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HADD Training Method
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Brian I wish you all the best in your job hunt.
12 stone for the last two weeks. Will get rid of that ASAP.
Dara, I have a marathon on the 31st of May, the Mont st Michel in Normandy.
I will start Hadding right up to that date, training starts this Monday 12th, so maybe we can compare notes and any training advice.
Thanks guys.
DrDan, lol. You are a little taller than me....
Dara, welcome! and good luck with the training. I would split it into 3x6 week blocks (plus 2 weeks taper). Chunks are then a bit more bite-sized. Easier to plan out that way too.
Moks, not heard of that one. What was the attraction there?
Hi Moks,
Sounds good - happy to share my progress, etc.
Brian61, thanks I probably will go with a 2 week taper but I'll see how I'm doing at the time. When you say 3x6 week blocks what is the difference between each (if any)? It's likely there will be some informal divide roughly every 6 weeks as I will be doing the LT tests each 6 weeks. So if I'm seeing improvements then I will be inching up my LT HR training. Is that what you mean?
Cheers
Dara, it depends on the sort of experience background you have to how you start, and how to progress things. If you are an experienced endurance athlete, returning to Hadd type principles, then I would suggest the progression would be very quickly eg.
Block 1 - all easy stuff (
Oh dear! I for got about the dreaded "less than" truncating text:
Try again...
Here's my week so far for anyone interested:
Monday 60 mins @ 146 avg. HR (9:26 pace - windy!) - 6.38 miles
Tuesday 75 mins @ 159 avg. HR (7:49 pace) - 9.59 miles
Wednesday - N/A
Thursday - 60 mins @ 152 avg. HR (8:37 pace) - 7 miles + Legs Gym session
Plan for the rest of the week:
Today 75 mins @ 160 avg. HR
Saturday 45 mins @ 150 avg. HR + Upper body GYM session
Sunday 90 mins @ 155 avg. HR
Next week will ramp up in terms of duration and then again the following week. Then it's head down and clock the miles
Dara, it depends on the sort of experience background you have to how you start, and how to progress things. If you are an experienced endurance athlete, returning to Hadd type principles, then I would suggest the progression would be very quick eg.
Block 1 - all easy stuff ( less than 75%), building time-on-feet
Block 2 - add in some sub-lt (~80% nd build to 70mins
Block 3 - marathon specific (83% / MP runs) and some 20milers+
For less experienced runners or if you have turned to Hadd because of a particularly weak translation of race times, then the start would be the same but progression would only take place when ready.
Thanks Brian, I think I'm likely to be between the two to be honest. I have experience but the relationship between my times is not what I'd like as the distance increases.
My plan will roughly work out as you suggest I think, although perhaps not as cleanly. I will base progression on when I'm ready for sure as I want to get the most out of each lower HR before finally reaching goal marathon HR.
This is a little bit of an experiment for me as it's my first time using HADD. I'd like to squeeze the toothpaste to use the analogy as much as possible and if that means not being in prime position to achieve my goal for Edinburgh then so be it.
For reference my PB is 03:24:57 and I want to get sub-3 this year.
Dara, I think the secret is don't fold the tube till you have all the toothpaste moving upward ie. don't progress till the pace at each intensity plateaus.
3:24 to sub-3 is a HUGE jump. But eh! I like your style.
Keep us updated please.
Exactly and I'll stick to that Brian. I'm committed to doing this right. I felt I needed an ambitious goal to push me forward but I'd rather get the absolute most out of the HADD approach even if that ends up pushing my goal back. Good to have a strong aim though eh!
Yep will definitely keep posting updates. Thanks for your advice!
Welcome Dara
... and good luck on shaving 25 minutes off your mara time.
Another two easy runs since the last check-in - 4.4 and 5.5 miles. Away this weekend to drop eldest at Uni and visit some friends en-route, so not sure how to squeeze in Sunday's long run.
14.3 miles this morning. 116 bpm ave at 73 % MHR = 9.12 mm ave.
Its a start, no more fell races to side track me, ran one yesterday afternoon felt it a bit today. Last two miles became a bit of a slog, but a few more LSR and that will stop.,
Hope you are all well.
