P&D Autumn Marathon 2017

Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
Thought it was about time to get this going!
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  • jtcedjtced ✭✭✭
    So, pardon my ignorance, what's P&D?
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    Hi Jt. P&D (Pfitzinger and Douglas) are the authors of a plan that many of us follow when training for marathons. If you google their names you will see the book which is full of lots of useful info and different plans that you can use.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited June 28
    Sure my body wouldn't cope with P&D at the moment but I'll join in over here Tom. I've got Snowdonia marathon in October & whilst I usually wing it on general training the thread might inspire me to greater things.
    Steady 10K today. First time I've run on 2 consecutive days since May 14th!
    No wonder I'm 5kg heavier than I was for VLM.
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    Great stuff Jools-always enjoy hearing about your crazy training/racing! A few more consecutive days and that weight will quickly dissappear.

     I believe several have got Abingdon in their sites on the horizon. Anyone got another marathon booked this Autumn?
  • NorthEnderNorthEnder ✭✭✭
    I'm going to guess that last weekend's marathons/ ultramarathons were the last of the first half of 2017... so time to leave the spring thread behind...  I agree, so glad you did this Tom.  Probably as well to leave Macca's last pot behind... his knowledge of Welsh mountain names is a bit ropey!

    Great report to finish the old thread with AWC.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Shall we start a list

    Abingdon 22nd October

    Reg Wand - DIY Plan  Target time TBA


  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Abingdon 22nd October

    Reg Wand - DIY Plan  Target time TBA
    HA77 - DIY Plan Target Time 2:30
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Cheers for the new thread Tom.

    No sandbagging this time.

    Joe - All's fine at home, thanks for your concern. I potentially needed to make a quick dash home for dad duties so couldn't get out at lunch time. In the end I didn't need to anyway. Impressive day from you yesterday. I really like your idea of a few days off work to smash yourself focus on training. A bit like a week at a training camp.
  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭
    Impressive training yesterday Joe. Looks like all is shaping up nicely for the Ironman.

    HA - Achilles issue seems to have passed, although I felt it a little during last nights over-exuberant dancing at the wedding. Still working on the lower back and feet issues but they are not stopping training.

    Not quite ready to commit to an autumn marathon as yet, will see how the next couple weeks go.
  • Well done Tom.  I probably won't run an autumn marathon but will probably follow a P&D plan.  
    NE - I walked Pen y Fan and Fan y Big a few years ago and might return this autumn, so I don't upset any locals( and at risk of looking like an idiot) which bit was ropey ?
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    Morning all.

    A bit of momentum this morning and the beginnings of a list-excellent!

    Amazing training Joe-Ironman indeed!

    HA-glad everything ok at home. I see from your target time that you are aiming to win Abingdon. That would be awesome!

    Alan-glad the acillies issues have gone. Go on commit to one!

    Macca-Are you not tempted to hold on to your Abo place or has it already gone elsewhere?

    12 miles steady this morning.
  • I was tempted Tom, but I've an ultra that might finish around 6am on the morning of Abo if it all goes well. Sensible head overruled stupid head on that one.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Birmingham 15th October
    SteveMac - P&D/DIY - Target Time TBA

    Abingdon 22nd October
    Reg Wand - DIY Plan  Target time TBA
    HA77 - DIY Plan Target Time 2:30

    Added my one to the list, think after my ultra I have about 9 weeks until Birmingham marathon, so I'll follow one of the P&D multiple marathon plans, something like 2 weeks recovery, 6 weeks training and 1 week taper I think! No target time yet as no idea how I'll recover.

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Morning, and welcome all to the new thread. I've been working my way through what I've missed over the last 2.5 weeks and some great race reports from Macca, NE, and AWC. They have really got me enthused for my summer of trail races. 
    Well done on the tri's Reg and Jools.
    JB, saw your 112 mile cycle on Strava. Not bad for a mid week effort. 
    Have also seen plenty of decent sessions on Strava going on from the rest. Am very interested in Spoons 100 mile a week plan and HA77's 2:30 Abingdon target. 

