done for both runs at the weekend. Considering the time off with your foot injury they are times to be proud of. And two races in two days is also great so well done again.
Must look out for that book. Not having really been into s&c ever need to make sure I am doing stuff that is tailored to being a runner.
Sean - why am I not surprised at you. What a great PB. What a great race. What a great report. I really enjoyed reading it through. So detailed. Such determination. Sounds to me like you are a seasoned pro at that kind of thing. Starting sensibly, using others to reel people in and then pressing the accelerator. Mo would be proud. And a great race from Curly Sue too. I think I would be dying at those paces. Well done from me. And a tidy run from you on Sunday too.
PS - Am no expert on these kind of things but important lesson from these forums is listen to the body. If it is telling you that you need another days rest then take it. A day or two missed here and there throughout a training plan for a marathon will have no impact whatsoever on the outcome. Some people have missed weeks and still manage to put in a decent performance on race day. You must not be a slave to the plan. It is a guide and nothing more. Important thing is to get to race day fit and healthy so getting over whatever is causing this is the most important thing.
So last night I was home a tad later than planned but still managed to get my 8 mile hill session in. For some reason my garmin did not charge and was as dead as a dodo. So I had to take the phone and use mapmyrun instead.
This meant that I was not keeping an eye so much on my pace.
The plan was 8 miles with repeat hills as last week and to see how close to 8min/mile I could get. This is a tough session but I am sure it will be massively beneficial come October.
So here is what mapmyrun shows :
I knew I was pushing it but was surprised to more or less hit 8 miles in an hour.
Splits as follows :
7:31 ; 7:30 ; 7:51 ; 7:42 ; 7:16 ; 7:35 ; 7:38 ; 7:32
with an average pace of 7:36 min/mile.
I am still on a bit of a high from this. I was both tired and elated after this run and my legs knew they had been in a workout but felt strong when I finished.
Tonight I went out again with an aim to get another 8 miles in but on a more gentle route. It was a tempo type run and I decided that I would keep the pace up and try and get 3 miles sub 7:30 pace.
Splits as follows :
8:20 ; 8:12 ; 7:35 ; 7:16 ; 7:12 ; 7:08 ; 7:46 ; 7:53
Average pace 7:42 min/mile.
Tonight although a flatter route was the tougher of the two runs. Clearly I was running on tired legs so had to work harder to run at a slightly slower speed overall but with 3 fast miles thrown in.
I have never run two back to back sessions like this where I pushed so hard.
I seem to be enjoying it too which is a little weird.
Tomorrow I am planning an interval session but may have to revise this if the legs cannot take any more punishment. It would however be nice to see if I could manage it.
So feeling good. Aiming for 30 - 35 miles this week which will be the most I have run in a week since London in mid April.
Ali – brutal runs can be advantageous further down the line as you are working harder both physically and mentally, even it is ‘only’ a parkrun. You will feel the benefits one day. Another impressive race at Peterhead too and close to coming out with some bling. Hope you are resting and recovering well.
Sean – cracking run big man. Did the thought of you being ‘chicked’ spur you on even more ??!! A very impressive pace and finishing time and a great report too. What’s next for you ?
PS – as Carl said, listen to your body and don’t overdo it, it’s still ages until Chester so nothing to worry about yet. My training plan for Manchester was alternate hard/easy weeks (to protect my knee) so you missing a few days won’t do you any harm.
Carl – that hill session is definitely tough yet you seem to be improving your time every time you run it. If you carry on progressing like this you will smash 3:30 at Chicago. Suarez: thoughts ?
I’m starting to feel better and stronger with each week now, I measure this with how well I recover rather than how well I actually run. A double day on Tuesday and a tempo run in the heat yesterday and I’m feeling pretty good today. I’ve also done a couple of bike rides recently which will hopefully help too. I’m currently thinking about not running Chester in marathon and running a local 50 miler instead. I’m really enjoying the off road running now, even though it’s really tough, and I fancy challenging myself at this distance sooner rather than later. There is the Ladybower 50 in September which is 3 circuits of the reservoirs and it’s only rolling hills rather than anything too steep. I will decide over the next few weeks though. In 5 weeks time it’s this brutal 50km with the 7 big hills. My current training pace is about 14 min miles, on average, so at the moment I’m looking at around 8 hours to finish the race. I’m planning a big run tomorrow, a big bike ride on Saturday morning and Sunday I’m going to run 7 miles to a place on the Tour de France route then run him afterwards. If I manage that that will be another 50 mile week so I’m starting to ramp up the mileage quite nicely. Next week, myself and Mrs C are off to Whitby/Scarborough for a few days camping. I’m tempted to run along the Cleveland Way but have decided against it, instead try and get some browny points in the bag for later in the year
Carl: If im the king of randomness then you are the prince of planning. I love your graphs and stats, its really pervy stuff for those inclined to numbers and suchlike. Great runs this week, although as a word of caution. I too did a 3x 10 min interval session on Tuesday on the back of my weekends exploits, and my legs feel shredded now. Just watch you don't push too hard, and follow the mantra of easy, hard, easy, hard etc when planning your sessions. Something I clearly don't do.