Nice running Moks.
I squeezed in 10 miles on Sunday morning running laps of a park in Redditch - felt good and would have liked to gone further but I was staying with friends and time was against me.
And another 5.4 miles today at 8:40/m. Basic fitness is back now after 6 weeks of gradual build-up, mostly easy running, 4 x parkruns and a cross-country race. Need to get the 45-50 mpw routine going now with a couple of mid-week sessions.
I don't mind talking to myself.
..... So, 7 miles today, with 2.5 mi at 7:55/m (MP/subLT pace) and another 2 miles at 7:18/m (LT/tempo pace). Felt pretty good too!
DD, nice running. Seems you are pulling at the leash a bit so you are ready to have at it again. Nice pacing.
Roy, hear you about the slightly longer runs now. 13-15 can be plenty...not ready to shift over to longer stuff at the moment. Nice to not run farther than that lately. But weeks have gotten a little stale (13M w/10subLT Tues/Fri; easy running Wed/Thurs; LR (really a MLR 12-14 Sun).
Brian, good luck on the job search and the healing. Think Wolverine!
I'm coming off a cutback week and spent the whole week trying to consciously increase my cadence at 70%. Was able to get up near 86/87 steps/foot/minute, which is not bad as the easy stuff is usually 82/83ish. But after yesterday's run my big toe metatarsal on top of foot was sore. I was running on uneven snow that day so maybe that's part of it or perhaps the quicker tempo on too many LRs did it (did a 4 day stretch of 10, 8, 14, 10). The last 10 was only there instead of complete rest because today it was -8 F.
Welcome Dara!
A very belated Happy New Year folks
. Cardiologist gave me the all clear today. I may never run a PB again as I have to listen to my body and be careful if things feel odd (diagnosis is a leaky heart valve) but he said it's not severe enough to be operated on and it should definitely not stop me running. Nice doc 
. I like you thinking big though 
-- my racing weight is 55.2 max. I like it to be closer to 54.8 though.
I'm officially back in the running game
Welcome, Dara. I have a 3:24 marathon PB as well but I'm way too slow and way too old for a sub 3
Dr. D.: nice pace - are you P&Ding again?
VT: brrrrrrr - sounds cold over there!!
Brian: sorry to hear about the redundancy. Been there too ... fingers crossed for the job hunt. I'm in dire need to loose weight too .... topped the scales at 59.8kg on Sunday
I never struggled with my weight before but those heart problems meant I ran very little whilst eating like I was still doing 60 mile weeks. No wonder I'm so fat
Proper base building starts now.
7.5 miles in the wind and rain but the HRM was playing up
VT - nice training. Take care of that toe. Perhaps it's frostbite!
Chick - great to hear you're back on the horse. No P&D for me ... not considering a marathon until 2016 at least. I'm going to go back to the training approach I evolved into when hanging around the "Middle Ground" thread in 2010/11 ... I need some fast 5K/10K times in my life.
I'm around 85 Kg at the moment and don't even have an excuse
... I will need to be back under 80 if I am to see anything fast again. Currently beer-less and cake-less
. I did get may long hair cut off last week but don't think the reduced weight and improved aerodynamics are making much difference.
Chick! Nice to hear from you and glad that you were cleared to get out there again. Also happy result not to need any procedures. I hear you on the 60 mph appetite whether running the miles or not. Same thing always happens to me. I've got a few holiday pounds for sure.
Last year we started a bit of a weight track thing. Wondering if we need to restart? It did get me on the scale once a week (which I've avoided lately).
Brian, Mont st Michel looks a good course, mostly flat with a bit of a hill at the start, am hoping that with a tail wind along the coast of Normandy and some good mileage I might get myself a PB, Fingers Xed. Love running in France I will make a bit of a holiday of it after the race. Might go to Lyon later in the year ( August ) and watch The World Masters Championship,
To hot for me that time of year, but the16th August there is the half and full marathon, a few friends are running so will support them if I do go.
Chick, Sorry to hear about your health issues, glad you can still run tho
DD, Big shock finding out that I was 12 stone over xmas. I have lost a few ponds already
but a few more need to come off.
