Ding dong the Witch is dead

seren nos

Can anyone tell me who was actually responsible for giving Thatcher ther military funeral..........I know she left all the instructions stated what she wanted and how they had to do it all........

but if my mother put it in her will I'm sure they wouldn't oblidge and pay for it all....

so who actually made that decision on the countries behalf.,...it was announced and didn't seem to be debated or anything....

 

I personally thouight it was too much money for the queen mother but could accept it because she was the queen once.........

They didn't want to give one for Diana but the country seemed to want one as so they went ahead with one..

I really can't work out why we are having one for Thatcher........I havent seen any opinion polls on it but I would be suprised if more than 25% of the population thought we should spend that much on her funeral pissup.for a few people.....

RicF

Burial at sea.

Strangely Brown

Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

I think celebration is perfectly normal for any eagerly awaited or momentous occasion. Celebrating a death is not the usual thing, and I guess this type of spontaneous outburst of celebration (not only in the UK by the way) over a death is maybe unprecedented.
I suppose it says a lot about that person really, how much they are remembered as much as how hated they were.

Again, i'm struggling to agree with you.  All i've seen is a relatively small number of people act this way.  Because of the public nature of Thatcher's detractors and the vociferousness of those on the left who hated her, there seems to be a misguided belief that most people share the same opinion of her.  She won 3 elections and many polls since have had her remembered as the best/most competent PM in history.  Many millions of people are sad to see her passing and have hugely fond memories of how she changed this country for the better.

 

The real venom, the real spite and ire actually comes from a pretty small number of people yet they are hijacking what should be a time of remembrance.   The percentage of people who genuinely hate her, out of the whole population, is definitely being grossly exaggerated.  Most people either admired her or had few strong opinions about her

.

 

 

Strangely Brown

RicF wrote (see)

Strangely Brown wrote (see)

Celebration of death is normal?  Sorry, I really beg to differ.  I can think of very few instances where i've ever seen it.  Celebration of death is twisted and obscene and impossible to justify regardless of who you are talking about.

 

I'm with you on this view SB.

From my own perspective I'd regard such a celebration as a failure of character. But that is my perspective. Other's have a different view.

However if you take the stance that everyone's opinion is valid and that right and wrong is just a matter of personal taste then chaos ensues. Standards do exist, otherwise we'd still be hanging people in public.

Society does exist, despite what Thatcher declared. I guess that now again we have cause to test the limits of tolerance.

 

If i'm understanding you right, I think I agree.  I'd like to think that most decent people find celebrating death distasteful and vile.  Clearly some people don't enjoy this being pointed out but i'm confident i'm in a healthy majority on this front.  Celebrating death is just not a normal and acceptable way to carry on.

Of course, that's my sense of right and wrong but I think i'm in substantial and good company as well.

RicF

SB, I'd certainly find celebrating someones death distasteful as well as a complete waste of time. After all, the subject of the celebration is unaware of it, so the only people it could effect could be their relatives.

My gut reaction on hearing such news about someone I didn't go much on would be to think to myself, hmm!  Game over.

Booo

 

Strangely Brown wrote (see)

RicF wrote (see)

Strangely Brown wrote (see)

Celebration of death is normal?  Sorry, I really beg to differ.  I can think of very few instances where i've ever seen it.  Celebration of death is twisted and obscene and impossible to justify regardless of who you are talking about.

 

I'm with you on this view SB.

From my own perspective I'd regard such a celebration as a failure of character. But that is my perspective. Other's have a different view.

However if you take the stance that everyone's opinion is valid and that right and wrong is just a matter of personal taste then chaos ensues. Standards do exist, otherwise we'd still be hanging people in public.

Society does exist, despite what Thatcher declared. I guess that now again we have cause to test the limits of tolerance.

 

If i'm understanding you right, I think I agree.  I'd like to think that most decent people find celebrating death distasteful and vile.  Clearly some people don't enjoy this being pointed out but i'm confident i'm in a healthy majority on this front.  Celebrating death is just not a normal and acceptable way to carry on.

Of course, that's my sense of right and wrong but I think i'm in substantial and good company as well.