Carter: Awesome running buddy, I think you've become the threads off road specialist it would be fair to say. A 50m run seems like an eye watering prospect, but then again so did a marathon to us all a few years ago. Its all relative I guess. p.s. I was in Bridlington last weekend and did the Sewerby parkrun which I guess is a 30 min drive from Scarborough. If you can be bothered I would recommend it as it was certainly the most scenic one i've done yet. Just don't go off to fast like I did, and feel the shin splints burn for most of the race.
PS: As others have said, you know your body, and if it dosen't feel right just leave it out for now. Which is exactly what I intend to do, but probably wont as im silly. After this weekends running and the 3 x 10 intervals, my leg hamstring feels like its about to go so no speed work for me until it settles down. I have 3 races in July so cannot afford an injury now. In saying that I ran into work this morning in the fastest time ive ever done it. And that was supposed to be me taking it easy. Go figure.
The first is next week, and I dont think I stuck it down on the list, but im running the Hyde Park Summer Mile, which is exactly what it says on the tin. 1 mile of 2 laps around the park as hard as you can. I did it last year in 5:55 and am looking for 5:45 this year.
Hello all
Just popped in for a quick visit – good to see everyone keeping up the good work.
A shout out to Sean on that great 5k time. I was tired just reading it!
My only running has been managing to tick over on my commutercise, due to the usual life and work commitments – I really don’t know how I managed a 14 week training programme earlier in the year!
Plan was to attempt breaking 40 mins for 10k in July, but a combination of not following the required programme and suffering from a virus for the past 2 weeks had put paid to that.
Keep up the good work all!
Sean- loved reading that report. I reckon I'd run 5k lots faster on track- will look out for that kind of event but never seem to see anything like that up here?
PS- week 3 of marathon training is a FINE place to be facing a set back- better now than in 10 weeks time. Roll with it. Don't worry, listen to your body.
Carl- fantastic runs from you! Getting in lots of tough work, hills, and good speed! Well done on upping the mileage too.
Carter- omg your mileage is insane just now. Can I ask a question about your longer slower runs... do you find it drags, covering these runs so much slower than 'traditional' marathon training? Or can you kind of enjoy the scenery and the slower pace and forget about time?
Hi BK and nice to see you. Keep us up to date with any races you do.
I did a fun treadmill session tonight after work (finished late or would have gone outside). 54321 I call it. 5 minutes easy, 1 minute fast, 4 minutes easy, 1 minute fast... etc. Then when you get to 1 minute easy, 1 minute fast, you build it back up in the other direction and do 1 minute easy, 1 minute fast, 2 minutes easy, 1 minute fast... etc.
You can do it as long or short as you want so it can be a shorter or longer interval session but I did 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 then 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and another minute easy to total 40 minutes.
A quick way to pass the time on a treadmill if any of you ever end up stuck in the gym too
Had just put a long post together and was about to press send when the page refreshed and it is all gone.
So will come back to that again later and try and remember what I said.
Took my own advice yesterday and listened to my body.
Decided that a hard interval session was pushing the body too much and would risk and injury. I also have half an eye on the 10k at Regents Park on Sunday morning. If there are spaces left on the day I might just enter it.
So opted for a 6 miler at a steady pace.
It was warm. Very warm.
Again I was aiming for somewhere around 8 min/miles. Was using my phone again so knew that I was working a little harder than normal for this flattish route but was conscious that the legs and body were tired.
Brought it home in 48:43 for 6.39 miles. That is 7:37 min/mile. Oops.
22 miles so far this week.
Thanks for the support everyone. Have had some physio and told to rest for another week and hopefully after that I'll be good to go again.
Carl have you decided whether or not to do the 10k tomorrow?
PS - printed off the registration form earlier today but have since worked out that I cannot do it. I knew there was birthday party but the OH is acting taxi driver for a few girls so needs to leave early. Not enough time to get the 10k in and get back home so have scratched that idea.
I may well get up extra early and go for 10 -12 miles.
Carter - I have found myself really loving this session. It is really tough as I do it slightly later than I should and the constant climbing at pace takes it out of you. But I know it will bring massive benefits long term. Not sure I could go any quicker and I will probably drop the pace a little as I move into full training mode.
