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P&D Spring Marathon 2019
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TR yes certainly agree with cold winter mornings then a hot spring marathon. I think that’s one reason I have always gone relatively well in the autumn. I won’t taper for Chichester 10k at all, although I think it is a relatively light week in the P&D schedule. I will two standard 2 – 3M warm up, race, then about an hour cool down to give the planned 16 for the day. Wokingham taper will be a SQ-special: Monday recovery, Tuesday 6M with x 90s HMP efforts, Wednesday 5M with 5 x 90s, Thursday 4M with 4 x 90s, Friday off, Saturday easy 3 – 4M.
Reg can’t quite work out if that a wank or poo gag. Both work, to be fair. Well done on the tempo. I can never get anywhere HMP unless I am in flats on the track and it’s not windy.
Nice MLR Jooligan. 25 beats/mile seems a lot lower which is good? I don’t really know this data but will have a look on Fetch at some of mine.
Sub 6m/m over hills is pretty sharp, HA. Trust the process, you’ll get there.
Too tired this morning after a broken night. Yesterday's long run and weights in the afternoon meant it probably wise to not rush up. Will try to squeeze in some recovery this afternoon if possible.
HA - thanks. I was kind of assuming itd be better to run a longish section post 10k on tired legs. I guess it depends upon what time i can get to the race, parked up and running by.
SQ - thanks for the taper advice, so a real cut back. I could do that the week after chichester and then target Worthing 1/2.
10 today, 5 av 8 28, 5 av 6.45.
AWC - by the end of the week Jools will have me in the Olympic qualification time!
Not sure if to run today or a day off as heel was uncomfortable this morning. always tricky deciding when to run and when to back off.
TR have you don't the Worthing half before? I have not as I do the Brighton half and its around the same time. Not sure about Chichester yet either.
HA, it's nice sometimes just to pick it up a bit when you feel good, nice run.
If you don't go for the world record at Brighton FBT you'll be sandbagging
Hope the knee isn’t serious George.
Regarding overdressing TR, SQ and I were discussing the benefit of hot baths/saunas for heat acclimatisation - several studies have shown them to be pretty effective (latest one here: https://www.outsideonline.com/2379891/post-workout-hot-tub-soak-might-boost-performance). It’s definitely something I’ll be trying out in April.
6:09 for a solo 38 minute run is pretty decent Reg. As Muddy says will no doubt have great training effect.
Always good to see progress like that on the heart rate Jools.
Sub-6 over hills sounds pretty decent to me HA.
Sensible SQ.
After phoning just about every physio in Worcester yesterday I managed to get a late appointment for last night. Happily the physio didn’t think it was anything serious, most likely muscle weaknesses further up the leg forcing the ankle to do more work. He showed me how to massage the ankle to loosen it up, and gave me exercises to help strengthen the legs (crab walks, monster walks, hip bridges and active planks). I’m ok to continue running, just obviously not if any pain returns.
Currently debating whether to try a run this afternoon or just have a full rest day. It feels fine so my heart says go for it, but my head says one 5 mile run means nothing in the grand scheme of things, and it's better to be cautious.
Fingers crossed for the ankle. I do a good selection of those sorts of exercises. Bit surprised that they were as vague as saying "most likely some weakness higher up". I could have told you that for pennies
ps. Hot baths less good if you want to start a family. But I'm past all that now !
Spoons - I would say a full days rest, you wont loose fitness but may cause more injury. What the hell, put me down for sub 2hr for brighton!
Most of my niggles seem to be caused by weak glutes (Its a pain in the arse LOL)
Just completed my first LT run of the spring campaign and it went pretty badly , but my LT miles were over hilly ground and where I lost pace going up hills I never caught up going down the hills so my pace was all over the place. but my heart rate was in the red heart attack zone (175-180 bpm) , so not all bad!
AWC - so if I loose lots of weight, buy vapour fly 4%, train like rocky and sort the pain in the arse, then sub 3 erm ok . Simples!
FBT - early days re the LT run, you will adapt. Yes, did worthing last yr, its pancake flat and the logistics worked well for me. Half of it is round closed roads behind the seafront which wasnt the greatest route but its then 3m out and 3m back again along the seafront, but the wind was howling !!
I had a great 12 miler yesterday despite the rain in the first half. The legs felt strong for once and running 7:10s in the second half felt good.
Just a recovery 5 today in glorious winter sunshine.
