Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
Low Carb (high fat) Pirates
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Sounds more like electrolye crash (keto Flu) rather than sugar. I don't use any specific post run fuel. I may eat a normal meal, omelette and salad or some coffee with butter and coconut fat. At three weeks in I am not surprised you felt tired after a 14 mile run at 7.17 mile, you can't rush it and pushing to hard will make you do things like reach for the sugar which will knock you metabolism out for a while, slowing down the adaption period.
The more I consider this the more i think it may be keto flu, if it comes back once you have metabolised the sugar try 1/4 to 1/2 a teaspoon of salt in a cup of water.
I would also suggest, if you haven't already read this full thread as there is loads of info from different contributors and also some nice recipes/meal plans and a few podcasts and youtube videos.
I must admit , after a carvery lunch I am feeling quite normal plus I avoided the Yorkshire pud and the potatoes so, happy with my food choices. I generally would take an electrolyte drink with me on runs of 10 miles or more but today I chose not to..I have a tendancy to push quite hard with training as that's where I'm comfortable Although today felt quite slow.. It is a huge learning curve at the moment and I'm grateful for any advice..
I am of course guessing but having just read you post and having helped loads of people through this process. I don't think you are as low carb as you think, but of course I could be wrong, you pushed very hard on your run today and finally went in to strong ketosis that caused the keto flu.
if you really want to get the best of the adaptation process you a re going to need to take it easy in training.
Message me your email and I will send you some training info I got from the coach that I use.
Edited to add:
I am not much for writing things down and certainly have never kept a diary except for appointments but when I was struggling to get it right in the beginning I kept a food diary and made a couple of printed list of the rough amount of carbs in foods. I managed the first time for a few weeks and learnt that I was eating more carbs than I though and the second time it did it it was only two weeks and i discovered that full fat cream cheese and whipping cream were not helping me out. So it may be worth trying it out.
I've been trying this out for a couple of months now but didn't see any immediate weight loss (no gain either which i was surprised at considering the amount of fat i introduced to my diet
).
About 3 weeks ago i bought some ketostix and was surprised to see that I wasn't keto adapted at all. I immediately cut out my double cream and macadmia nuts. I don't know if it was coincidence or not but ended up having to take a week annual leave. My head and legs ached like no-ones business and I slept for 3 days.
I'm persevering, eating only whole foods and restricting carbs to green leaves and cauliflower but still don't register with the ketostix at all?
I have lost 5lb though which I have been unable to do previously.
A quick calculation of my daily carb intake puts my below 50g per day.. i normally start My day with a couple of scrambled eggs and a cup of coffee. Mid morning I have a salad with tuna or smoked salmon and full fat Mayo and another coffee. Lunch is sliced ham and cream cheese and a small amount of strawberries in natural yogurt and or nuts and dinner is bolognase without the spaghetti...
I'll message you my email address...
Noakes promotes a different approach to Keto in his Banting or LCHF style. Both approaches are valuable.
Here is a link to Proff Noakes new website http://www.thenoakesfoundation.org/
Duda - Could I please have a look at that info as well? I was doing quite well, steady weight loss but since upping the training I seem to have increased weight. I have added in some carbs before training because I was seriously bonking in hard efforts and read up on female endurance eating where it told me I need to be having 100 - 150g of carbs if training hard that day (i.e when training for an Ironman).
I also had an absolute carb bender while on a weekend away this week. My body was not pleased and I woke up ill on Sunday night.. oops.
Thanks Duda, that's promising, my carbs have been similar: bananas, sweet potato and quinoa usually.
Coops, might be worth looking back and finding the link to the pod cast from Tim Noakes, but of memory serves you have already listened to it and got his book?
for me in winter long low effort rides I can manage on less than 50 Gms per day but in peak training I need to up it to about 100Gms ( still only 300 Kcals) I may also take a bit on board during the session. I like rice bran syrup for this as its pure glucose I aim for between 10 and 30 gms per hour and think drip drip drip, little and often. Some times just sucking on a boiled sweetie during the intervals is enough. I have emailed through the plan I sent Iain but it is more designed at people still going through the adaption period.
Re the carb bender it often takes me up to a week to recover from them and I have found that longer I have been fat adapted the longer it takes to burn of all the carbs and get back to what I now think of as normality
Just re read my last post sorry for the typos it was quickly written during tea break at work.
Thanks Duda! I have the book, but haven't listened to the podcast - is it the same info? Glad it's not just me that a) has carb benders and b) takes all week to recover. My usual training sessions this week have been horrific.
