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Sub 3 Tom: #asics262
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well done sorequads -great PB at Wrexham
Stamford 30k (plus warm up) for me today. Plan was 10k @ MP+ 20% (8.00), 10k@ MP +10% (7.20) and 10k at MP (6.40). Actual averages for each 10k were 7.55, 7.18, 6.37. The hardest bit was running as slowly as 8 min miling, downhill, with swarms of runners coming past me! Saving my legs for the The National next weekend though, so not tempted to risk anything faster.
Tom hope the injury clears and you get back on the road soon , you are flying .
Steve after a bit of advice my long runs have been going well two 16 two 18 and after today two 20 milers all completed ave pace for these have all been under 7.30 and was able to run sub 7s for the last 5 miles today.Should I move up to 22 miles now ,stick at 20 miles for a few weeks or drop down to 18 miles again only one warm up race planed for London a half 5 weeks before
Great run sorequads! That’s some going.
Also great run Speedy! Agree that running the 8 min miles can be hard sometimes. Especially at the start of a run, but sounds sensible to save yourself for next weekend.
Thanks Jim – hopefully be back on the roads this coming week.
Was gutted when my club XC results came through from yesterday – a 5 mile race against Thames Hare & Hounds. Looked like a ‘slow’ race with the winner running 29:42. Definitely feel I could have challenged for that one!
good run and good control Speedy.
Tom, might have been the awful muddy Thames course so not as slow as it may have looked.
Jim, I would suggest a 22 next but run it slower and steadier then drop to 18 and 20 and then try a 22 with some slightly faster running in 3-4 weeks
Thanks Steve
Evening all...
Tom - welcome to the injury bench...hopefully you should be back running before too long... I am taking all the advice and resisting the urge to run till I know I am 100% healed. ATM I woukd say I'm about 75%of the way there.. Thank god for indoor bike trainers...
Sorequads - fantastic time, well done..
missed the pun there - you're on a roll.
Steve- you have been around the marathon world a while so you will have witness the changing advice in the below link. As much as Tim Noakes comes out with some over the top statements...eat sugar and you will die etc I do agree that the best advice for most runners is to drink to thirst. For older runners or on very hot days, I would say drink little and often. I will write up an overview article on hydration in the next couple of weeks.
http://www.outsideonline.com/blog/outdoor-adventure/tim-noakes-on-the-serious-problem-of-overhydration-in-endurance-sports.html
The Haile G. statement was via an interview/ personal communication with an author so the amount of carbs he took may be slightly lower but loads of evidence that you can train your gut to take on more carbs (malcs...) but you need to practice in the weeks before marathon to make sure these are put to work so perhaps malc you did not practise as much this time round before marathon? My advice is aim for 40-up to 60g per hour in a regular runner (many elite athletes do not consume 60g per hour but I guess you need to question is this optimal? or if athletes where prepared to train with carbs more would they be able to take more on and maintain pace better but elite athletes are often too preoccupied with the worry of body fat to do so . I think 40g per hour is a good aim but in last 1-2 some may need more but I often advice lower in first couple of hours if person struggles and I feel they have carb loaded before but I always listen to what a runner tells me and work out from there as you are unlikely to get your perfect in race fuelling plan the first time round.
Tom - sound like you will be back running very soon.
Interesting stuff ftom Tim N.
Certainly in my earlier marathons, if you took drinks at anything other than every 5km, you would have been disqualified and the thought back then that a big marathon would give out drinks every mile would have been laughable.
In London where I barely drank in 1981, it was drizzly and wet and cool and there was no chance of overheating. Normally i do take on some drinks in marathons and would drink more and slow down if it was hot.
Agree Drinking too much is dangerous and worse than not drinking enough.
I don't ever drink on long runs during the winter and don't think there is a great need if it is cool and you are well hydrated from the start but i always carry some money with me for emergencies and would go into a shop if I was really thirsty..
Personally i would think it is best to leave a drink somewhere rather than carry a bottle for a long way. I have known runners to pick up small niggles and imbalances by carrying a bottle in the same hand for three hours!
Yesterday I used the bloks and found them useful for keeping the mouth moist.
hey Tom Rann, over half way now!!!! Hope alls good. See you on Sunday
During my long runs I have started using a camelbak.. It took me a little while to get used to it but since it is only 1l it doesn't weigh too much so I hardly notice it on my back..plus I tend to add 2 caffiene gels to the water which gives me the carbs in my water too and saves me from having to carry any gels...I cant run with a water bottle in my hand, drives me insane.
I think it was pretty muddy but I like to dream!!! haha
Iain – sorry to join you on the injury bench. Glad you’re able to do stuff on the bike and getting better.
Ruth, hoping to be back for Brighton half this weekend although won’t be clocking a super fast time if I am. Shall I try the 24hr carb load you suggested for Watford Half? Also, should I take any gels during race? My instinct is that it’s not needed.
Really interesting regarding drinking too much. I hadn’t given that any consideration. It’s such a fine balance! I try to avoid carrying bottles on longer runs as well. I guess then it’s not advisable to drink much during the race as that would be a completely different routine to my training runs.
Managed a slow jog to the gym this evening followed by 15 minutes on the treadmill. Felt good whilst running but a bit tight since so clearly still not 100%. Steve, what would you suggest for tomorrow?
Tom
you do have to get used to drinking in races and so that's why it is useful to do a few longer races and I would suggest a gel for the half-marathon even if it is less necessary than in a marathon and the effect may be relatively minimal.
and while it might not be necessary for someone who has done 60 plus marathons , relative inexperienced runners probably should practice in a few training runs taking on drink.