Hope the ankle isn’t anything too serious.
Good training everyone else.
Had a good few days alongside settling into the new job. Decent 15 miles on Wednesday (7:10mm), with another 5 in the evening with a view to not being able to run long this weekend.
Then some more easy miles yesterday (7) and this morning (6), with a hard bike session last night.
Off to Stow in the Cotswolds this weekend for a nice little break - Christmas present for Katie. Taking the bikes but it might be a bit too cold..
Good MLRs from Ramjet, Reg and SQ.
FBT -good LT. I think those hilly tempos are some of the best sessions, even if you can't tell if you're running a good pace.
Spoon - hope the calf/achilles continues to improve.
Man-makers, saunas, hot baths - I suppose they might help but none of them really sound much fun to me. Then again, doing a 20 mile run in the dark before work probably doesn't sound like much fun to about 100% of the population, but I really enjoyed it this morning, cold and crisp but dry and already noticing more light than a month ago. Legs felt a bit tired but pretty well recovered from the Wednesday double. Averaged just under 7/mile and was ticking along about 6:40 for much of the time without too much effort.
Trail run sounds nice, AWC. I love it too, but do weirdly quite enjoy early morning pavements. I guess removing any hassle so early can help. Manmakers look good. You’ll know about the split squats the day after!
Nice work on the progression run, TR. Whilst marathon training I tend not to cut back miles in the week after a race, but do reduce any intensity.
Haha Reg, no need to apologise. The forum needs a bit of edge. Nice 15M. I had a similar sort of run this morning.
Hope the exercises help, spoons. Certainly all of those things are a daily, albeit short, part of my repertoire. I can feel it almost immediately if I miss a day or two but continue the running. I do kind of know what muddy means. Every physio, quite rightly, says to strengthen the glutes.
Enjoy the Cotswolds, Joe. Hope the caffeine come down isn’t too severe.
Blimey, HA, 20M ticking along at 6:40s bodes well. Think it probably backs up the theory of your vO2 suffering but not overall conditioning.
Recovery 6M yesterday afternoon, 8:20s, in glorious sunshine. Then 12M MLR this morning very much in the dark. Freezing temperatures, but felt comfortable. Took a good while to get going, and felt very similar to a run that Reg described on Strava: recovery pace for first third then legs woke up a little. I suspect the temperatures and, more significantly, the early start had an impact. Woke up at 5, out the door 6 minutes later. So I think for the first mile I was genuinely still half asleep. I guess I come round a bit more when driving to work beforehand.
So… the marketing and hype finally got to me. I have bought some Nike Vaporfly 4% Flyknits. I think they are the newest version so will probably have a slightly different upper. 200% more than I have ever paid for trainers, but I have been overwhelmed by the reviews from people I actually trust – those on this thread and some I follow on strava. Going to treat them carefully (assuming they are right for me) and save them for special occasions only. Will probably do one training tempo, then Wokingham, then London in them – in order to ensure they are ok over distance but without wearing them out.
Great to be ticking along without too much effort HA.
Great bed to door speed SQ, if you slept in the VFs you might shave a few more secs off !
Spotted some good MLRs TR, Ram, Reg, Joe and Jools. LT’s in the bag FBT and nice trail run AWC.
Jools - hope you don’t get stoned (if it’s an inaugural)😁
Spoons - best wishes with the ankle.
Thanks for the votes of confidence folks, I think I need a decent marker before sharing the confidence but it does feel like a few switches have been flicked. training through the ultra with a 5m LT (6:05ave) and a decent 15m mlr yesterday has left me feeling completely knackered, what a surprise, so I’m looking forward to a couple of easy days.
Joe-enjoy the weekend
SQ-The 4% flyknits look amazing and I will probably have to swallow the cost one day. There is just too much evidence to suggest the effect is just a placebo
Jools-Did you go straight from the TM to parent's evening? Quite a sight for everyone!
Did my own 9 miler in Battersea Park last night with 6 at LT. Felt really good. I have to say, Battersea Park is a bit of a who's who of marathoning at times. Loads of sub 2.30 guys speeding round yesterday. Easy 6 miles today before planned 20 miler on Sunday
George / SQ Sooo tempted with vapour flys...... but probably more to be gained myself with loosing a few lbs and training harder currently and then will see.
Jools - towards the end of the LT run the arch in foot was starting to niggle slightly and this morning heal is slight discomfort but manageable at present so a day or 2 off and hopefully its getting better.
