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RW Forum 5 - Sub 4
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Yes today's run is a high tempo run. Fastest tempo lately was 4 miles at 7.40mm.
Nah, as you know Köln is much better than Düsseldorf
so is the marathon! In all seriousness - Köln go all out for the race and its really improved with the new route.
I can't believe you did Neolithic as your first! With times like your tempo run - you should be posting a very close 4hr time for the marathon.
How did you feel after 4 miles at that speed? Do you do any threshold runs?
I was knackered after that 4 mile run but buzzing and possibly could have run a bit longer at a slower speed. Threshold runs, now you got me... Not sure what they are... * blushes*
Seren, I do agree is does appear to be a lot of miles for a relatively slow target, for baxters this September I followed the up too 55 mile p&d plan with the long runs from the 55-70 it got me a 26 minute PB, I just thought the natural progression was too follow all of it this time round. I'm totally new to marathon training/racing and I'm open to all advice that will get me a sub 4 hopefully with some change
PC, hang around the more the merrier,
Emmy, hope the plod went well, agree with all you have said, given your experience I will listen to all your advice you must put in your fair share of miles to run the number of marathons you have. I've had a think about adding mp miles to the MLR on friday and decided against, there is enough quality already in the plan
Jindalee, welcome aboard looks like I'm the slow coach of the thread when it comes to 10ks and hm's
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Ran my 9 with 5 @ Lt this morning, it was a little breezy out with some drizzle, ran the lt section along the riverside down to the point and back around the canal basin manged to keep within the pacing guidelines and averaged 8:16 for the set, happy enough for the moment but will be looking to improve over the coming weeks...
Lee, did you manage to go out for a run today? Hope the cold keeps away from the chest
If I were not being Mentored and signed up to VLM I highly doubt I would have gone out for a run today. Today was an 8 Mile Easy and after one mile I was close to turning back as the heavens opened I was drenched. It was around then that I discovered the waterproof jacket was not waterproof. I did the run and was disappointed with the pacing. At halfway I was too fast. I managed to slow slightly on the way back, which is helped by an incline and finished with an average of 5:35p/k (8:59p/m).
Emmy - I am a mild pronator and buy trainers accordingly. I have two pairs which are rotated at present. When I am away for my wifes Birthday I plan to have my gait re-checked as we will probably be in Brighton and I think there is a Runners Need there.
As for the gels, I am happy to order some of the SiS ones. I am not terribly fussy about taste etc so long as they aren't too sweet and sickly and I feel energised by them. I have a strong stomach. I am based in a town called East Grinstead which is about 10 miles East of Gatwick Airport (UK obviously). I am fortunate as although the town is hilly but there are two disused railways, one running East and one West, which are long enough to get those 20-22 mile runs in on.
Anyone doing Jantastic? Feel free to rival me if you are.
StewartC - The cold is still there but no worse. I did feel a bit drained after the run because of it but feel fine now.
I am supposed to run a 5 Mile Tempo tomorrow. I expect this may get pushed out to Thursday. The legs are fine but the head may feel groggy after some celebration beers.
Happy New Year everyone!
Lee, well done sticking it out the conditions sounded awful, probably a wise decision to move the tempo no point aggravating your cold, I haven't signed up for jantastic yet but I will,
hope you have a great new year
How funny. When I first came to England I was Living in a little village called Nutley and always took the train to London from east grinstead. Wasn't into running then so done know any running routes around there. Used to do horse riding in the ashdown forest though.
well done on the run lee.I used to pay the staff in the east grinstead coop many many moons ago,,,
happy new year everyone!!! Here's to another year of fantastic training!
Lee - well done on getting out there. I always look at it that skin is waterproof and once you're wet - you can only be wet.
im on jantastic and will look out for you! If anyone wants to join the Paris thread we're the BCRC. How are you feeling this morning? Will you move your run to tomorrow? If you're feeling tired/sick - it's better to rest than run and make it worse. I'd get the gait rechecked just to be on the safe side.
ive got a few different gels and energy drinks if you want those to try. Im coming to the UK tomorrow so could post them then if you want.