On Suarez. I guessed he would probably go to Spain this summer in any case and after his latest episode there is no way that Liverpool can keep him. Having single handedly knocked England out of the World Cup he was going to get loads of abuse from the press in any case. With this on top he would just bring too much bad publicity for the club. Not sure the owners would want that anymore. So I hope they hold out and get as much for him as possible and reinvest it wisely. Easier said than done in these mad days of over inflated transfer fees.
Great running from you by the way. Really pleased that you can see the benefits. A week ago you were not sure that you had made the transition and now look where you mind is. Ultra running is so different from road running and you use a load of different muscle groups to combat the terrain so it must be very hard to get a feel for how you are performing. With normal running you kind of know what your pace should be. I guess this is much harder to work out when you are off road and going up and down such steep hills (mountains). Keep it up.
Our Race Schedule
Jul 9 : Hyde Park Mile - Sean
Jul 13 : Eccup 10 mile - Sean
Jul 16 : Reigate 10k - Canter
Jul 20th : Elmbridge 10k - Canter ; Leeds 10k - Sean
Aug 9 : Tour of Bradwell 50km - Carter
Sep 6 : Highland Perthshire Half - Ali
Sep 7 : Vale of York Half - Sean
Sep 21 : Reigate Half - Canter ; Bristol Half - Stuart
Sep 28 : Barns Green Half - Canter ; Berlin Marathon - Ricky
Oct 5 : Chester Marathon - Carter, PS
Oct 12 : Chicago Marathon - Carl ; Royal Parks Half - Carl ; York Marathon - Nell
Sean - yes I do like my stats and stuff. And yes I know what you mean about shredding the legs. After 2 hard sessions this week I did think a third on the trot was not advisable.
If I am not mistaken you have PB'd at nearly every normal race distance this year so am expecting great things from you on Wednesday.
Canter - great to hear from you and sorry to hear that the running is not quite what you were hoping for. But at least you are ticking over. Try and hang around as it might help get you back into it. If life is busy making a commitment to get 2 -3 quality runs in during the week with no specific race in mind might be a good enough target.
Ali - that sounds like a great session and would certainly break up the monotony of the dreadmill.
A few more posts and we are over the 5000 mark. Not bad at all.
So could not quite get the timings right today for a shot at a 10k race. Shame as I fancied myself to do well.
getting up at silly o'clock for a 12 mile run did not appeal either. However one door closes and another opens.
With parties and gymnastics I found a window of opportunity in the middle of teh day.
Headed south to the city centre with the plan being to try and get to 6 miles before turning for home.
It was cool at the start but warmed up. Regents Street was closed to traffic for a summer festival so it was nice running down the road. The Mall was also closed as they get ready for the Tour to come through London tomorrow.
I did not treat it as a LSR as such.
After the first 2 miles thought I would try and come in sub 8:15 which meant I had to focus on running and not observing the hugh crowds in town.
I covered the last mile in 7:33 to bring the 12 miles home in 8:03 min/mile.
Average cadence was 178 with max at 182. Need to work on getting my average back up to 180.
Pleased with this run. It was not a walk in the park and had to work to keep it going. But finished on 34 miles for the week all at a good pace. So pleased with where the fitness level is getting to.
I need to start thinking about my 12 week plan. Have 2 weeks to sort it out. Will do some research to see what is recommended. In my mind it is about splitting it into either 3 or 4 chunks of 4 week / 3 weeks.
Afternoon all.
Things have been thrown into a bit of chaos here as Harvey had to go in for another operation on his other cruciate ligament. That's the poor lads fourth op and he isn't even 3 yet. I stayed up all night with him as he was in a bit of pain so Friday I was too tired to go on my long run. I had moved my runs around as we were due to go away camping in Whitby this week but we can't go there now as we need to look after Harvey.
So Saturday I got the bike out and feeling optimistic I headed for the peaks. It didn't take long before the legs were screaming at me but I managed 29 miles with about 2400ft of climbing. I took in part of the TDF route too. Yesterday, I ran to Col de Jenkin Road and watched them climb up the steepest hill in this years tour. I ran back home for a total of 13 miles.
Im off work this week so not sure what runs I will be able to get in.
Some good running from everyone else, keep it up everyone and manage those little niggles
Poor Harvey. That sounds horrible and very tough on the little man. Hope he's feeling better now.
Carter - really sorry to hear about Harvey. Sounds like he has had a rough old time. Hopefully everything works out well for him and you too.
Shame about the holiday but sounds to me that you are doing the right thing.
Well done on the bike ride and for doing part of the TDF route. Hopefully you will be able to get some runs in and keep ticking over but if not do not stress about it.
I had to come home early for the little fellas school play tonight. It was hilarious in parts particularly as some of the boys were dressed up as girls.
