P&D Autumn Marathon 2017

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  • PJFrizzlePJFrizzle ✭✭✭
    Hey Millsy - a 1:22 was the recent PB, ironically it felt like a bad run, I went out too fast and struggled on the last 6 miles a bit, but overall it a decent run albeit a bit out if control.

    one question on P&D.... what's the view on the gains from going to higher mileage vs beasting the quality sessions? The book doesn't really prescribe which plan to join so life and reality means that I'll probably max out at 60 miles per week given other life commitments, but on the flip side as I say... I'd never make compromises on the quality.
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Morning all. PJF- I'm not a high mileage runner compared to others on here and never do more than 70 miles a week during a campaign. I think quality over quantity is important and following the plan you have chosen should give you a great shot at that sub 3 based on your HM time.
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    9 miles with strides in the rain this morning. Lovely!
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    PJFrizzle -  Like you say, most of us choose a mileage based on what can fit into our lives. I'll generally only have time to do about 50-65 miles per week. I think you want to maintain the quality in your sessions so if you can't it might be worthwhile giving yourself more recovery. Having said that I think the idea is to do the sessions in a somewhat fatigued state. It's a balancing act I guess. The other thing to remember is that the LRs, MLRs and GAs aren't meant to be at a slow recovery pace, which makes the mileage a fair bit harder than if you were just plodding out the miles. 

    Sunny here this morning Tom. That's what you get for living in Wales. 9ish miles with strides planned here too.
  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭
    Welcome PJF, a 1:22 half is a great base to be starting your sub 3 campaign from. If you follow the 55 - 70 mpw programme consistently then sub 3 is definitely yours for the taking. There will be others on here doing the same for sure so you'll have some company. I did Frankfurt last year, it's a fast flat course so great opportunity for a PB.

    Nice training Tom and HA and impressive double session at the weekend SteveMac.

    10 miles easy for me yesterday. Planning a steady grass run tonight but will see how the legs are coping with the increase in mileage and just take it easy again if I have to.
  • A great week of training there JB - admiration and envy from here. Good luck with taper.

    Some good stuff from the usual suspects, returning suspects and welcome PJF.  

    PJF - some of us have had good results form the 55-70, dropping a recovery run if 6 days per week is a squeeze. 

    I'll slip in a couple of ultras if I may, 5th August NDW 100 and 21st Oct Autumn 100.  There might be another somewhere, just need to check dates:)

    I'm missing the structure of P&D so might follow a plan even without an Autumn mara which will hopefully leave me in a good place for the spring.

  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Just the couple of hundred milers for macca there to add to the list :D

    Real easy 4 miles recovery for me today.
  • Nice to see you back JCG, sorry about your sad news.

    Great work on the “training camp” Joe. Hope all that hard work pays off for you.

    Solid long runs Tom and Millsy.

    Nice long ride Reg, and as Jooligan says impressive average speed.

    Sounds like you’re getting back in to things Jooligan.

    Nice week of mileage Alan.

    Big weekend SteveMac, great work.

    Welcome PJFrizzle. I’d say with a 1:22 HM to your name, sub-3 is there for the taking if you execute the P&D plan well. I ran 2:57 in April off a 1:23 HM using P&D. Frankfurt is a great course, lovely and flat! Just watch out for the first few miles which are around lots of high-rise buildings, which can throw the GPS off.

    Nice quiet summer you have planned there Macca ;)

    I only ran 10 miles in the end last week, which must be my lowest week (except post-marathon) in two or three years! Thankfully I have already matched that this week, although I’m taking it easy ahead of Cardiff to sadly had to decline a track session with SQ this morning. I had a decent weekend on the bike though. 30 miles on Saturday and 55 miles on Sunday, both with some lumps and bumps to test the legs. Also had my first puncture - remarkably when commuting in London I never once picked one up.

  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Here you go macca

    North Downs Way 5th August

    Maccatheknacca

    Oxford Half 8th October

    RunSpoonRun - P&L 100 mi HM plan - Target Time 79:59

    Birmingham 15th October
    SteveMac - P&D/DIY - Target Time TBA

    Amsterdam 15th October

    Joe Bloggs-BR - DIY - Target Time 2:39


    Melbourne 15th October
    JohnOz - P&D 12/70 plan - Target time 2:59

    Autumn 100 21st October

    Maccatheknacca


    Abingdon 22nd October
    Reg Wand - DIY Plan  Target time TBA

    HA77 - DIY Plan Target Time 2:30

    Tom-P&D/DIY 12/70 plan-Target time TBA

    AWC – P&D 12/55 – Target Time 3:29:59

    Coops - P&D gently gently version - Target time TBA 

    Eryri/Snowdonia 28th October

    Jooligan - DIY (P&D guided) Target Time sub 3:30 (aspirational sub 3:15)