A few years ago Paris was very warm and most runners suffered and is important runners have experience of mixing running and drinking. It might be something we practice in the next training day!
re tomorrow's run - would suggest probably up it to a flat 30-40 minutes at a slow pace - maybe pick up slightly on the second half suggest no faster than 7:30 miles until last few miles.
Hope you're getting back to normal Tom.
10 mile coastal run this morning with awesome views along the national trust pathways. Pace was a bit slower, but terrain was steep in places. Hope to do the same tomorrow.
Evening all. Some creative pancakes here:
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/recipes/the-ultimate-runners-guide-to-pancakes/9070.html
I couldn't resist one myself, but don't worry it was approved by Ruth
More importantly,I'm the happiest man as I managed a 5.4 mile pain free flat run this evening. The first 4 miles at 7:30-7:50 pace and the final 1.4 miles at marathon pace.
Hopefully I can do a long run tomorrow and a speed session on Thursday and then I should be good to run Brighton half at the weekend. Should still be able to run a respectable time although I doubt it will to my potential.
That's great news Tom - the run not the pancakes - good to hear you are batter, sorry better
maybe try 10 miles at 7:30s tomorrow?
Ruth - many thanks. You're probably right about the practice. I did practice having gels etc. to make sure they didn't upset the system but I didn't practice with a particularly large quantity. I'll make sure I try taking on a higher volume this time round and see what happens.
Sorequads - bloody hell, you totally nailed that one!
Steve - lol, just when we thought the puns had dried up!
Re. the drinking, it's amazing how times and opinions change. You were clearly all hard as nails back then. You'll be telling us you didn't even have Garmins next
Iain - you're being very sensible to hold off the return until everything is ship shape. Good to hear you have a good way to keep the fitness levels up while everything calms down.
KR - never been to Cornwall but it is supposed to have some amazing coastline. That run of yours sounded brilliant. Hope the weather is being kind!
Tom - great news on the run! Sounds like you have the calf issue almost sorted now. Hope the run tomorrow goes well!
I did week 3 of the programme last week and it all went really well. Sunday's 15 @ 7:30 pace was quite tough though. I was a little off the pace averaging 7:36 and a bit sore afterwards but overall I was pretty pleased. Onto week 5 now and 15 x 400m today. Averaged between 86 and 93 per rep. Not quite in the same league as you lot but it's progress for me.
10 at 7:30s sounds good.
Weather for Brighton on Sunday is looking REALLY wet and windy. Lovely!
The fruit loaf/bara brith given away at the end of the race (instead of a medal - a muh better idea) was delicious. Although I foolishly shared it with family = nearly gone in seconds.
Tom - very pleased to hear you're running again. I injured my soleus at the beginning of Feb last year - I think a few days after some very steep hill repeats. I could run again after four days but 12 miles was my limit for another week or so after that. Jumped on the bike at the gym to replicate some lost sessions. Best of luck at the half and really hope the soleus is ok.
Great running Malcs - getting quicker by the week.
Reps so soon after a tough PB half will always feel harder sore quads.
Did another coastal run this morning. Av pace on the coastal path was 8.48 as the climbs were insanely tough. It was actually harder going back down as they were so steep. Finished off with a 6.37 along the canal in the harbour.
Thanks Sorequads. I'm so happy to be back running! Changing direction reach rep - tut tut! Doing a track session on your own when fatigued can't be the easiest thing. Guess the pace is relevant to the distance of your reps. If a longer distance rep then sounds like a good effort to me!
Coastal run sounds seriously fun KN! Careful on those steep inclines and declines though.
Something must have gone wrong with my forum page as I can't see any posts from Malcs but other people are referencing them ........ weird. Sorry Malcs! Not sure what is going on?
Did someone say something? I thought I heard Tom for a moment but it must have just been the wind
Just kidding Tom
It may be that you *accidentally* put me on your Ignore list. Either that or RW Towers don't want me poisoning you with my moronic drivel
To check this go here:
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/members/me/settings/forum/
Somewhere on there you'll see your ignore list which I believe you should be able to change. Once you've done it let me know and I'll take you off my Ignore list as well
Great to hear you're enjoying the return from injury high!
Sorequads - many thanks!
You track rebel you! Widths next week maybe?
KR - cheers, I think you're right there. The short 1 min recoveries were probably the reason my pace varied quite a bit.
8:48 pace on steep, off road hills is fine going - clearly didn't take too much out of you either with that kind of a finish!
Tom. I managed to ignore someone last year (and no idea now I had managed to do this) so here is link below in case you are still not seeing Malcs' posts ... whether accidentally on purpose ; )
Was just popping on to find out how leg was.
And suddenly Malcs' messages appear again! Thanks Ruth!
Oppps. sorry Malcs - not sure how that happened. Complete accident honestly!! Although thinking about it, it could come in handy if Scotland beat England in the 6 Nations
haha
Just back from 10.07 miles at 7:21 average pace. Felt good throughout which is encouraging. Looks like it might be the last dry run for a while unfortunately! erg. I don't mind racing in the wet but training runs are not so great.
Ruth - I will be good to do Brighton and can do a practice carb load?
That's good running Tom and good sessions KR and Malcolm and sorequads
On Sunday incentive to run fast and get it over with! - 16mph wind at 9am and 26mph at Noon
Tom re tomorrow - maybe a 5 miler accelerating up to near HM pace
ie 7:30, 7:10, 6:50, 6:30, 6:15 and then slow mile warm down