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P&D Spring Marathon Training Thread
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Ah, ok, so if you feel like you're going to die after 2 miles you're probably doing it right then? I thought I was just being lazy and unfit.
that's putting my mind at rest, lit. Because I'm shitting bricks each time this one is on the schedule
I managed it last year but it HURT! I ran a half marathon 2 weeks later at the exact same pace and it was not an all out effort. Whereas the LT training run was lung busting. These paces become a lot more manageable in a race environment!
this time of year, you will look like a fitness god smashing out an LT run on the treadmill and it will do the resolutioners some good to see what a proper workout looks like!
Chicka - I did do the 6 mile LT session last year, and although I did manage to run at an average of 6:45, which was the same average as my half marathon PB around that time, the pace wasn't controlled at ALL, with wildly different mile splits (I do remember it being quite windy on my route, but still...). And according to the description in the book I think someone at my level was supposed to be running at 15k race pace anyway, which there's no way I could have done even for 6 miles, let alone 7.
HMP is certainly a tough training pace!
Yes, I might not do a few of the LT runs cause they're a bit hard...and I don't really like the VO2 sessions either, or the mp runs so might not bother with them...and actually I find any run over about 13mi kind've tough so might max at 13....etc
Surely they can get rid of those feckin santa hats now.
15W, there's hard, and there's sessions that are just too hard for me to be able to complete. I'm just not convinced of the training benefit in attempting the latter, rather than instead adapting them to something targeting the same systems, but aimed at my level.
The santa hats are an essential part of the training programme... lose them at your peril.
I intend to do all the sessions - whether I can execute them depends...
I'm with the Dr, I will attempt those 7 LT miles...inevitably I will struggle for the last mile or two though...I seem to remember last time I didn't manage the full 7....
I'm planning to essentially swap the week 11 "7 LT" week with the preceding week 10 "Recovery" week, so I have this torture a week early
. This is because I have a 10M race on 23rd Feb (end of week 11). As a result, I'm basically replacing the 14M Medium Long Run scheduled at end of week 10 with the 10M race.
Yup, worst case scenario, you're running 7 miles at 9.32-13.11mi race pace. For that session, I'll probably be closer to the 13.11 pace!
Although I dread these beforehand, I find that the pace comes on the day.
Train hard, marathon easy!
Dr Dan - won't the 10 mile race give you the same benefit (only more of it) as the 7 mile LT run? Sounds like there's no need to do both, especially as the 10 mile race falls in the right week for it anyway.
Edit: especially as racing 10 miles isn't your standard definition of 'recovery'!
Actually, you're right absolutely lit
... so perhaps I'll leave everything as scheduled, except do
20M on 16th,
14M on 19th,
10M race on 23rd
instead of the scheduled
14M on 16th,
"7 LT" on 19th,
20M on 23rd
Much prefer the sound of that!
*** off to check race schedules to see if any will fit with my 7 miles @ LT***
BINGO -- found a 15k race -- hey, that's even a proper P&D distance
You've just upgraded it to 9.32miles at LT - even nastier!
Nice!
This morning brought me...10 miles with 6 of 'em at HM pace. No, not one second of it was "fun". I barely hung onto my pace with my fingernails. Thanks god for a rest day tomorrow...
Well done yer maj. Always nice to get those tough sessions out the way. Enjoy your rest day!
Now did you all say the trick with these schedules is to run the mid-week long (they call it 'medium-long' but it's LONG i tell you) runs VERY VERY SLOW?
I hope so because that's what I'm doing.
I want to race a 10K on the 26th Jan and am not sure how to rejig around that... where shall I put that 21 miler that was meant to happen that day?
However, my LT pace is based on my marathon goal pace which I'm still 3 months off.
Soooo I don't beat myself up too much if I can't hit it but by trying to do the LT miles I hope to be getting fitter and making my target a more realistic aim.
8m at 7:16 per km
Chickadee_- you have found a 15k??! I impressed already regardless of outcome!!
5 mile recovery for me tonight. First run in ages that has felt OK. Had my referral through today to NHS physio for Monday. As always happens when a referall kicks in, my pain has improved quickly. 8 miles tomorrow night.
What I love about this (and previous) P&D threads is that we are all at such different levels, yet put in the same amount of effort and have the same fears as everyone else about completing the key sessions
Lit - I know speed is relative, and you probably consider yourself as slower - compared to the elites - but I would certainly class you as a faster runner
. I would have thought you should be aiming for LT pace nearer to your HM pace rather than 15K pace. Just thinking out loud why you may be finding those sessions so hard to complete. Have you monitored your heart rate during the LT runs?
10m GA later today. I don't yet feel recovered from the LT session!
Good news DT19.
Ladyfunrun - I think you should base your LT pace on your current level, not your hoped for in a few months. Otherwise you would be running above your LT pace for a shorter time which is probably more of a VO2 workout than a LT workout. Have you got any recent races you can get a more realistic LT pace from?
13mi for me today. I have this cold trying to start but has not gone anywhere yet, hopefully I can keep it at bay.
Ten/Lit - in the past for the longer LT runs my overall pace was definitely closer to half marathon pace....or even marathon pace in last mile or so...
Don't worry Ten - I think I'm ace! It's P&D who think I'm a slower runner; their definition of LT runs in the book says it's the pace you could race at for about an hour. I've not raced a 15k, but McMillan reckons it would take me around an hour. Therefore, I should (according to them) be using my 15k pace. 15W can probably race 10 miles in an hour, so he gets to do it at 10 mile pace.
I'm not worried about finding the sessions hard to complete; the 4 miles are fine. I just think 7 miles is too hard as a session in itself. I don't actually believe many people could run 7 miles at their 15k pace by themselves on a training run, and setting myself sessions I'll fail at isn't the way I like to train. In fact, in the explanation in the book, they seem to be arguing that similar benefits can be gained from doing long LT intervals, and that much of the benefit for marathon training (rather than just improving LT) is psychological, because you have to keep working hard for a more sustained period of time. It seems to me that this psychological benefit is the first thing that's going to be lost if you attempt the session and fail miserably at it.
15W - that kind of proves my point - not that those runs won't have been good runs in themselves, but they won't have been the runs that P&D put in their plan, which I think are too hard to do as written. And you should be running at 10 mile pace! (see above)
DT19 wrote (see)
That's the kind of moxy that makes this thread great...wipes proud manly tear from eye
I guess one way that the 7mi LT run could be tackled would be splitting into 4mi and 3mi intervals with about a mile inbetween. Just a thought.
Lit - what do you do instead of this 7mi LT run? A shorter one?
Well, I had thought about splitting up the longer LT runs into long reps rather than one continuous tempo run. But last year I raced a half marathon and decided that counted. Otherwise doing it within a race seems like a more feasible way to hit and sustain the target pace.
Lit - you've put my mind at rest
The 7m LT run gets my vote for the most intimidating run of the entire program. Finishing it feels great - but running it feels like hell.