Managed to get a 3 mile recovery run in. Have not been much into these runs but research on the 12 week plans suggests that these are important. I enjoyed just doing 3 miles so might see if I can incorporate this into the running week.
Carter - hope Harvey is bearing up.
What happened in Brazil tonight ? I got home, went for a run and settled down just before half time to watch the footie and it is game well and truly over. Masterclass from the efficient and ruthless Germans again. Shocking from Brazil.
Damp and grey here in London tonight.
Usual Tuesday night 8 miles with my 4 big hills.
Every mile below 8 mins tonight with average 7:41 min/mile. A tad slower than last week (4 secs/mile).
Good workout.
Going to do an easy workout tomorrow night as do not want to shred the legs too early in training.
All quiet on here today.
Everyone gone on hols ?
Just watching the footy, what a load of rubbish.
No running for me this week yet
So tonight I embarked on a tempo type run. Not yet running to a plan meant I had no fixed idea of how far I would run. It was a case of I will see what the legs tell me.
Rough plan was 8 miles with 3 miles or so at 7:45 - 7:55 pace.
10 miles in total in the end with 5 at tempo pace.
First 2 miles at 8:30min/mile
Then 5 miles : 7:45 ; 7:31 ; 7:35 ; 7:18 and 7:14 mins
3 miles to make it back home at 8:25 m/m.
So 10 miles at 7:58 m /m in all.
Really enjoyed this one tonight. It cooled down alot while I ran so guess it is is going to rain hard tonight.
Must sort my plan out over the weekend. Have not yet found a 12 week format that I like.
Carter - agree footie last night was poor compared to night before. How is Harvey ?
Carl - good to see you still getting in another good session. I'm finding it hard at the moment to get motivated, I don't know if it's because the weather is ok and I prefer to sit in the garden with a beer or because I'm not following a structured plan. Harvey is back in the vets at the moment. He isn't eating or drinking, has a high temperature and is dehydrated. I'm sure they will get to the bottom of it soon enough, I just feel sorry for the poor little fella. Thanks for asking though. Re a 12 week plan - when we train for a marathon I think we should focus on the long, easy stuff with maybe one hard session per week. I would try and get in the 5 runs of 20+ in the first 9 weeks if possible. During the 3 week taper I would increase the speed sessions to 3 a week and obviously cut down my long run to 16, 12 then 10. I'm sure you will come up with the right plan to suit you.
I've got 4 weeks to go until the Long Tour of Bradwell. Training hasn't gone very well at all really, my longest 2 runs have been 15 and 18 miles. Admittedly, they had some serious climbs in them but the lack of running I'm doing at the moment is leaving me wondering if I should enter the race or not. I reckon I could complete a flattish 50k but not so sure about the 7000ft of climbing as well. I don't really want to enter and end up walking for most of it, I know there will be a lot of walking anyway but I would like to do some running. I've got a couple of different thoughts going around my head at the moment - 1) forget about running an ultra this year and get plenty more miles in my legs over the next few months and build up the amount of elevation slowly. Chosing this option would mean I can focus and going for a quick time at Chester in October. 2) Don't race in August and carry on training for the Ladybower 50 in September, this is a 50 miler but a lot flatter. 3) Run the long tour in August and see what happens and then go for either the Ladybower 50 or Chester marathon. Decisions decisions.....
Carter - decisions are always tough. This is always a tough time of year to keep up the running. I guess to make the decision you need to decide what your goal is for the remainder of the year. As you say you could focus on Chester and go for a PB. If this is your goal then I would forget about the ultra's as they will take too much out of you and you will not recover to race Chester. However if that is not your goal then maybe you would be better focusing on the Ladyblower 50 as this is more akin to rad racing than this seriously hilly stuff you have been training on lately. But I know you want to conquer the mountains so .....
Not much help.
Carl - your opinion is always helpful, it helps me think about things differently or in a way I hadn't thought about before. Yesterday, I set off in the peaks on an absolutely blisteringly hot morning. For once, I took some music with me to help me through the tough times. There were loads of people/tourists out too. As I was running I was thinking that this race is too tough for me at the moment, that I would wait until next year to try something so tough. Decision made and I carried on running, the views were spectacular yesterday. I had to make a couple of extra stops to take on more fluids. i was really struggling with my feet, the hot conditions and rocky terrain made my feet hurt and they were on fire and the last couple of miles turned into a shuffle. Anyway, after 5 hours of running I finished with 22 miles and 4000ft of ascent. It was obviously tough but I felt that if it wasn't for my feet hurting so much I could have run some more. So, from having decided I'm not running the race I'm now thinking I could do it if my feet hold up. No clearer making my final decision yet though !