P&D Autumn Marathon Training Thread

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  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Nice 5ks, Men and Lisa image

    Happy belated birthday 15W image

    No running here ... thought I was going to be ok but the post marathon quad issue doesn't want to go away. I have come to the conclusion that it must be a minor tear image. Although I could run on it it never felt 100% ok and any sort of speedwork or trying to lenghten the stride became impossible. Bah humbug image  So much for a 10k PB next Sunday ...

  • Men - I must say I found the Road Running book rather useful.  A lot of the basic physiology is the same as in the advanced marathoning book, but there was some more info on how to determine what intervals to ru for example.  As someone who has only ever blindly followed a schedule as I didn't know what I was doing, this was illuminating and very useful should I ever decided to create a totally bespoke plan.

    Chick - that's not so good.

    I currently had a sacro-iliac joint issue apparently so I've been on reduced running for the last week.  However, it is feeling much better and should resolve with appropriate strengthening.  I knew before I got to the physio that he would say I needed to improve my glute strength so bridges and clams twice a day.image however at least I can still run on it.

  • I have followed most of the original VLM tbread and will continue to lurk on here. I found the discussions really interesting and helpful. My target is York in October but I will not be following P&D just yet. My aiim is to get marathon fit and then follow the 55 mile plan for a 2014 spring marathon

    John

  • Hi all. Have been reading p&d and will be following 18/55 prog.  Manchester (my hometown)  was my 1st marathon. Managed 3:42:04. Am targeting 3:30 (or sub would be great) at Chester. Looking forward to getting some good tips from you more experienced runners.

  • Hi everyone.  Purchased the book and am thinking of doing 18/55 for Chester. I haven't been doing much since VLM because of illness and having to study for exams. Do you think it is possible for me to jump into the 55 or am I asking for an injury to happen? 

    C

  • Probably best to build up to it. It shouldn't take too long if you've been marathon training over the winter to a reasonable mileage.

  • Another 4.30am start! image Changed the 10M GA run on the plan into a 11M MLR - what is the difference really...?! I think P&D should just reclassify MLR's as any run from 9M up to 15M. Struggled a little getting out of bed but I'm convinced that it is the mid week longer runs that are the stand out feature of the P&D plans so if that's what it takes.......!

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    ACP - that is ridiculously early....hope you're going to bed early enough or you are going to wear yourself out before you've even started. I wouldn't get too hung up about paces for GA's and MLR's, especially this early on.

    Feel like crap today. Running 10mi at lunchtime...hope that will make me feel a bit better!

    In other news I spilt coffee all over my work laptop yesterday. Whoops.

     

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Hello fids and Chaney. Chaney, you should be ok...start building up the mileage now though...nice and easy.

  • 15W - I'm being very strict with myself about going to bed at a decent time but I'm also much more of an 'early morning' person than a 'late night' one anyway. Plus if I didn't do the runs in the morning it would mean eating into time with the kids and OH so at least this way I keep them happy and I don't have to feel guilty! image

    There's nothing like a 10M run when you're feeling crap to make you feel better! image

    At least it was the work laptop!

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Ok - just make sure you get enough sleep as the mileage starts building up...I remember last summer I did a lot of my running before work (not silly time like you though) and I was really tired every evening and felt ready for bed by 9.

  • Hey everyone

    Okay thoughts please........I have definitely decided to go for the 55/18 plan (but perhaps adding a couple of miles onto some of the runs, rather than going for the 70 plan and not being able to cope).  Anyway, was going to start the plan on the 3rd JUne, two weeks early, making it a 20 week plan.  THis was to make sure I fit in ALL of the long runs, and allow for any holidays, injuries etc.  But does anyone think that a 20 week plan is just a bit too long?  NOt sure I can keep fully focused and dedicated for 20 weeks.......

    Also struggling a bit with planning paces.  I thought that the long run should be done at the slowest pace, but I don't think this is the case for P&D?

    Lisa - I seem to recall that we are aiming for a similar time.  Do you mind if I ask you what paces you are planning your runs at if you've worked it out yet?

    acp - I was running at 5:30am this morning and I thought that was early enough! Only 3 miles though, can't manage anything more than that so early in the day.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Tiny Runner - I am the sort of person who would actually rather have a structured training programme all the time, so 20 weeks doesn't seem too long to me... but on the other hand, I did follow the 18-week schedule for VLM and ended up having to skip a week due to injury (week -11, I think), and it was fine and I could pick it up again once I'd recovered. I just shifted some of the long runs around to include the one I'd missed and because I was doing a half marathon. So I wouldn't worry about starting two weeks early if you think you'd rather not.

    P&D suggest doing the long run at MP+20% and speeding up to MP+10%, and I did more or less do that (with an extra couple of MP miles right at the end, because I'm enthusiastic) and I thought it worked well and wasn't too knackering to recover from. The slowest runs were the recovery ones.

  • Tiny Runner - my plan is 23 weeks long!  image But I have mixed things up a bit and haven't got too hung up about sticking absolutely to the plan in these first few weeks that I'm doing now. My concern is not so much whether I can remain focussed but more about not getting injured and not wearing myself out! There are a few plans out there which are 22 weeks anyway so I suppose it just depends on what kind of person you are as to whether you can stick at it.