    Ive got quite a few races coming up and will be following the basic P&D principles but not rigidly following a specific plan. Have also decided not to do Abingdon as don't think I'll be in decent enough shape for a fast road marathon (am away a lot in the month leading up to it with a mates wedding and 2 different eating/ drinking weekends for my 40th. Will do the Great South Run instead as a few club mates are going and making a bit of a weekend of it so no pressure on a result. 

    Heres my calendar 

    29th July - Dorset Invader Marathon 3:20

    13th August -Salisbury 50k 3:59

    16th Sept- Chilton Wonderland 50 miles 8:15

    22nd Oct - Great South Run 1:04 


  • jtcedjtced ✭✭✭
    OK, I get you.  I'm in training for Loch Ness, Sept 24, and Marathon van Gent, Oct 28.  I've been working (somewhat loosely) to the VLM Advanced training plan, and finding it quite easy so far.  

    (1) Is it worth switching to the P&D given only ~12 weeks to go, and
    (2) Is it a better training plan for someone working towards their first marathons?

    ...or should I consider it for Spring 18 only?
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited June 29
    Jtced - There are 12 week plans in the P&D book. What does your current training look like? As long as there's not a big leap in mileage you could move onto the 12 week plan. Best to have a look at it and decide for yourself if it looks achievable. They go from up to 55 miles to over 100 miles a week.

    As mentioned on Strava Joe, impressive days work there.
  • jtcedjtced ✭✭✭
    Off the top of my head, I'm currently a bit ahead on the VLM plan, so a typical week looks like:

    Mon: rest
    Tue: 3-5 miles fairly fast (5-10K pace)
    Wed: 6 miles-ish hilly (moderate)
    Thu: 10 miles at half marathon pace
    Fri: rest
    Sat/Sun: either 10-12/12-15 back-to-back runs OR a single long run on the Sunday (last one was 19 miles on Sunday past).

    I seem to be coping with all of this pretty well, averaging about 40 miles per week currently, though this week will be lower due to minor niggle.

    Does that seem to be a suitable equivalent point to switch over, would you say?
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited June 29
    I reckon you could.

    the normal up to 55 miles plan 12 weeks out, which is part of an 18 week plan looks like this:

    Mon: Rest
    Tues: 10 miles w 5 @ LT (Lactate Threshold pace so typically around 10 mile - HMP pace for most of us)
    Wed: 4 miles recovery
    Thu: 11 miles Medium long run
    Fri: Rest
    Sat 7 miles with strides
    Sun: 18 miles Long run

    If I was switching I would trim a few miles of each session so I'd do 8,4,9,6,16 for example to total 43 miles and build into that way. So you get the principles and quality sessions but without too much increase in mileage. I am pretty prone to injury so I have to be careful.

    The long run, recoveries and MLR are staples of the programme with the LT sessions normally being every couple of weeks alternating with strides. There is also quite a lot of planned marathon pace in the long runs.
  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭
    jtced said:

    Thu: 10 miles at half marathon pace

    Jesus wept!  :o that must be a typo..

    I would treat yourself to a copy of the book and decide yourself if it's for you just now. If not, you can come back to it a few marathons down the line. Even if you don't, it's still a good book for information and advice.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Birmingham 15th October
    SteveMac - P&D/DIY - Target Time TBA

    Abingdon 22nd October
    Reg Wand - DIY Plan  Target time TBA
    HA77 - DIY Plan Target Time 2:30

    Eryri/Snowdonia 28th October
    Jooligan - DIY (P&D guided) Target Time sub 3:30 (aspirational sub 3:15)

    That's me on. I believe SQ will be in N.Wales too
  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Alan, I thought similar. 
    Jtced, may be worth having a good read of the book before diving right in. 

    Your current plan seems to have a lot of hard efforts in it (10 at HMP and 5 at 10k pace) the P&D plans are more volume based where it would be hard to put in those sort of efforts twice a week on tired legs. There is no way I could do those 2 sessions on my own without it wiping me out for days. 
  • jtcedjtced ✭✭✭
    AlanB said:
    jtced said:

    Thu: 10 miles at half marathon pace

    Jesus wept!  :o that must be a typo..

