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Low Carb (high fat) Pirates
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Duda,
Geeky is good mate, I like the detail.
I have only just thought about it cos you mentioned it above, but the excess water thing is interesting, I have been urinating a lot recently and not to put too fine a point on it there has been a distinct "Chemical" Acrid smell - Dumping Salt?
Also noted resting HR is elevated to 55+ from usual 45+
Will try and continue with 180 minus age for another week and will then up the HR by 10 Bpm.
The VO2 max test / RER will be very interesting, do you have any results from a previous test when you weren't Keto/Low Carb to compare?
Thanks for the insights!
EM, the acrid smell could well be Acetoacetate, which is a ketone body that is excreted into the urine rather than burned as fuel by the body. You could either get some ketone test strips to use with you BG meter, if you have a dual meter? Or buy some ketostix and do a urine test if you are interested. Urine strips will only tell you if you are producing ketone bodies as the level of production they show is hugely affected by you state of hydration whereas blood testing shows the level of ketone bodies present the blood serum which is not affected by hydration and therefore much more accurate..
I have never had a VO2 max test unfortunately.
I've been cutting down on the carbs. Largely in the form of sugar, and a slight relapse this week aside, have been going well. Running has felt like a bit of a struggle in the morning when doing it fasted (binned off my 2x Weetabix) but I've lost a Kg or two. Had to put a new notch into my belt that I've had for years so can't be bad.
I think its starting to work
now four weeks in and just done my test run route at Maffetone +5 and I am 19 seconds/mile faster for the same HR over same Route from 7 days ago, don't get me wrong I am only running at 9:50min miles 6:14min/Km but the average speed is going in the right direction
and my HR is becoming less spiky!
Also in the last week I have started to feel much more energy and my blood sugar is only spiking to around 8 after meals and sits comfortably around 5 or below at most other times, morning reading is now consistently below 5- I know its early days but it looks like I aint diabetic anymore
or at least this way of life has given me "Normal" glyceamic control
Duda mate - I owe you a debt of gratitude for first of all pointing me at this and then by being willing to chat, offer advice and by setting an excellent example - Its bloody brilliant and I can't stop smiling.
THANK YOU!
Well done EM. It's definitely worth the persistence.
Smiles all round then!
I just had the weirdest thing happen at around mile 7.5 on a Maffetone +5 run and on a slight down hill my HR suddenly dropped from 140 to 120 and then a bit lower, pace went up and I felt great!
Is this the fabled fat engine making an appearance?
my HR is higher than 140 when walking
Maybe you are a "turbo charged hot hatch" to my old Diesel
grrrrrr long post lost!!!
Evening all...
I've decided to try LCHF rather then the traditional carb heavy diets and was wondering how it affects training and race times..I don't have any weight to lose and I have a fairly physically demanding job, (I'm a postie) but have heard of the benefits for long distance runners. I'm on day 1 and already feeling like crap. so hungry and feeling totally drained... what sort of things are suitable for snacks etc...meals will be easier but its the between meal food i have a concern about...
Iain - you can expect to feel rubbish for a few weeks while your body is adapting to the changes, they say 6/8 weeks is the norm. It is recommended to run at about 65% of your maximum heart rate during this period. Running at a higher intensity could lead you to run out of energy during a run i.e. you could bonk. However, once you get through this period of adaptation you will find that you can go out for a long run fasted and won't require any food or nutrition during the run. It is a slow process but when you get there you will feel great. Regarding snacks between meals, you will probably find that you snack less as the more fat that you eat the more satisfied you will feel and therefore more unlikely to snack. I am currently fasting for 18 hours, where I will have my evening meal around 18:00 then won't eat again until about 12:00 the next day. I will even go out for a run before my lunch and most of the time i don't feel hungry.
Wow carterusm, 18 hours between meals. To me that sounds like madness but i guess once you have adapted it is easier.. I'm currently on day 3 and I feel like i have run a marathon everyday this week..I know it is normal an it will pass (I hope). I am enjoying the fact I can eat full fat things with no limit and to be honest, I'm not missing pasta, bread, rice etc. The one thing i am struggling with is that i cant eat fruit. I love apples and bananas but have to swerve the fruit bowl and get some cherry tomatoes instead..I haven't run this week yet but am going to try run tomorrow on my day off and see how i feel...
I've just cut out carbs as well in the last couple of days, or significantly reduced them anyway. This morning I noticed my heart rate was maybe 8 - 10 beats higher than usual for the same pace. Is this a normal - hopefully temporary - side effect, or was my pre-run espresso a little too strong today?
Rafiki, its a will return to mormal over the next few week but it can take up to 3 month.
increase the mount of salt in your diet and try and see if it reduces after a1/4 teaspoon of salt in a glass of water first think in the morning.
so wake up, test RHR , drink water and salt, wait 10 mins( rest quietly) retest RHR if it normal all good, if its still high but reduced take a little more salt. The body handles salt differently with out carbs/insulin present.
Its all explained better earlier on in the tread I think?
Hi Rafiki,
I experienced the same thing and now 5 weeks in RHR is going back down but the change back has been slow, I didn't try the test Duda suggests but I have Himalayan rock salt on everything I eat now!
You might also notice a rapid increase in HR at the start of a run and again this stops being so pronounced after a while.
Good luck, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated!
