Are you and "in" or an "out"?

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  • In other news - I was having a chat with a very nice chap from around these parts who works in a very big well known cancer hospital.  His job is research, specifically sourcing funding for research from the EU. 

    He was dismayed that as a result of Brexit, all EU funding for oncology research is being directed away from the UK.  Mostly because research grants are for five years or more.

    This was backed up by another friend (who works in the treasury) who confirmed that grants in all kinds of research fields coming out of the EU have been directed away from the UK and the UK government are highly unlikely to be able to cover that loss.

  • skottyskotty ✭✭✭
    Happychap wrote (see)

     the UK government are highly unlikely to be able to cover that loss.

    Of course they can. They've got an extra 350M a week to play with now.

  • skottyskotty ✭✭✭
    asitis wrote (see)

    Scream. The first thing my daughter said when I mentioned  I was voting out was to call me a racist even though my oldest friend is from Nigeria and I play chess every week with my Romanian neighbour. I don't believe she meant it, It was more of a sudden reaction to what she was picking up from others.  The very same sort like what's on here. Bigotry only breeds more.

     

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JY0gAaZGRnA/TdJ_Js3bwpI/AAAAAAAABOE/hmcFc_7STrY/s1600/blackfriends.jpeg

     

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Well I guess it's tough if you live on grants, funding, freebies, charity, hand-outs.

    The problem with the nature of such income streams is that they are all one way.

    Someone sits at one end playing games and all they have to do is prove once in a while that their particular deal is worth the money.

    Once the paymaster decides they've had enough shelling out, it's game over.

    It takes all forms does research. Some is valid and important. Others less so. There was a case of some scientist being given grants for over 30 years to study and report on urban foxes!

    What! All urban foxes do is screech all night, shit on your lawn, empty your waste bins and kill your cat if they catch it unawares.

  • skottyskotty ✭✭✭

    yes, let's not bother trying to be among world leaders in science and technology. 

    let others do the research and we will read the reports.

     

     

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    No problem with wanting to be a world leader at S & T, just don't get all upset because someone else doesn't want to pay for it.

    I worked in R & D for years in an engineering company. Great! until they tried to develop a cutting edge technology.

    In no time at all, they discovered that particular wheel had already been invented and the company which had, was spending £13,000,000 per year just protecting the patents. Who knows how much they had invested in research.

    It's a question of picking which battle to fight.

    Fact is, R & D / S & T is a loss or an investment. But which?

    Investors get a bit jumpy when throwing money at a possible nil result.

     

     

  • asitis wrote (see)
    VDOT52 wrote (see)
    Anyone who uses 'racialism' when they mean 'racism' is obviously too busy being racist to learn the difference.

    So that's the reasoning. That and vote out.  Another cheer for VD

    Scream. The first thing my daughter said when I mentioned  I was voting out was to call me a racist even though my oldest friend is from Nigeria and I play chess every week with my Romanian neighbour. I don't believe she meant it, It was more of a sudden reaction to what she was picking up from others.  The very same sort like what's on here. Bigotry only breeds more.

    Perhaps you will tell me your reason for voting to leave then.  As I said I am keen to find the non racists, non Islamophobes and non xenophobes and am struggling. if you aren't one of them and are keen to distance yourself from them, surely you won't have any objection to telling me.

  • VDOT52VDOT52 ✭✭✭
    Screams, thanks for defending the new (ish) kidimage
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    I voted 'out' for no damn reason beyond objecting to self anointed clever people saying that anyone who did (vote out) was somehow stupid and deficient in some way.

    I admit I also followed the lead of my immigrant wife who also voted out.

    She didn't like being called stupid etc either.

    Personally speaking, I find being thought of as stupid somewhat amusing.

    Of course, it helps to be able to prove otherwise with results.

     

    ed;

    Clearly missing words isn't part of that.

     

     

     

     

     

     

      

  • JScreamapillar wrote (see)

    asitis wrote (see)
    VDOT52 wrote (see)
    Anyone who uses 'racialism' when they mean 'racism' is obviously too busy being racist to learn the difference.

    So that's the reasoning. That and vote out.  Another cheer for VD

    Scream. The first thing my daughter said when I mentioned  I was voting out was to call me a racist even though my oldest friend is from Nigeria and I play chess every week with my Romanian neighbour. I don't believe she meant it, It was more of a sudden reaction to what she was picking up from others.  The very same sort like what's on here. Bigotry only breeds more.

    Perhaps you will tell me your reason for voting to leave then.  As I said I am keen to find the non racists, non Islamophobes and non xenophobes and am struggling. if you aren't one of them and are keen to distance yourself from them, surely you won't have any objection to telling me.

    Stuck my nose in as I couldn't believe this thread was still going. The decision is made, no point arguing about it. It's over.

    I voted out, I'm not reading back 1000 posts to find out what's been going on here, but the above post seems to suggest that anyone who voted out is a racist. What a load of crap. Again I voted out, my reasons were simple:

    • The European courts should not have power to overrule our domestic laws.
    • We should have control of those who come in and leave the country.
    • I have no interest in further European integration.
    • No persuasive argument to remain was presented.

    The economic arguments on both sides were and are bollox. Figures that were at best guess work and at worst made up.

    I went in to the campaign with an open mind to both sides, was not convinced by remain.

    That all said, I do believe that it should not have been a simple 'most votes win' scenario it should have required a convincing majority 55/45 I would have said. I realise that would have meant we would have lost, but I am glad we won and do not regret it.

  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    Ric, I'd struggle to describe voting out solely on a fit of pique as an indicator of intelligence. Or at least of intelligence taking second place to egotism.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Voting doesn't require anything apart from turning up and making a mark on a piece of paper.

    I could have listed the above as CF has stated as well.

    Too much effort.