1st metatarsal nearly painless before subLT session but not happy after. Damn it.
I lost 800 grammes since Sunday
. The downside is that I have zero energy for my runs 
. I try to have only one portion of carbs per day and that's my porridge for brekkie. Lunch and dinner is as carb-less as I can manage. For someone that's used to stuff her face with pasta it's hard going to do a run on empty first thing. But hey, I managed 9 miles @ 71% (10mm 
). Very windy though. Is that enough excuses 
??
I prefer short hair as well. In men that is. Although mine is pretty short coz I can't be arsed to spend hours blow-drying it.
VT: ouch
I had long hair for 22+ years. All gone now. My rockin' guitar solos will never be the same again.
Take care of that toe VT.
Nice work on the 800g Chick!
10 mi T 8:48/mi and 72% maxHR today ... felt pretty good again. You know it's windy when there's surf on the Leeds-Liverpool canal.
Hey everyone,
Thanks for the welcomes!
Here are all my runs since starting HADD (last Monday). All going well so far but interesting VTrunner I've also had some discomfort around the ball of my foot and where my 1st metatarsal joins my big toe. I've been icing it after runs and it isn't getting any worse so hoping it will pass.
Looks like a good start, Dara!
Good to hear you're relatively well, chick.
Not much running here I'm afraid. Only managed 25 miles in the last 8 weeks after getting hit with Costochondritis. Finally managed to shake it off now but ended up having to rest completely to sort it.
The Maffetone thing says I should be "running" at a 148 HR, I thought that sounded too close to walking pace, so tried wearing the monitor for a walk in hilly trails. Results:
Avg HR - 123
Max HR - 151 (!)
Think it might be time to just run at an easy pace and consider HR training later.
6.4 miles "structured fartlek" session...
warm-up - 1.5 mi at 8:23/m
Then 600m circuits going from something like MP to 5KP...
7:44/m 134 bpm
7:17/m 140
7:01/m 149
6:51/m 152
7:47/m 145 bpm
7:31/m 145
7:09/m 149
6:50/m 153
7:57/m 147 bpm
7:22/m 147
7:17/m 151
7:07/m 154
cool down - 600m at 8:29/m
Thanks Dan, appreciate that, sounds about right. I recall Ecce suggesting something along those lines too.
zicksi - the "5K race pace + 3 min" advice comes from Hadd (http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=134124&page=1).
Sunday's half marathon race as cancelled (icy roads) which was good as I'd decided not to run it anyway as it involved a 150+ mile round trip which didn't seem worthwhile given my current fitness ... I did 11.3 mi easy instead to bring up 45 miels for the week.
Yesterday's 3.3 mi recovery was a slog (it was supposed to be 5.4 mi). I was full of cold but all in the nose/eyes so I'm not stopping in just yet ... then 9.2 miles today with 6 "quality" done progressively in the subLT/LT zone, although not a classic Hadd session ... 3 mi at 7:39/m (80%), 2 mi at 7:24/m (85%) and 1 mi at 7:19/m (87%).
Nice one, Dr. D.
but it's all at the back of my throat and the old asthma is playing up. Still slogged out 11 slow miles at 69% today.
I'm full of cold too
Zicksi: wot Dr. D said re. 5k pace + 3mins. Maybe you got your HR max. calculated wrong? I had to google Costochondritis - ouch, that sounds really painful
Sorry to hear the bug is passing through you guys.
Nice rebooting DD!
After such a long stretch without a major injury, I'm on the bench
I've got a pretty good case of extensor tendonitis on the tendon running off my big toe on the left foot. Fizz originally popped a bone back in place and thought we had it liked, but not to be. Last run was Sunday and I should have skipped it but anyway, no runs for a while now. Thinking best case maybe out 2 weeks but I suspect it may be longer. Tried Elliptical last night but it aggravated it a bit. Stinks, but at least I'm not 5 wks out from a marathon. Will just have deal and heal.
I think my week of higher cadence running did it. Should have considered that 50 miles of higher than normal cadence could be risky. Another lesson.