    Frankfurt 29th October

    PJFrizzle - P&D up to 70mpw - TT 2:59:59 (A) 3:05 (B)

    Valencia 19th November

    Joe Bloggs-BR - DIY - Target Time 2:39

    Abingdon 22nd October
    Reg Wand - DIY Plan  Target time TBA

    HA77 - DIY Plan Target Time 2:30

    Tom-P&D/DIY 12/70 plan-Target time TBA

    AWC – P&D 12/55 – Target Time 3:29:59

    Coops - P&D gently gently version - Target time TBA 

    Eryri/Snowdonia 28th October

    Jooligan - DIY (P&D guided) Target Time sub 3:30 (aspirational sub 3:15)

    Frankfurt 29th October

    PJFrizzle - P&D up to 70mpw - TT 2:59:59 (A) 3:05 (B)

    Valencia 19th November

    Joe Bloggs-BR - DIY - Target Time 2:39


    Hi PJF - sub3 should be well within your sights, I found the MLRs had the biggest benefit for me (although I'm still looking for sub 3 myself!) The MP LRs though gave me the most confidence as it's a really good workout. 

    Incredible training Joe, I can't imagine spending almost a whole working week on a swim, bike or run but that's effectively what you've just done! 

    I'm trying to get some speed sessions in before kicking off P&D. Got a local parkrun course PB last week and mona fartlek PB today so it seems to be working. Also spent the weekend following people at the Gold Coast marathon and there were some really fast times in ideal conditions, made me wish I was running it. The legend that is Yuki Kawauchi ran it and now has a record 23 sub 2:12 marathons to his name, can't wait to see him run the world champs in a few weeks. 

  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017

     I see you are taking it easy with no Autumn marathon then Macca..

    Sounds like the speed sessions are paying off John with PBs for Parkrun and that session with a funny name!

    What have you got coming up in Cardiff Spoons?

  • Welcome PJF - I'm sure you'll fit in here and a sub-3 target definitely seems reachable based on your previous performances.

    Macca - just the two 100 milers then. Thought you'd be doing something challenging?

    Spoons - nice riding, and commiserations on your first puncture. I trust you knew how to handle it though and were back on the road in no time. When is Cardiff, this weekend?

    John - great work with the speed stuff, seems to be reaping the rewards. 

    I had a complete day off yesterday, it was terribly boring. Went out for a really easy 90 minutes on the bike this morning (proper recovery - my average heart rate was 90bpm) and will probably do a short recovery run this evening. 
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Blimey JB a day off! 90bpm is barely moving is it?
    VLM GFA is frustrating me. Still no email so I phone up today & after listening to all the pre-recorded nonsense & being on hold for 10 minutes a guy comes on & tells me it's all OK & the email's been sent. I point out that I haven't received it so he resends it. I get it. So far so good. I get home & I try to enter by clicking on the link but it tells me I need to be pre-qualified & to contact the event organiser! Grr. It's now too late to phone again til tomorrow when I'll have to find a spare 15-20 minutes at work in case they keep me hanging on again.
  • PJFrizzlePJFrizzle ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the welcome everyone and tips already. Rest day yesterday and a hilly 11 today, avg HR within the range, all good.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Joe, that is ambling, reminds me of a ride I did with my wife with an average HR of 85 which is only about 20 beats higher than it is typing this post. A well deserved rest day.

    Sounds annoying Jools but I am sure you'll get it sorted.

    9 miles for me last night, popped out for an evening jog and just kept going, nothing broke. My HR seemed pretty low for the pace so I am happy enough at the moment plodding out easy runs. I do have this marathon on Sunday though, still haven't decided whether to switch to the HM.

    I've nailed my colours to the mast for my autumn marathon.

    North Downs Way 5th August

    Maccatheknacca

    Oxford Half 8th October

    RunSpoonRun - P&L 100 mi HM plan - Target Time 79:59

    Birmingham 15th October
    SteveMac - P&D/DIY - Target Time TBA

    Amsterdam 15th October

    Joe Bloggs-BR - DIY - Target Time 2:39


    Melbourne 15th October
    JohnOz - P&D 12/70 plan - Target time 2:59

    Abingdon 22nd October
    Reg Wand - DIY Plan  Target time 2:43

    HA77 - DIY Plan Target Time 2:30

    Tom-P&D/DIY 12/70 plan-Target time TBA

    AWC – P&D 12/55 – Target Time 3:29:59

    Coops - P&D gently gently version - Target time TBA 


    Autumn 100 21st October

    Maccatheknacca


    Eryri/Snowdonia 28th October

    Jooligan - DIY (P&D guided) Target Time sub 3:30 (aspirational sub 3:15)


    Frankfurt 29th October

    PJFrizzle - P&D up to 70mpw - TT 2:59:59 (A) 3:05 (B)

    Valencia 19th November

    Joe Bloggs-BR - DIY - Target Time 2:39





  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    VLM update - I'm in  :) this time it was my mistake. Apparently I'd given them the wrong DoB when I applied!
    Legs are battered today after 7M of hilly trails yesterday but still planning to get out for a steady 5M at lunch
  • Thanks for updating the list John/Reg.