Stewart - I think if the mileage works for you - then it's good to do. Especially if it gave you success at Loch
... Ness then do it. With the higher mileage plans you need to be aware of the quality and not just knocking out the mileage for the sack of it.
jindalee - certainly is a small world! Due to the weather in Europe - I invested last year in a Ron hill waterproof jacket. Was a fantastic purchase!
seren - happy new year to you! How are you getting on.? I saw that you've already been out for your run this morning!
dog has thrown up this morning and is currently sleeping on my feet so I'm giving him a little rest and see if he's better later on.
Blwyddyn newydd dda....
wasn't my first choice to go running at 6 am but glad i did.got it over with and then shower and back to bed
Lol - sounds like a good plan regardless. Dog went out for a 5 mile poodle around my local area. He's not on form today so he can rest whilst I visit my in-laws for new years. I'm not sure who has the better deal?
Lee - for your runs (whilst I'm struggling to access garmin connect) can you post down the mile splits here for us to see (Km/mile - whichever you'd prefer).
Lee/Stewart/other sub 4 hopers - I was having a philosophical moment whilst running and wanted to run something by you. What are your a/b/c goals for the spring marathons? E.g.
A goal: 3hrs 55+
B goal: sub 4
C goal 4.10/ new PB
Other: New PB at half marathon during a marathon
I'm lurking on this thread to pick up some tips on going sub 4. I'm doing the Manchester marathon this year, which will be my fourth, the previous times being 4:11, 4:09 and 4:15.
It seems to be the back end that lets me down, each race has seen me run a big positive split after the first half bang on target (okay the first one I overcooked and hit halfway at 1:55).
I guess my a/b/c would be:
a: sub 4
b: new pb
c: 4:10
Keep up the training, it's inspiring.
Matt
Welcome to the thread Matt! What sort of plan are you following and what paces are you training at? Also how many long runs are you doing (+18miles).
What you mention is a common issue amongst marathon runners. A fellow runner gave me the mantra: bank energy not time. This means being very strict in your pacing to not go off too fast.
Do you have a half marathon planned at all?
Seren, that shows some dedication getting an early run done
Emmy nice run with your coach earlier sound like he got the better deal,
my targets for this Spring marathon are
Gold: 3:45:00
Silver: sub 4
Bronze:PB
At the moment I'm way off my gold target, but I hope there is time to get into shape.
the one thing that concerns me about my plan is the number of miles and how they may impact the quality session, I think the key is to monitor my times/HR making sure there are signs of improvement over the coming weeks.
Matt, welcome would love to hear more about your training
I hope everyone had a cracking Hogmanay
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14 mile MLR this afternoon 7 by myself and 7 with the JS group, averaged 10:03mm @78AHR, recovery run tomorrow will keep that below 75%AHR
No run for me today. Fell asleep on the sofa last night and woke at 4am.
Eventually woke up with a hangover and a very sore throat as my cold took hold. Even if I had have felt fine I doubt I would have run as the weather has been truly awful today. An early night tonight and I'll get the Tempo in tomorrow when the sun shines just before lunch.
My targets will probably be the same as StewartC but in a different order.
A - Sub 4
B - 3:45
C - 4:10 (which would be a PB)
As much as I would love to get down to 3:45, the sub 4 is my main goal.
My mile splits for yesterday's 8 mile were:-
9:01 / 8:26 / 8:50 / 9:03 / 9:16 / 9:30 / 8:56 / 8:37
Emmy/Stewart, I've been using the FIRST plan, with one long run, one tempo run and a high intensity session each week. The mileage is relatively low overall, but the long runs are long and there are 5 greater than 18 miles over the whole program. The pace of the long runs seem quicker than a lot of folk recommend with MP +45 (c10.00) m/m as the slowest.
The question in my mind is should I put in another run to help with my endurance, and if so what should it be. When I set my marathon PB I found I had really good speed (for me!), 22:16 for 5K, sub-50 for 10K and 1:46 for a half. I still found the second half of the marathon that year tough going.
I don't have a half lined up yet, so I'm on the look out for something local to Manchester.
On the plus side, I'm faster than last year, 7 Kg lighter and injury free.