     

  • CunningFox,

    What I actually said was that I don't want to believe that so many people in this country are racist, Islamophobic and xenophobic but the majority of comments I have read so far suggest they are. Maybe people like you need to get among them and defend a different position so people like me can be persuaded otherwise, because like it or not they are speaking very loudly on your behalf whether you agree with them or not. 

    I am glad you think you won but sooner or later you may find out that in actual fact we all lost. Are we not all diminished by the rise in hate crime alone, for example?

    BTW I am still waiting for someone somewhere to say something along the lines of " I voted out because the EU policy on xxx directly affects my livelihood" - but no-one has so far.

     

  • JT141 wrote (see)
    Ric, I'd struggle to describe voting out solely on a fit of pique as an indicator of intelligence. Or at least of intelligence taking second place to egotism.

    And there's me thinking that people might have bothered to engage with the issues before voting. Clearly I must be the stupid one...

  • In essence the Remain argument seems to be 'we might have had fewer votes, but our votes were of a higher moral value (more informed, less racist, etc)'.

    Once you head down this route you start to enter very dubious territory.

  • skottyskotty ✭✭✭

    I am only worried that a majority of people managed to vote without really knowing what they were voting for or what will happen.

    Even worse if that Farage and Boris had no plan and no idea what will happen now.

    Other than "leave"

     

     

  • VDOT52VDOT52 ✭✭✭
    How about the fact that the leave campaign was all based on lies and that they duped the majority of the people who voted for them who thought it was about sending foreigners home on about the next day.

    I have no doubt that some people were old punk rebels like Ric and others were nationalists like cunningfox who could offer rather vague but non racist reasoning, but the vast majority just wanted perceived foreigners and tanned folk sent 'ohm' ware day cum from...
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Ric, that's a pretty stupid reason to vote out.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    I was making that up, Westy.

    I voted out for no more reason than I felt like it.

    I gave it no more thought than posting drivel here on the forum.

     

     

     

     

  • RicF wrote (see)

    I was making that up, Westy.

    I voted out for no more reason than I felt like it.

     

    That's hardly a better reason, Ric!

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Saying that...I voted in mainly cause Farage is a total dick.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    I keep forgetting stuff.

    I've remembered some pre brexit spiel suggesting Turkey and Serbia were going to join the EU. That's what I think I read. Probably wrong either way.

    I didn't fancy that, so that was that.

     

     

     

     

  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    Nice to see Farage promoting himself in America under the auspices of Donald Trump. There's no doubt a media niche for him over there. Overblown right wing rhetoric where healthy cynicism has mutated into paranoid conspiracy theories.



    Appears to be some savage cuts coming to NHS infrastructure. It's a political movement of travel that seems inexorable. We've already seen even the most rudimentary elements of the "sugar tax" policy paper binned in favour of an uninhibited food industry, free to market what they want, to who they want and how they want. Social interests look set to take a distant second place to corporate interests, and it's a political outlook that's going to be stuck deep in the bone of the country with such fundamental trade legislation to be worked through. Maybe that is what people want. Fucked if I know anymore.
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Farage adds a bit of intellect to Trump's campaign. image

    It's called populism and we'd better get used to it, it's on the rise everywhere.

  • 15West wrote (see)

    Saying that...I voted in mainly cause Farage is a total dick.

    That's one of the best reasons to vote remain that I've heard.

    I'm yet to actually hear a decent argument to remain.

    What I don't like is the amount of bollox that I hear in the media continually playing on the negative aspects and the steriotyping of out voters. I wish the PM would just push article 50 to stop this crap about ignoring the democratic process coming from some areas.

    We as a country need to stop this stupid arguing, self recriminations and get behind the decision, look at and promote the good sides of it rather than continually talking it down.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Pudge wrote (see)
    RicF wrote (see)

    I was making that up, Westy.

    I voted out for no more reason than I felt like it.

     

    That's hardly a better reason, Ric!


    Ok, in hindsight I could claim reasons but they wouldn't be valid.

    However, I had the confidence to deal with 'change', and dare I say it? profit by it.

     

     

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I'm yet to actually hear a decent argument to remain.

      - single market, trade, shit like that....oh...and peace with our european neighbours instead of war?

    Anyway, as you say...what's done is done. We now have a different future, bit less immigration and no more horrid eu laws or funding...plus we've got rid of the notting hill tories and back in place are the good old school tories, bit more grammar schools, bit less eco bollocks. No opposition to worry about either, until Farage returns to ukip that is....

  •  Once those things that we get from the EU that probably few of us even think about are gone, then everyone will realise "what the EU did for us."

     

     

  • RicF wrote (see)

    I keep forgetting stuff.

    I've remembered some pre brexit spiel suggesting Turkey and Serbia were going to join the EU. That's what I think I read. Probably wrong either way.

    I didn't fancy that, so that was that.

     

     

    They aren't. You were one of the millions that bought the lies. Nearly as bad as voting out for the hell of it.

     

     

  • CunningFox wrote (see)
    15West wrote (see)

    Saying that...I voted in mainly cause Farage is a total dick.

    That's one of the best reasons to vote remain that I've heard.

    I'm yet to actually hear a decent argument to remain.

    What I don't like is the amount of bollox that I hear in the media continually playing on the negative aspects and the steriotyping of out voters. I wish the PM would just push article 50 to stop this crap about ignoring the democratic process coming from some areas.

    We as a country need to stop this stupid arguing, self recriminations and get behind the decision, look at and promote the good sides of it rather than continually talking it down.

    We have no idea whether there are any "good sides" to it, none of your lot had a plan, didn't expect win, got their bluff called and pissed off. Leave was a populist campaign, run deliberately on emotion not facts, orchestrated by the guy who bankrolls UKIP.

    And you put Britan's future in his hands. 

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