    Good news Jooligan.  For such a large marathon I don't hear of many, if at all, c**k ups on their part.
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    Morning all.

    Glad you have finally got the VLM spot sorted Jools.

    Love the target Reg-should be achievable if you stay fit. Sounds like a decent run last night. Wouldn't surprise me if you went the full distance on Sunday. ..;-)

    I was out the door very early this morning to get my 14 miles in. Ticked  along nicely @ 6:25 m/m as the sun was coming up-most enjoyable! :-)
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Good to hear you're in Jooligan. 

    Machine Tom.

    Promising signs Reg. Good to see you're aiming for solidly sub 2:45. Doing a full marathon this weekend sounds a bit crazy but I think you've got a good chance of getting through it pretty well, which would be a big boost.

    John - I'd love to run the Gold Coast marathon if I was back in Brisbane. I've run the HM there 5 or 6 times and set my PB there ages ago. One of my main memories is running with some Japanese ladies who were a good 2 foot shorter than me, ticking along at about 72 min pace before they left me for dust near the end. Are you over here to see the world champs or are you just talking about seeing it on TV?

    Session of 8x 400 with 200 float done at lunch. Will see about getting out this evening for my first double session day of the campaign. 
  • Tom13Tom13 ✭✭✭
    I was wondering when the first big Wednesday double would be HA. Today's the day! Bit hot for a session at lunchtime? Suppose it's not that hot for Aussies......
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Out for my first run today since my ultra. Just a 4 mile easy run which didn't really feel easy! I've been feeling really tired and sleeping loads so I guess my body is still recovering slowly so not going to hit things too hard just yet.

    Really looking forward to getting into marathon training though and it will be interesting doing a 12 week P&D schedule this time. The last couple of times I've probably been at my fittest 12/13 weeks into the plan and then there has been injury/illness so maybe a 12 week plan will work nicely this time.

    Abingdon is looking like the popular race to be at - great target set there Reg. I hope you stay injury free so you can nail it.

    Macca: can't believe you have another 2x100 milers coming up. That really is insane and your body must be bullet proof to put it through that time and again. If anything my ultra has made me feel that a 100 miler is less attainable than before
  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    PJF, with that 1.22 half you are definitely capable of sub3. My half PB is 1:23:53 and I've dipped under 3hrs 6 times so far. 

    Nice to to see you have a rest day Joe! 

    Although I'm not religiously following P&D I got a hot 14 miler in tonight as my MLR. 
  • NorthEnderNorthEnder ✭✭✭
    I'll add my ultra in, if that's allowed... given that I'm a bit more distant from P&D than normal.   Hoping to do a 'proper' marathon in October but will decide nearer the time.


    Pen Llyn Ultra 29th July
    Northender - P&D/DIY - Target Time 22hr.

    North Downs Way 5th August

    Maccatheknacca

    Oxford Half 8th October

    RunSpoonRun - P&L 100 mi HM plan - Target Time 79:59

    Birmingham 15th October
    SteveMac - P&D/DIY - Target Time TBA

    Amsterdam 15th October

    Joe Bloggs-BR - DIY - Target Time 2:39


    Melbourne 15th October
    JohnOz - P&D 12/70 plan - Target time 2:59

    Abingdon 22nd October
    Reg Wand - DIY Plan  Target time 2:43

    HA77 - DIY Plan Target Time 2:30

    Tom-P&D/DIY 12/70 plan-Target time TBA

    AWC – P&D 12/55 – Target Time 3:29:59

    Coops - P&D gently gently version - Target time TBA 


    Autumn 100 21st October

    Maccatheknacca


    Eryri/Snowdonia 28th October

    Jooligan - DIY (P&D guided) Target Time sub 3:30 (aspirational sub 3:15)


    Frankfurt 29th October

    PJFrizzle - P&D up to 70mpw - TT 2:59:59 (A) 3:05 (B)

    Valencia 19th November

    Joe Bloggs-BR - DIY - Target Time 2:39

  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Nice target Reg, do you also have one for this weekend's marathon?

    HA77 - I'm sure you would get a sub 2:30 on the Gold Coast course, everyone I know who ran 10k/HM/FM this weekend got a PB. Always the best quality field of any Australian marathon and they even stream live it if you need a fix of home!

    NE - what's the distance and elevation for your ultra?