    I would treat yourself to a copy of the book and decide yourself if it's for you just now. If not, you can come back to it a few marathons down the line. Even if you don't, it's still a good book for information and advice.
    To be fair, my HMP isn't particularly quick.  I also seem to recover pretty quickly, which is something.  
  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭
    Obviously everyone is different but I don't think I've ever seen a training programme that recommends doing 10 miles at HMP. I would say if you're able to do 10 miles at HMP in training then you're in better shape than you think and its maybe time to sign up for another half and get that time revised  :)
  • jtcedjtced ✭✭✭
    Maybe so, Alan.  I've yet to do a competitive half, so all my HM paces are based on the time I've taken to cover that distance during training on longer runs (e.g. A 2:05 HM during last Sunday's 19 mile run (which came in at 3:03, so I was definitely struggling by the end).  I guess I'd probably run a 1:50 HM.  Nothing to brag about at all.  

    All that said, I probably do need to slow the training runs down a bit relative to my capability.  When I said 10 miles at HMP, that's what I ended up running, not what was strictly called for in the training plan (ahem, a 45m steady run, my bad!).  I've just checked my logs and on that day it was in fact only 8.5 miles (hilly) and I did that in 1:19 (5m44s/K) - total ascent 240m.  So, somewhere less than my previous claim, and it was on the Wednesday not the Thursday (those days were reversed in my mind).  Just ignore me :wink:
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Birmingham 15th October
    SteveMac - P&D/DIY - Target Time TBA

    Melbourne 15th October
    JohnOz - P&D 12/70 plan - Target time 2:59

    Abingdon 22nd October
    Reg Wand - DIY Plan  Target time TBA
    HA77 - DIY Plan Target Time 2:30

    Eryri/Snowdonia 28th October
    Jooligan - DIY (P&D guided) Target Time sub 3:30 (aspirational sub 3:15)

    Great to see the new thread is up. Another crack at sub 3 for me, just got to hope it comes together on the day. 
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Welcome jtced. Like others have said you should be fine with the 12 week up to 55 mile plan. If it is too much you could always cut back some of the sessions as you're building up. Like Alan suggests I would recommend getting the book and having a read even if you don't want to follow one of the plans this time around. 

    Steve - I think your plan sounds great. If you can recover ok from the ultra, 6 weeks of sharpening with a big endurance base should have you in good shape.

    Millsy - That's a busy enough schedule. Looks great.

    Tom - I really don't think I'll be able to run 2:30 unless everything goes perfectly in training and on the day. I mainly want to give it a go as a learning experience with the main goal getting into 2:30 shape for London next year. I might change the target depending on how I go at the Windsor Half a month or so before.

    I'd organised to do some 150m sprints with the work running group today but seeing as I missed my hill+tempo session yesterday I did an almost 6 mile LT type run before. Managed a touch under 5:30/mile for the tempo part, so not too bad. Then a few fast sprints, focussing on form was good way to finish off. 


  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    John - Hopefully October in Melbourne will offer better conditions than in Boston. Really good chance of getting sub 3 this time I reckon. 
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    edited June 29

    Birmingham 15th October
    SteveMac - P&D/DIY - Target Time TBA

    Melbourne 15th October
    JohnOz - P&D 12/70 plan - Target time 2:59

    Abingdon 22nd October

    Reg Wand - DIY Plan  Target time TBA
    HA77 - DIY Plan Target Time 2:30                                                                 

    Tom-P&D/DIY 12/70 plan-Target time TBA

    Eryri/Snowdonia 28th October
    Jooligan - DIY (P&D guided) Target Time sub 3:30 (aspirational sub 3:15)


    The 55 mile 12 week plan should be fine for you jtced. Have a look at the book and see what you think. 10 miles at HMP- that sounds like my sort of session and not one from a sensible training plan!

    Very interesting and busy looking schedule there Millsy!

    Cracking pace on that tempo HA. Really hope you are in good enough shape on the day to go sub 2:30 and/or win. No reason why not to think that way at the moment.

    John-I think the Sub 3 is a certainty if you get suitable conditions.

  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭
    HA77 said:

    No sandbagging this time.

    HA77 said:

    Tom - I really don't think I'll be able to run 2:30 


     Hmmmmm...  ;)
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭

     Yes Alan........Was thinking the same.

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