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Simon Coaching - velloo
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Hi veloo.
my training is largely structured well but minimal mileage.
monday track, tuesday easy 2/3, Wednesday club session, various efforts (usually 5/6 miles with warm up/cool down), Thursday easy again. Then a break until Sunday which is either LSR or race. This time of year is XC
Great to see interest in the thread!
velloo, swapping Friday and Saturday will work. I'll keep rest days during the week in future.
Yes, I should have specified a warm up for the steady run. You're the best judge of how well warmed up you are, so just do whatever you feel is needed to get up to the pace.
The reps session isn't what I would class as a difficult one. It may feel a little strange running a bit faster than you are used to at first, but you should find the recoveries plenty long enough.
Because it's your first time don't be overly concerned about trying to hit 62 seconds. In fact, on the first couple of reps be a bit conservative and ease your way into it. If you ran something like 75"; 70"; 65"; 62"; 62" that would be fine. Above all, be careful. The last thing we want is you getting injured in your first week!
For the dynamic stretches try and include a few leg swings, walking high knees, running high knees, heel flicks. The 5 minutes should be a minimum. Don't worry if you need to spend longer. It's much more important to be properly warmed up for faster running.
I also forgot to mention that you should include a few 30-40 metre strides before the reps. And the recovery should be walking - but don't be worried about jogging around a little if you are recovering well and need to keep warm. The key is to go into each rep fairly fresh so you can run with good form.
So the session is revised to:
Tuesday: 2m progressive WU (start at easy pace, progress to sub-LT); 5' dynamic stretches; 3-4 x 30m strides; 5 x 300m in 62" with 3' walk recovery; 1m CD
You may find yourself a little stiff the next day after doing these at first: at a fast pace you're probably up on your toes more, have a longer stride length, are using the arms more etc. so it's biomechanically different to running at slower paces and different subsets of muscles and fibre types will be engaged. That's why I've given the option of a slow recovery run the next day - just getting some blood flowing can often be better than doing nothing at all. Some light cross training, massage or a stretching session can also work just as well, so do that if you prefer.
velloo, I know you have a few races planned in Feb/March, but one thing we haven't really identified precisely yet is when you would like to peak.
Would the month of April suit you as a "competition phase"? That would allow us a few weeks starting now to build up to pre-marathon mileage followed by two six week mesocycles.
Thanks Simon, I'll have a look at the race calendar and get back to you with my target races.
Nice one mate. Cool.
Great to see the thread up and running. Velloo what're your full set of pbs at the moment?
Let me know if you ever fancy heading up the coast a bit - you'd probably do well at the Smokies 10 in Arbroath.
It makes you wonder why Veloo doesn't just get a book on training from the library.
''Competition phase'' that sounds very serious.
Velloo what is your favourite distance?
Also following this thread closely! Am on Mona thread but this also seems to be similar to my race times... and I'm based in Edinburgh too!
Duck apart from the times already listed my other PBs are 5m - 31.32, 4m 25.07 but that's a bit old, marathon 3.14.
Minni I don't really have a favourite distance but I really enjoyed the one 5 mile race I've done, I messed up my pacing a bit by pushing too hard up the hills but the pain was short lived. Is your favourite the marathon?
Nikki if you see someone looking confused on the track at meadowbank that's me
haha, yes I only really like marathons!
But I had some parkrun success at the weekend. Not a pb (only because the course has changed slightly for repair works and its measuring a bit longer) but how's this for pacing: mile 1 6:53; mile 2 6:42; mile 3 6:28; then 6:16 for the last bit. That is definitely a less painful way to run them, rather than go off at 6:16 pace and try to hold on!!!
Well done on the parkrun Minni, looks like you were just getting warmed up!
Classic mistake from a novice Minni. Looks like you need to learn how to pace yourself properly. Starting off too slow in a 5k is just as bad as starting too fast. Even if a quick last k might feel good, it's a false economy.
I was using it was a training session, not a full out PB effort!! I'm not that much of a novice, thank you!!
If you are going to race as a training session then race properly. Try doing a proper warm up and go for even pacing. You might find you can do much better. Not a novice runner obviously Minni but your tactics were a bit naive
Lol! No tactics involved! I did a 3.5m warm up then used it for my 'quality' session. I didn't want to race it flat out because I also wanted to nail my hilly 21 on Sunday. Its all part of the plan. My point was, for me it was a much less painful way to run it (mentally more than physically perhaps).
I get that Minni. Well defended
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First speed session done! reps came out as 62, 62, 60, 61, 62. I couldn't have gone any faster but 3mins recovery was plenty, walk/jogged them as I was getting cold. Session felt very manageable especially compared to the long track sessions in the latter stages of P&D.
That does sound like a massive recovery time. Feels more like what a track sprinter would do than an endurance runner. I would only take 90s recovery if I were running 800s.
I was running 300's of very short recoveries of 100m slow jog about a month ago to try and get my pace up a bit in about the same times but had a lot of muscle soreness for maybe 2 days after each session ,maybe longer recoveries is whats needed .
Good stuff, Minni. What do you reckon you could have managed flat out?
Glad you enjoyed the session, velloo. And well done on hitting the times. When you say you couldn't have run any faster, do you mean any faster over that particular rep distance? E.g. if the reps were 200m, do you think you could have gone a bit quicker?
Yep, the recoveries are similar to what a sprinter would do, and that's deliberate. Bear in mind that 62"/300m is about 1 mile race pace. We're trying to develop speed here, so being almost fully recovered and able to attack each rep with the best possible concentration and form is important. As I said before, these sessions are going to lead us into VO2 max sessions, which will be done by a combination of increasing rep length, and reducing speed and recovery time.
In addition to the basic speed development they'll bring these rep sessions will mean you're better equipped for the harder interval sessions to follow and will gain more from them
Leslie, the muscle soreness was probably simply because you're not used to running that fast, rather than because of the short recovery times. Running at speed is different both in terms of biomechanics (e.g. stride length) and muscle fibre type used.
There is a place for running short, fast reps with short recovery, but these types of sessions are best done closer to peaking races and are less important as race distance increases.
Cheers Simon ,apart from the last 0.1 of a mile of a parkrun id never seen anywhere near that sort of pace before and my stride did have to get a good bit longer as my legs just couldnt turn over any faster.
Interesting thread ... I will certainly lurk!
Simon I doubt my 200m pace would be much faster but I meant I couldn't have gone any faster today during the session. My form was crap, felt really heavy footed don't think I was up on my toes at all. Got a few areas that aren't fully recovered from the marathon so didn't wear flats.
velloo, how do you feel in terms of general fatigue following the marathon? If there's still some tiredness in the legs then we might be a bit cautious with increasing the length of your longer runs and weekly mileage.
simon my legs don't feel fatigued it's tightness that's the issue. Saw my physio today and he said I needed to rest for a week to allow one of the soft tissue injuries to heal. He used needles on my hip so I can't even walk properly at the moment. None of my injuries are serious so I'll be back running very soon. Don't worry this won't be the shortest lived training thread ever!
Lol he's broken you after just one session!
it can tske a good few weeks for my legs to feel normal again after a raced marathon. I never know how people run fast marathons then throw out pbs in other distances soon after. I'm sure a week or two will see you come back stronger.
Simon - if I'd run the parkrun flat out it probably wouldn't have been much faster! My head struggles with running fast!
Yes one track session and my old lady legs have given up!
Funny you should say that minni. When I 'ran' my last marathon I PB'd a week later. Don't know how I managed it but was a cracking race.