    12 miles early today with 5k around MP. Still a couple of weeks off starting P&D but I might run a HM next weekend to see where I am at. Should I go flat out or aim for MP for a quicker recovery?
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    NE, Ultras are definitely allowed on the list!

    John - I'd do it flat out myself, nice to get a race in before the discipline of the plan kicks in.

    PJF - I'd be very surprised if you couldn't convert that HM time to a comfortable sub 3 with a good build up.

    HA - Are you tempted to put any short races in before Abingdon, 5k/10k?

    John - I don't have a target for the Wales Marathon, it's pretty hilly and I will have 112 miles of time trialling in the legs. If I do it, I suspect I will run the first half very slow and treat it like a HM with a warm up!
    3:30-3:40 will do.

    I have a short run planned at lunch then the club 10 mile TT champs this evening, then on to a weekend of pain in Pembrokeshire. It's funny, normally you're tapering, carbo loading and obsessing over every detail but not this time, I've barely thought about it and I am going out to smash my legs in a time trial, twice, in the three days before!
  • PJFrizzlePJFrizzle ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Reg - unaurthodox prep for th marathon there with the multi TT, but why not?!

    John - I guess you need to be ready for the 12 /70 P&D so I'd be tempted to run the HM at MP and test where you are at then see what tweaks you might need to make to the 12 week schedule.

    Tom - a casual 14 miler at 6:25mm I'm jealous!

    Jooligan - well in for the VLM.

    Last night was a nice 13miler commute home - all good, the sting in  tail was that as a result I left my car in the city centre and had to run in this morning and the legs weren't up for a 7mile recovery this morning, so turned back after a mile to swap out the shoes for the bike, only to remember that the bike was broken last week by my son, so had to jump on his 'semi kid size' bike instead! Now I'm not a tall man but his bike is definitely on the small side... up shot was a 10 mile recovery bike ride on a bike that was small enough to fit in my mini! 
  • You manage the double day in the end HA? Ramping things up nicely.

    Reg - good luck tonight, having seen your bike ability I guess you'll be right up at the pointy end? Very jealous of you being @ LCW - should be great fun, just be careful during that marathon! Would love some pointers on the bike course once you're done. 

    PJF - sounds like great fun. I sometimes borrow Katie's tiny pink mountain bike when mine is out of action to get around - I look like a right plonker. Like most days actually, come to think of it. 

    I had the 3rd and final race of the Wimbledon trail series last nice. For once I was sensible and decided not to go all guns blazing with an eye on this weekend and the Outlaw in just over 2 weeks - didn't want to be stacking it on the trails and ruin all the training I'd put in up to this point. Legs felt surprisingly fresh given last weeks antics though. 

    The last race was 8 miles with the previous 2 having been 5, so I set out more conservatively and it was a hot evening anyway so that was probably a wise move. Enjoyed it immensely, was constantly passing people, especially on the 2nd lap as I upped the effort levels. Ran my way up into 8th, which was a good result, but unfortunately slipped from 3rd to 5th in the overall series standings. 

    I've got the Norwich triathlon on Sunday which is an olympic distance race - using it as my final tune up before the Outlaw. I came 9th last year so hoping to try and improve on that if possible. 
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Nice dodgy bike riding PJF. I also like the idea of Joe cycling about town on a small pink girls bike like some kind of drug dealing scum bag.

    I reckon you'll be around the podium for this triathlon Joe, you're a fair bit better than last year. Re the TT, I think I was 3rd last time. It's hard to compete with a pure cyclist with disk wheel, skin suit, booties, sperm hat and a much more aggressive bike set up. 

    Good effort in the trail series and nice to see some caution, it's cotton wool time for you.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Joe - I did get in my second session yesterday. Hill loops on my local trails. Both sessions of the day were pretty short but hard. Legs were definitely weary afterwards. Went out for an easy 9 miles today and struggled to hold 8m/m at the start. Fortunately I warmed up and was down to about 7m/m for the last bit.

    Got to agree with Reg about looking for a podium stop on the weekend.

    Liked you latest blog by the way. I agreed very much that getting sessions done when you're tired or conditions aren't great really helps you mentally come race day.

    PJF - Wasn't there an ad on telly recently where a bloke had to ride his daughter's bike? 13 miles is a solid commute. Good stuff.

    Reg - I'm interested to know how fast I could run a 5 or 10k but I really don't like racing those distances unless it's xc or similar so I can't see that I'll bother. I'd rather run another half. Good luck tonight. Like Joe, I'm expecting great things. 

    John - I'd race the half all out. Nothing to lose as far as I can see.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Solid double there HA, things seem to be building. It's interesting that you don't enjoy 5k/10k. I guess it's that extra burn?

    The other problem with taking on pure cyclists is that they probably didn't do a lunch time run in sweltering heat.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Reg - You're right about not liking that extra burn. Makes me sound like a bit of a pussy.
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