I'm about to take a two week rest break before starting Ironman training after Christmas. I'll stick to low low carb during these weeks then start back on the 100ish gms a day. Good advice on the mid-session fueling, I'll have to start experimenting with that too. So exciting.
No probs re typos - I'm lenient when it comes to forums
Trying to get a head of next years fueling for long rides and tough interval sessions I have been experimenting with Palatinose, its a slow release carb source that does not spike the insulin levels leaving you fully able to burn fat too. I find two scoops (150-200 Kcals) in a bidon is enough for a 3+ hr ride. Again think drip drip , drip. little and often.
Looking back on the notes I took last year during my long sessions i was able to do 4 hr ride with a 1 hr run off the bike completely fasted but the head state during these sessions was very dark, as soon as I added in a little fuel the sessions be came more bearable mentally.
I get mine from Myprotien.
Thanks for the lenience Coops, funny enough if I when I do over do the carbs the first thing to suffer is my ability to type without mistakes,,,,,,,, it was the first thing I noticed at the start of my journey.
Interesting observation this week!
I had Manflu last weekend but felt ok monday so did my usual heavy swim on Monday night then ran 10K Tuesday Evening, even though I felt crappy - MISTAKE! the manful came back with a vengeance and is only just gone again.
Anyway the observation is that I decided to Fast the Manflu into submission and didn't eat for 24hrs which was remarkably easy (I guess fat adaption) and also had a massive positive impact on the Manflu within 12hrs the headache and shivers had gone and no more snot!
Is this something to do with the anti-inflammatory nature of a Ketogenic Diet I wonder? Whats that old wives tale "Starve a Virus Feed a Cold"?
evening all....
Its been a very mixed week for me. Been working overtime so my eating patterns and training patterns have been a bit haywire. I've struggled with food this week as all ive wanted to do is pick and everytime i pass the fridge i open it and nibble. Its been driving me insane plus i seem to spend my time constantly hungry. as for the training i am finding at the end of a session, I have sufficient energy to push the last mile or so, which i guess is a good thing.
At what point did you start to notice a difference in training? I have noticed my HR has dropped. My resting HR is 50 and after a hard 6 mile run it sits around 140 but falls fast.
There are Christmas carbs everywhere.. I just don't know if I can cope. Lucky my training plan starts after Christmas really..
My training hasn't improved, but I haven't trained consistently or hard yet this year. I'll get back to you in January Love.
Interesting flu observations Effing - did it remain at bay?
It was only a cold/virus Coop but it just up and went away and didn't come back
So I am just looking at cutting my carbs down a bit - not getting down to ketosis, but reducing the excessive carb intake.
Is that just a recipe for disaster, (not one nor the other) or do you get some benefit / increase in fat burning ability?
OK4, read back a bit for links to lowcarb and no carb approaches in detail, however you will need to go low for a longer period or cold turkey for a shorter period, both routes increase fat efficiency and are equaly valid. I did a bit of mix and match and have ended up fully keto but thats mainly because of my diabetes, however it has a lot to reccomend it as an approach to athletic performance in endurance sport
Hi all, just wondering how you managed Carbmas (
) ? I didn't do to bad, a couple mince pies Christmas eve, Christmas dinner was to be as expected with stuffing bread sauce and roast potatoes but I knew that and had taken a view that some times you have to roll with it 
Oh and a piece of Christmas Pud, but I swapped out the brandy sauce when I saw how much sugar my wife put in it for some home made sugar free blackberry icecream. To be honest it was better than the brandy sauce.
I always knew it would kick me out of ketosis, but what surprised me was how long it would take me to get back in. The 27th of Dec was the anniversary of me going low carb and last year. I went for a 20 km walk on the 27th and by the morning of the 28th I had depleted my glycogen stores and was suffering with a really bad keto/Atkins flu style where my body had dropped all its electrolytes. This year. I fasted on the 26th, just some coffee with butter and coconut oil to treat the hunger, ate a normal high fat diet on the 27th, the yesterday we rode a 100km on the bikes with near 2000 mtrs of climbing including the Tumble all fasted and this morning I am barely registering any ketones still.
It just goes to show how much my body has learnt to burn fat and conserve carbohydrate in the last year.
Anyway, I hope all is going well for you all and at the least if not you enjoyed the festivities
HI Olivia, if your interested there is a huge amount of information on this thread including loads of suggested meal plans and alternatives.