Matt
Happy new year Lee and Emmy! Consistency, mental strength and listening to your body will put you in good stead for a sub-4 Mara. Emmy is a wealth of information and a great motivator so you're in excellent hands.
New year waves to all other runners
Morning all,
Stewart - you're right and its one reason I want to see how you progress in the next few weeks. When it comes to marathon training the miles and putting the endurance in your legs is important but its VERY important to make sure that you're not overworking your body. It's a fine line and very different for every runner. What is your resting heart rate? When was the last time you checked your heart rate zones?
Lee - How are you feeling this morning? It was a good plan to miss the run yesterday. Make sure that you're getting plenty of fluids and rest (if you can with two little ones
). If you get to see the forum before your run - try to run the tempo within 10 seconds each mile of each other. So if you're aiming for 9.00 - aim to be 10seconds either side for the 3 miles.
Overthinking - First things first: Well done on the weight loss and lack of injuries. How many runs are you doing per week? I'm a little surprised that they'd put the LSR at that pace but if it works for you - then look at it. RE: Some faster endurance. Have a look at Yasso 800's if you have a track near you (http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/yasso-800s). A friend has done this in the past to get her good for age (GFA) and recommended it for building some decent speed in her legs. Maybe give this a go. For events - I know that there's a Coventry half in March. There's a decent events listing on RW that would be worth looking at.
Molly - Thanks for dropping in. It's great to see you on here. For those that don't know Molly - she's got some fantastic consistency and pacing. Molly is one of the only marathoners I know who can consistently run an even pace throughout all a marathon
Arrived to my parents this morning and it's a day in London for me. Already had a few cups of tea to prepare
Have a great day everyone
Woke again with the sore throat and a head full of cold. Will get out in an hour or two although it's going to take motivation.
Looked at last weeks' mile tempo splits. 8:14 / 8:08 / 8:06 - Not bad for consistency. I do my speedwork in a fairly flat part of town, the only problem is the hill I have to run up to get there!
I'll pop my head in here although I am beginning to think sub 4 for my first marathon may be beyond me.
Run calculators suggest based on my 5k and 10k times that 3hr 55 or so is doable but obviously it's a big old step from 10k to the marathon.
On the other hand, I have already had the most consistent training ever for me to date so I am going to do the training based on the paces suggested from my previous race times and training calculators etc and see how I go on race day.
Started with Hal Higdon Novice 2 plan but have now modified it a lot and will be switching the the P&D 55/12 plan in the middle of the month.
I am running Zurich which appears to be well organised and flat, if a little smaller than the usual suspects as an event.
I guess my goals are as follows (in order of preference):
a) sub 4 hours (optimistic)
b) sub 4 hours 30m (definitely doable)
c) finish the damn thing!
Morning everybody
Emmy, my MHR is 190 I can get close to this whilst doing hill work, recently got it as high as 186, my resting HR is about 48, I always wear my HR monitor, I don't monitor it religiously whilst running as I like to run to feel but I do review the data after a run if it's helpful I'll post both pace and hr averages so you got an idea of how I'm performing.
Matt, I don't know much about First schedules, I've followed P&D for my two marathons, I would like to hear more about though if you've got the time.
Molly, welcome any advice on pacing would be gratefully received, I do tend to go off a little too hard
Lee, hope the sore throat/cold remains above the chest, for what it's worth I would run easy until you're feeling better, Emmy what are your thoughts on running and types of runs when youve got an cold etc...
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just about to go into town to get a new pair of trainers, and I'll test them out with a recovery run later
Oh boy that was tough. Knew it would be and I blame this cold. The legs felt numb as I neared the top of the hill on the 1 mile warmup. 49.9% of me wanted to jack it in after 1 mile of Tempo but somehow I stuck with it. It was a tad slower than last week which isn't really surprising. I can run a lot quicker and expect km times to drop by 10-15 seconds in the next week or two.
