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Sub 3:30 Stevenage Marathon 2 November
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My last marathon effort was London where I hit 13miles pretty much dead on 2 hours and then spectacularly died and ended up with a 4:5x finish.
That was off a 1:48 half time. My predicted time was 3:40. I was comfortable with 9:20 for the 20mile runs. I think I went out too fast early on and the heat hit me. My previous PB on a hilly trail during a Novemebr was 9:2x.
My advice would be to aim for a 4hour finish time as you've seen before what happens to you when you get to the high miles.
Really you need to get a half marathon in ASAP to give you a better idea, unfortunately it's going to be hot.
If you are local to Stevenage PM me.
Cant work out how to PM so far. Good post Tim, see it is possible to give sound advice without being patronising. I would prob be happy with sub 4 hours but I was looking at the training regime for it and it looked(and dont any one take this the wrong way) easy. I am from Bedfordshire but live near Brighton now, my parents are still up there and so I will get a nice fat roast dinner after the run. Shouldnt be hot in November, just hope it isnt rainy or windy or icy.
Had a real tough game of squash after work then an hour of five a side in goal, took a few knocks and my knee is a little sore, not a good start for day 1, glad it is all easy runs this week. Gonna have to go easy on the squash I think whilst I am doing this. Did a half in March in 1:52, but have since done 10 and12 miles in training at 8min miles, that was easier than the half. Yeah my 3 maras to date have been car crash stuff after 20 miles,but I only ever did 18 miles in training and I was walking at the end of those, my training was awful tbh. I was also getting p1ssed most days. This time I am starting from a much better base and am starting a structured training regime so think it is reasonable to expect to do much better than I had done before. Whatever will be will be, if I dont get close to 3:30 I shallnt be slitting my wrists or anything, just thought I would give it a go that's all.
Basher, don't do a plan with a specific time attached to it, do one where the starting mileage and build-up looks like what you can handle (rather than 'easy') and use the McMillan calculator to work out your own paces.
Well believe it or not that is what this 3:15 plan looks like. It looks very challenging but doable. And if I am struggling then I would just move to the 3:30 plan which(barring the runs over 15 miles which I guess the whole point of a training regime is that you build up to these longer runs) I could do now.
Sure, but what I mean is, do the plan you think looks right, but don't use the prescribed paces (i.e. slow down). I followed a sub 1:50 plan for my first three half marathons, even though that wasn't my goal, because it should have really been called 'half marathon plan for people who want to run 5 times a week and peak at 40 miles'. But I used paces appropriate to my level and it worked really well.
Actually just remembered why I suddenly got the idea of doing another marathon in a good time. Started running again mid Jan, 6mins/km I was doing got faster and longer and about March time I did 15 miles in 2:15...9 min miles. Suddenly thought well fk me that is sub 4 hour pace. I could do a sub 4 hour marathon - So I entered the Brighton marathon 2015. So kept on training and have largely concentrated on getting my 5k and 10k (did 44:30 on a treadmill) down and my aspirations have increased since, as long as I am not stupid and get injured or ignore sound advice I dont see the harm in dreaming. so i went for the Stevenage marathon because I couldnt wait a whole year.
Lit... I have already decided to do the LSR at slower than the 8min miles on the plan as a direct result of this thread and advice on it. See the forum works someone asks for advice, advice is given, advice is accepted and taken on board. No need for all the sarcasm and patronising. I really want to acheive the speedy times along the way too(and as I shall be doing these on a treadmill you could argue that I am doing it at a slower pace because I find it easier on a TM. Did 19:50 for 5k on there Friday day before the 20:66 park run. dont know if it is the lack of air resistance and inclines, nice running surface or perhaps just the nice tempo and rhythm of a TM but historically whatever I have done for park run is 1 min slower than on a TM.
Ouch! I wasn't being sarcastic, and I think you've been given quite a lot of genuinely helpful advice, not (just) by me.
Some of your posts at lunchtime today surely had a hint of sarcasm. No worries anyway just had to get it off my chest, I have thick skin.
Not at all. I genuinely do think that if you've built up a good aerobic base and are running at an appropriately easy pace, even the longest runs feel effortless. It's wonderful. You forget you're even breathing. That's one of the things I love about running.