I was doing really well until last night, when I felt the urge (brandy induced) to consume all the unwanted Roses / Quality Street and biscuits left in the house before returning to work today
I got a Ketonix for Christmas.
Well, I was doing pretty poorly and then I had a super bad reaction to something I ate on boxing day and thus couldn't keep anything down for the next 24 hours or so. Counts as a fast right? Back to it now, all about the healthy.
Your efforts are impressive as always Duda!
Ghost, I often have that kind or urge. But this year I deposited all my Christmas chocolates at the in-laws in an attempt to keep the house chocolate/sweet free.
Thanks Coop's.
Ghost, its always going to be difficult this time of year, the combo of alcohol and difficult food choices every where are a challenge. Look at it as an opportunity to test you Ketonix
Hi all, just wanted to say merry Christmas and thanks for keeping this excellent thread alive - really enjoying reading everyone's posts and experiences!
I did 3 weeks completely low carb in October (with excellent support of this forum) but afterwards had my birthday weekend and a massive binge of alcohol/chocolate, and haven't been able to get myself back on the LCHF wagon since! Busy work, moving house and endless Christmas parties didn't help, but no excuses, I know people manage to combine LCHF with all life situations.
Finally registered for my first triathlon next year (Outlaw half, 3rd July), so training starts after new year and with that - LCHF lifestyle.
I am also very interested in what effect does the 'middle ground' of 100-150g of carbs a day have on metabolism/fat oxidation. It is not low enough to put me in ketosis, but is that still better than high carb low fat? Realistically 100g/150g of carbs is my sweet spot, as my diet normally consists of porridge for breakfast, and salad+meat / veg+meat for lunch/dinner (v low carb) + a carby snack (cereal bar). Would be keen to understand the trade off between giving up porridge (which is oh so dear to me) and the benefits of a lower carb diet..
Sorry, rant over!
Hi TallGirl, nice to hear from you again. Glad you enjoy the thread and I try to keep it going as its is a subject very dear to my heart. As an ex porridge lover ( is still love it just very seldom eat it) the trade off is the ability to truly burn fat and awlays needing some carbs during races and training. There is nothing wrong with your approach but I would probably leave out the cereal snack bar as it will be pretty high in some sort of refined sugar.
I did look back through the thread as I know I answered this one before, but couldn't find my answer, but in my understanding is that when we eat concentrated carbs we shut down the bodies ability to burn high levels of fat, well we switch the body over to burning sugar. This is because of the super tight regulation of blood sugar. Over a very small amount of sugar/carbs in the blood ( think 3 teaspoons full) and it becomes very dangerous. This is Hyperglycaemia for diabetics, but for non diabetics its not a health problem as such (well, I could write a whole long essay on this) because the body releases insulin to help manage the sugar.. Slow release carbs such as oats keep this process going much longer as they drip feed carbs into the bloodstream over a long period meaning it takes longer to get back to a low basal insulin level allowing the body to burn fat as it primary fuel supply.
Probably worth listening to this again
http://www.trispecific.com/fb-86-banting-for-health-performance-with-timothy-noakes/
Last year during some of my peak training sessions I would often eat unto a 100 gms of carbs the day before, but would choose stuff like sweet potato or even ordinary potatoes but smothered in butter, I found California rolls quite good to as cold rice has a different glyceamic index to hot rice..
Edit:: Did a bit of digging and found this thread on the Diabetes forum ( always useful info on low carb) I havent had time to read it yet and may not get round to it but there may be some insight in it for you TG.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/porridge-and-low-carbs.12204/
At the end of the day its all about find what works for you and you can comfortably sustain.
Hi Tallgirl, i was in the middleground as you call it for quite a while and i defo got more efficient in races an example was scraping sub 6hrs on a hard 70.3 but only using 5 gels, which in theory with glycogen stores gave me around (3hrs) of glucose so must have fueled the other 3 on fat?
On the other subject i had a bad carb day yesterday with bread wine and chocolates, the first time in around 10 weeks of Keto and was worried I was in for a long haul back to full Ketosis
Fortunately I got up this morning, had a BPcofee and then a little later a fasted 9mile MMaff run, 2 hrs later showing medium Ketones in my pee!
Must be much beffer adapted than I thought! Happy days!
Hello my name is Buttercup and since September I have been a raving carbo-holic, but now dragging myself back to the fold
have managed to stack on extra kilos that need to come off 
Hope you all had a good Christmas break!
Back on the right track, I did a 41 mile fasted ride this morning. It wasn't particularly quick but my legs felt okay, still a bit snotty though so that didn't help.