    I shall be and have been running most of my long runs according to HR which I've already noticed has meant I've been running faster than the paces I'd set myself! I'm guessing that is a good thing and shows that my aerobic base is improving  - or something like that!! image

  • THanks for your thoughts.  I think I'll start as planned 20 weeks out and see how I get on. 

    RIght, dumb question time......how do I calculate my MP+10% and MP+20%? I'm sure the answer is obvious and I'm being totally thick......My planned marathon pace is approximately 8:45.  Please can someone tell me how I'd add 10 and 20% to it?  10% of 8minutes 45 is 84 seconds, or 1 minute 24....making MP+10% 10:09....but that seems too slow?! Brain fog!

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Tiny - that sounds about right. My MP is 8:30 and I have to run my long runs between 9:21 and 10:12

  • Ryan SnellRyan Snell ✭✭✭

    8:45 = 525 secs 

    525 + 52.5 = 577.5 = 9:37min/mile

    So you should start long runs at 10:30min/mile (9:37 + 52.5) and end at 9:37 image

  • Thanks boys! I'm usually a person of reasonable intelligence, honest!   I was a bit worried about how fast the long runs should be but those paces seem okay.  I guess the tough bit comes when starting to inject some marathon pace miles in the long run.  Won't worry about that just yet though, one step at a time image

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    All good advice Tiny. Start slow, get faster, sprint finish! I'm on week5 of mesocycle 5 of my last marathon, then I have one week gap before the next schedule starts.

  • Ryan SnellRyan Snell ✭✭✭

    The long runs with big chunks at MP are tough but very rewarding mentally. If you can nail them, with tired legs (which you WILL have image) then it gives you a big confidence boost!

  • Back to some much missed speedwork last night with a few clubmates, 12x400 with 75 seconds recovey, 400m ran in 75-79 seconds.  I'm targeting a 10K in June, so loosely following a Hal Higdon 4 week schedule for this race.  Sessions felt quite tough as not done these for a while and the 2 I was with have been doing them week in week out.  

  • Me too Craig - Probably see you on the 16th then. Whre can I find the Hal Higdon 4 week schedule? I have a 19 day one which I am looking at. http://www.time-to-run.com/training/10k/sub35.htm

  • I should correct that Menn, It is Hal Higon but I'm picking up on the final 4 weeks of the advanced 10k, but been looking at that Runners World Smart Coach as you can pull a 4 week schedule off that, based on previous race times and how hard you want to train. Just had a look at your link also, there are so many out there.  You targeting a sub 35??, My PB at the 10K is 36:31, I would like to break 36.

  • sub 35 is the goal but wont be done at the first attempt. My current PB is soft at 37.35 on a quite hilly course so am hoping to correct this with a low 36 next time out and build on that. Had a go at a 3 x mile reps off 2 min recoveries and managed a 5.43, 5.37 and 5.33 but was at my limit at the end of the last one. 6 miles at 5.37 is a tough ask image but will aim for low 5.50s or thereabouts in June.

  • Evening all.  Hope everyone is well, will read back properly in a mo.  Been doing majority of my runs on hilly trails, switched pace/time off Garmin and just enjoying running again.  Did first tempo before since Manchester, had no idea of pace and just did 8 miles with first few miles easy and then finished with 20 mins at tempo pace (doing minutes rather than miles at the mo, don't want to be hammering out 6-7 mile tempos, hard enough in the P&D, never mind doing them whilst recovering).  My pace when I plugged it into Garmin was a bit faster than it usually would be for the same effort (7:25m/m - whereas tempo used to be around 7:35m/m) so looks like I am finally recovered! 

    Men, well done on Christleton, I was a DNF, I had to pull out mile 2, thigh pulled when that guy fell over at the start as I fell over the scrum, it wasn't worth carrying on as was in pain and would have ended up injured. 

  • acp I really don't know how you go out running at 0430hrs, that still the middle of the night image , seriously though well done for being so determined to get out there and train.

    Tiny Runner - I am so glad you asked that question about pace timings as I have been really struggling trying to work it out - complete mental block, the more I looked at it the more confused I became image

    Men and Craig (and probably most on this thread) I am in awe of your 10k pb times. I am running London Bupa 10k on Monday and would be happy with around 48 mins!

  • Lisa - glad it wasn't just me then image

    Good luck with the 10k on Monday.  I also can't get my head around how anyone manages to do a 10k in anything beginning with a 3! I have a hilly 10k tomorrow night. Definitely not a PB course but I'd be really chuffed to get around the 48 minute mark too.  I did this same race a year ago and was over the moon to come in at 53 minutes.  It'd be great to knock about 5 minutes off that time image

  • Ryan SnellRyan Snell ✭✭✭

    I'm also in the BUPA 10k on Monday. PB is 36:03 so anything near that would be good. Did a 3000m on the track in 10:08 the other day; after 18 months of near continual marathon training and recovery it was a bit of a shock!

    I agree with the comments about 0430 running - very impressive dedication image

  • Ryan SnellRyan Snell ✭✭✭

    Menn - those are very impressive mile splits. It's amazing what you can find in a race so i don't reckon sub 35 is out of reach. You will definitely destroy that 10k PB without a doubt

  • Lisa/ Tiny - don't worry not everyone is that fast. I did 10k last night and smashed by time by 2:02, finishing in 47:28. Really, really pleased with that. image

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