Took delivery of some Ketostix this morning and it looks like I am defo in Ketosis
48miles on the bike this morning feeling quite good but noticing legs when HR increased, otherwise felt fine fully fasted for whole ride and just a BPCoffee before I set off.
Tested Keto on arrival home and was showing trace, then tested 1hr later after scrambled eggs, bacon and mushrooms and was showing 8mmol/l which is one down from the top reading, also tested my blood sugar at the same time and this was 5.2
I am assuming the rise in Ketone bodies detected could be as a result of stopping exercise and my body dumping the excess? or is it also to do with a meal?
In any event it looks like I am a good way down the road to full adaptation
Iain Love get out for a Low HR shuffle! you may feel like sh*te and also may be embarrassed to be running slower than a sloth on Mogadon's but it will get better
Iain - how did the long run go?
AND where the FECK is everyone!
How are you all getting on - UPDATE's please!
A mixed bag for me at the moment. During the week my diet is generally fine, in fact I've got my carb intake down to about 20/30g per day. Come the weekend I have greater difficulty in resisting temptation when I'm at home on there are 'treats' in the cupboard for the rest of the family. I also have a couple of beers which I try and include in my daily allowance but don't always succeed. That said, I've lost 3/4lbs in the last couple of weeks so I know that if I can commit to it fully the weight should drop of quite quickly. I think I will now wait until the new year before I attempt to go all in and stop the beers. From a running point of view it's not been too bad. I'm up to about 9 hilly miles and haven't bonked too many times. On the flat it is fine but as soon as I hit an incline I'm blowing. Needless to say steep hills are all walked.
Regardless of weight loss and running I do feel a lot better eating this way. I've been experimenting in the kitchen and making some sauces to eat with my meat and veg and this certainly stops me from getting bored. I made a banting loaf last week wasn't too bad but certainly not as tasty as 'normal' bread.
Next year I'm in the Hardmoors 55 in March and the South Downs Way 100 in June so hopefully over the next few months I can get fully fat adapted and my fitness improve
Catersum I am not here for the weight loss but have lost around 2lbs since I began, all off my stomach, nearly got a two pack now
I am about 7 weeks into Low Carb and around 4 weeks into full Keto, I find the same at the moment with HR and Pace/Hills, but I am slowly improving at the bottom end of pace, its the top end that is difficult, however I have seen signs and think that when I get there my top end is going to be considerably faster than before I went Keto
I bought some ketosticks but was quite surprised at how low the readings were. I am not trying to lose weight but I have lost about half a Stone and the spongyness around my belly. But I have only been doing it a few weeks... Another long run planned tomorrow and possibly some cycling on Sunday..
Iain if you are 7:30 pace now and not "feeling it" what ruddy pace did you run before? You is a quick pirate for sure! and probably only going to get quicker!
When were you using the Ketostix? I have found that if I test straight after exercise I only get trace or none detected, however if I try the Ketostix a few hours after exercise the reading is high to very high, which apparently is normal as your body uses the ketone bodies to fuel recovery for a while and only needs to dump the excess after this.
EM - My current marathon pace is 6:49/mile but i am aiming to get it down to around 6:20 for VLM in April.
I tested a few hours after finishing work before a run. I have just tested again and it showed neg which I'm baffled by as I've stuck 100%. I might start keeping a food diary and add values to see exactly what carbs and fat im consuming. The crazy thing is, is that i ate scrambled eggs with butter for breakfast and 2 hrs later i had 4 slices of ham with full fat cheese and nothing since and I'm only starting to get hungry now..
Where do you get your meal and snack ideas. i might need to rethink things
seem to have a double post!!
The meals you described certainly sounds ok! Have you eaten anything that has hidden carbs? sugar and carbs are in bloody everything processed! I am now a proper packet checking anorak!
You maybe using all the Ketone bodies and not having to dump them into your urine?not really an expert myself maybe Duda can point in the right direction.
As for meal ideas I am eating a lot of eggs and vegetables, salad, feta, cheese, Bullet Proof Coffee, vegetable smoothies, citrus fruit, occasional apples, fatty steaks, lamb plus fish and chicken and I snack on almonds/brazils and walnuts etc etc there are some good links further back in the thread for meal ideas too!
The fact that Im permanently on a buzz of energy and really loving this whole process, to me means I'm in ketosis...
Ian, regarding Ketone levels being low. You may want to look at Dairy as a key, I have to keep my intake very moderate especially cream and full fat cheese.For some people the body will treat the lactose as a source of sugar. I had real problems with this when I first started I was eating a lot of double cream and wondering why the hell my ketones levels where varying so much. No after a year although it still drops my ketone levels I don't worry about ot to much as I am pretty well fat adapted.
Duda - I don't consume huge amounts of dairy. I use full fat milk in coffee with cream and half a tub of natural Greek style yogurt and possibly some cheese, everyday. I guess my body is still adapting as I'm only on week 3.
I headed out for a long run this morning. I did 14 miles at about 7:17/mile . During the run I felt great although my quads started hurting at around 10miles. When I got home, my other half wanted to go out so I showered and went out without eating anything, I wasn't perticularly hungry, but I soon started to crash, I felt weak, dizzy and nauseous so I had to have a coffee with 2 sugars in it to try help me recover.
what post run fueling do you use as i don't want to feel like that again...