Splits were surprisingly (per mile) 8:13 / 8:16 / 8:08
I don't usually have too much trouble with consistant pacing. For example, my HM in October had mile splits of 7:51 / 8:00 / 7:59 / 7:56 / 7:58 / 8:09 / 8:10 / 7:50 / 8:08 / 8:11 / 8:16 / 7:57 / 7:38
I just read that any Advanced Workouts will not show laps within Garmin Connect, only times for each step. That's why I use Sporttracks as it does all of this for you. However, I am reprogramming my workouts so a 12 mile run will be 1 mile repeated 12x. This will then show each mile as a split/lap and I can simply post the url for each run.
managed my long run today 11.5 miles.faster than normal as I was running with hubby
Lee, well done getting the tempo run done when you're not feeling well, how do you feel now? consistent pacing during your HM, there was as much as 30 seconds difference per mile for me 8:08 - 8:40, so there is some work do do there
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Easy 4 done, ran my usual route down by the river average pace was 10:21mm @74% the legs are feeling a lot fresher now
Gosh these threads move fast...like our little legs!
Congrats to Lee and great mentoring so far Emmy. I'm keenly following all sub4 progress for my road to Paris but am upping my mileage a lot slower so as to stay injury free. I'm using an RW plan and nicking mid week speedier sessions from different threads, just to keep things interesting.
I've also commited myself to Jantastic but still not sure really what it's all about.
Emmy, love the pic with your pooch. I try to run with my jack russell Hugo but he's a bit fair weather!
Cleanshoes - welcome to the thread. Are you willing to share your times so that we can provide feedback/advice on pace/timing. You mention 10k times but when was your last half marathon? (if you have one?). Can you give me a little of your running background/history. Are you a regular runner? How long have you been running? Unless I had a few years running in my legs I would not contemplate P&D due to the mileage!
Stewart - bring on the shoe purchase! Which ones did you buy? I'm always interested in heart rate as I think it can be a good indicator of how hard you're working. Well done on the recovery run - that's a good pace but your heart rate seems a tad high for a recovery run. What do you normally keep it at?
RE: Colds. I base running on where it is. If its just in the head - then i'll run but take it easier and base my pace on my heart rate. If its in the chest then i'll be more cautious and rest a few days. This could also be because I'm asthmatic and have to be very careful if infections/colds go to my chest. The one thing that I'm slowly learning (through fault) is that if you're ill/injured then its better to have a rest day and come back stronger than risk feeling under the weather for longer. I'm lucky (so far) never to really have a bad enough cold/flu to stop me running.
Lee - well done on getting out there and that's some great times for a tempo with a cold. How are you feeling now? Your splits for the half marathon show a lot of positive aspects especially as you managed to keep an even pace AND have 2 speedy last miles. This gives a lot of comfort for the marathon training.
Seren - how are you feeling after your 11miler? That's a good distance for a MWLR!
Ruffles - Welcome to the thread
It's good to see another Parisian on here aiming for sub 4. Have you joined the BCRC team for Jantastic? You're welcome to rival me if you want! For the speed sections - give the yasso's a try. Feel free to post pictures of pets 
Boyska just wants to run... he doesn't care if it's raining or cold!
I'll be doing a gentle 8 miler tomorrow morning with the pooch. He's having a rest day with my mum and dad and being spoilt rotten (my mum just asked... does he want a raw chicken for breakfast or dinner?
)
Emmy.that was my long run..I do it midweek not on the weekend....
Hi all, finally got round to posting on here. Having run all over the place with Emmy I agree you're in safe hands - she absolutely does not give up. She knows her stuff about nutrition too. And if you think she's joking about the Batgirl costume, she really isn't.
My first goal this year is Barcelona - after six months of rather unusual and random running activities, I'm back in 'serious' training. I've done sub 4 before, but I'd like to run a steady, even-paced race at just under 4 hours (I need it as a qualifier for a race later in the year). So I'll be following this thread with interest.
Stewart - I too have experienced the 'march of death' at Lochaber. For me it was poor preparation, but it's a hard race on the brain, as an out and back. And I'm crewing for friends at DOTH this year (too chicken to run it...yet). Your mileage does seem very high this early in the plan - if you're used to it, that's fine, but as Emmy says, I'd be very aware of any minor injuries or unusual fatigue and be prepared to drop it back a bit.