SB, you are slightly incorrect with your summation, as its not 'most decent people' it is in fact 'ALL decent people' find celebrating death distasteful and vile, as to not do so would preclude them from being categorised as decent..

 

Booo

Oh, and I know it is going a bit 'off topic' and back in the thread a bit, but someone did ask how people are supposed to look after themselves in their old age 'post Thatcher' ... well it seems one old stager has found a way of making sure his comfortable existence is maintained :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19806014

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17111486

Johnny Blaze

The funeral next week has the potential to be a colossal error of judgement on the part of our betters, who doubtless think everybody loved Maggie to distraction.

seren nos

bruce.I rememeber the first one regarding the flat when it came up last year......

I was disgusted by his attitude.....it showed him to be in the same line as Thatcher thinking he deserved something he was not entitled to.that he was more important than the members.....

 

micknphil-marathonlads.com

what a thread -

Screamapillar

Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

The BBC never get it right, double standards everywhere, they ban the likes of Gary Glitter but still play Michael Jackson and in truth they always did shy away from controversy with a ban being the default position.

The difference is that whatever anyone's personal views are on Michael Jackson, he was never actually convicted of anything. Gary Glitter was.

Peter Everitt

I'm grateful to MT for helping to invent soft ice cream. I do like a Mr Whippy - especially a 99...

Strangely Brown

Bruce C wrote (see)

SB, you are slightly incorrect with your summation, as its not 'most decent people' it is in fact 'ALL decent people' find celebrating death distasteful and vile, as to not do so would preclude them from being categorised as decent.

Good point.

Runnin man

I find the current fawning sycophants as distasteful as anything else right now. They despised and feared the woman when she was around and even now haven't the balls to say what they really thought, apart from Glendale Jackson

popsider

Johnny Blaze wrote (see)

The funeral next week has the potential to be a colossal error of judgement on the part of our betters, who doubtless think everybody loved Maggie to distraction.

I think it's a win win for them.   Passes off peacefully and it makes her look like a national icon respected by all - descends into a riot and most people will see it as the usual unwashed rent a mob and many a lack of respect for the dead.   

[Deleted User]

I too can't see the point of celebrating a death unless by that person dying harm is averted - e.g. a raving and ACTIVE military dictator with savage armies at his beck and call.  What do we gain by the death of an old lady years past having any real influence, who at the end of the day was a democratically elected leader of a civilised western country?  Or even for that matter a deposed dictator hiding in a drain, or a serial killer lying on his face in the rain surrounded by police...

I am a sucker for the beaten...

Runnin man

Maybe it also works for a democratically elected leader who turns into a raving dictator with (at the time) a savage army of Police officers at her beck and call to crush the people who were intent on opposing her.

RicF

Up to a point EKGO. The old biddy was clearly a product of her up bringing which subsequently affected millions of people one way or another.

However, I'm not aware of a situation where under her instructions, numbers of people simply 'disapeared'.

Runnin man

No probably not, leaders do what leaders do, under different sets of circumstances, her mindset was no different

Muttley

I know the Grauniad is a paper you wouldn't expect to like Thatcher's legacy but this is a balanced take on it. In my ever so 'umble opinion.

Runnin man

Seems there is nothing really to like, she is castigated by many for what she did and how she did it, with as much venom as she displayed at the time, she is revered by others, but what for? for being idealistic, for having a plan and the grim determination to stick to it.

No great policies, no great ideas carried out. Just a person determined to be divisive who succeeded in that aim.

Johnny Blaze

Ah, Ed Miliband and his "well calibrated response". What a gutless toerag he is.

Runnin man

Johnny Blaze wrote (see)

Ah, Ed Miliband and his "well calibrated response". What a gutless toerag he is.

Couldn't agree more, an opportunity to give a genuine comment and he bottles it

Muttley

Glenda Jackson did it for him!

Booo

EKGO wrote (see)

Maybe it also works for an almost democratically elected leader who turns into a raving dictator with (at the time) a savage army of 'miners' at his beck and call to crush the people who were intent on opposing him.

Sorry, just thought I'd correct it slightly !

 

Runnin man

Muttley wrote (see)

Glenda Jackson did it for him!

Yes she did, it was good that at least one of our MPs showed a little integrity in this