Takes bloody ages though. That's why I'm a one marathon a year girl.
In that case I sincerely apologise.
The running slower than marathon pace for your LSR just seems counter intuitive to me. Having said that it is what I shall do as it is accepted practice (had read the theory before this thread) but I would be very surprised if doing 22 miles at 9+ min miles will prepare me for 26 8 min miles, Or even 22 10 min miles will allow me a sub 4 hour marathon. I hope I am wrong. Like I say those LSR would have to feel relatively easy to be able to go longer and quicker come the big day.
I still run the majority of my long run mileage at 8.30 ish min miles but end up able to go quite a bit faster than that on race day.
Come on Millsy, don't be so coy, how much is 'quite a bit'?
If your race pace for a half is 8:30/mi you will just burn out running all your 13mile runs as races. Initially you will be fine but after about 6 weeks the wheels will fall off the waggon.
You really need to understand what the aim of each training run is. Particularly the role of the LSR.
Good luck.
I did 44:30 on a treadmill, can I use thattime? Where do you get these figures from.
I would take your 1:52 half as the most accurate indicator of your current fitness. Train to a 3:50/3:55 marathon. Then run a half 6 weeks before Stevenage, you will then get a good idea of pacing for Stevenage, bearing in mind you will be pretty shot from the marathon training by then. That gives you 6 weeks to recover and taper.
IF you are a well trained athlete (ie plenty of race experience, good aerobic base and a firm link between receover/easy/marathon/threshold/5k/1mi paces) then you can plug a 5k time into a calculator and get a reasonable estimate of what you might just get in a marathon if all starts line up, you have a good day, training goes right, you dont get injured, nutrition works a treat, its flat, not too hot, not too windy and your well chosen race strategy clicks with no snags or mishaps on the day. (like mo farah dropping his bottle, or a twunt taking your legs out from under you, as he lurches across for a gel shot station at 21 miles).
If you dont tick most of those boxes you need a (real) 10k or half marathon as the input and even then you should be more conservative as to what you think that might convert to at marathon.
Honestly I'd focus on just doing the training, and then use a full tilt half marathon race or TT to tune up with 6-8 weeks to go. That will tell you what goal time is 'on.' At this stage if you can get a 4hour-ish marathon with no blow up at the end and wher you just find the last 3 miles hard as opposed to hellish tahts a great result. You can build from that.
Mate at work did a 16 week 3:30 plan having just done a year or so's occasional running. His last long run was 22.5 miles in 3:00 @ 8mm. (well that is what he told me). On the day he was doing 8 and a bit minute miles until the last stretch when it went to 9, 10 and then 12 min miles. Got round in 3:49, not a bad effort I thought, but seems odd considering that 22.5 miler he did. Would be well chuffed to beat his time.
Good post Nayan. I will be happy to beat 4 hours, especially 3:49 that 2 of my work mates did. I've told everyone who is interested I just want to beat 4 hours, this forum is the only place where I have mentioned 3:30.
There was a thread building up to VLM this year where lots of blokes wanted to go sub 3 and most thought the best way to do it was to do all their long runs at 6:50 pace. They mostly didn't go sub 3, to no-one's surprise.
8mm is goal pace for a 3:30 target.
Doing your long runs entirely at goal pace is really really fucking stupid. I know this because I tried doing my last 20miler before the taper at 8mm when going for the same targe, just so I would know what id feel like at 20 miles.* It gave me a hip niggle which made me stress out and make my taper more severe than it shouldve been. I just about got away with it and made the starting lineup and only just misssed my target - but looking back I wish I hadn't done it. It just makes for extra injury risk.
Its entirely possible to run a decent 20 miler at a given pace but see the wheels come off entirely if you try to stretch it to 26.2. Marathon is wierd like that: get your paces wrong and you dont just slow up - you can conk out completely.
*answer, not great, and it told me that doing the last 10k at the same pace would feel like an eyeballs out full tilt 10k at best.
You know, I actually think I couldn't do a 20-mile training run at marathon goal pace, even if it was a good idea, which I think we've established it isn't. I've run two marathons faster than goal pace, though, which shows that it is possible. Also nice to surprise yourself on the day.
That said I think there is a pace for long runs split into thirds (easy pace, then steady pace, then marathon goal pace). Use sparingly...