Does anyone use Heart rate for training here, its not something I have done before and find it interesting but cant find much useful stuff on the internet - just lots of noddy stuff.
George - yes, I follow Paul Martelletti on Strava and he seems to team up with a few round Battersea Park. I certainly enjoyed it the one time I ran there.
FBT yes I use HR. Despite most people saying the opposite, my Apple Watch 4 has given me brilliantly accurate (I believe) HR data compared to my garmin and strap. I mostly observe it after the event to look for trends, but do use it to slow me down when necessary on recovery runs, and to have an idea of marathon pace effort in training. Don't be ruled by it, but certainly a potentially very useful metric.
Yes Muddy we went through lots of functional tests to see exactly where the issue was and what was causing it. “Weakness higher up” was my executive summary!
Wise advice FBT and I took it. LT on hills is always hard to judge, but I genuinely believe that as long as you’re working hard pace doesn’t matter too much (I mainly believe this because my LT pace is usually rubbish
). Glad the PF seems under control for you.
TR before Manchester last year I did some treadmill runs then straight in to the gym sauna. Longest I managed was about 15-20 minutes though, it's mind-numblingly boring especially after a treadmill run! Plus the incentive wasn’t there as the forecast for Manchester was good (and thankfully, correct). I love Worthing HM, always managed a PB there, even last year with the crazy wind. The weather is the only potential bad thing about that race, I love how flat the course is.
I take it the calf is ok now Reg?
Nice work on the MLR Ramjet, long runs like that where you feel strong and tick along.
Enjoy Stow Joe, lovely area of the country.
Great long run HA.
Welcome to the dark side SQ, interested to hear how you get on with the VF. Wise to save them for special occasions. I only got 275 miles out of my first pair, and by the end they had noticeably lost their stiffness compared to a brand new pair when you flexed them. Can’t believe how quickly you were out the door for a run - I take longer to just get out of bed!
Funny how little tricks like that can help with the tedium of the treadmill Jools.
Not surprised you feel tired Macca, genuinely don’t know how you knocked out 5@LT and a 15 mile MLR so soon after the ultra. And as you know, I’m not exactly averse to running a lot of miles!? You’re in great shape so don’t overcook things.
Battersea Park is great for running George, pancake flat! I really miss having access to the regular 5K and 10K races held there on Saturday mornings. Victoria Park is also good for runner-spotting, I used to quite often see Paul Martelleti flying around there.
I use HR similarly to SQ, to keep effort in check for easy runs and for marathon effort stuff. I find these days I can guess what HR I’m at within a few beats usually just by how the effort feels. Just watch out about your max HR - the 220-age formula is utter nonsense and inaccurate for the vast majority of people. Unfortunately the only way to get an accurate value is by doing some kind of max HR test, which usually involves rather unpleasant hard efforts!
I decided to be cautious and rest yesterday. This morning I headed out, and touch wood the achilles felt completely fine. I just did 5 miles, was temped to go further but no point rushing back in especially with a race on Sunday (hopefully). Pace and HR was terrible, but I can’t have lost much fitness from one missed day, so probably mental owing to worrying every step whether I was feeling anything in the achilles. I’ll run another tester tomorrow, perhaps with some strides to see how it is at faster pace, and then hopefully I can give the Linda Franks 5 a good go Sunday. I’m certainly tapered for it now!
HA - well done on the early 20, it was really cold today.
SQ - nice one on the non taper mlr. I havnt run in Nike shoes before, how did you know what size ? Ive read good thing's, i should have got some 5 years ago when i was running well (for me). I don't even use race shoes as im 12stone.
Macca - big week there, no wonder you are tired.
Spoons - your injury issue is hopefully behind you. That sauna work you did sounds ideal, still worth doing for an eventual cool day, still gains to be had. Hopefully Worthing is nice and still this time.
Really cold easy 6m recovery today, shame it coincided with minus a few degrees, could have done with generating some heat.
wel done to AWC and Macca on their C 2 C exploits. Looks like all 3 of us will be lining up for the SDW 100 in June (if I skim read correctly)
ive just been concentrating on getting some consistent training in. No massive weeks but 12 weeks of reasonably decent miles are now in the bank. Seem to have had a few more colds this winter than before. Had a good run at the Stubbington 10k last weekend with a 37.50. A bit off a PB but not a million miles away. One last longish run on Saturday before tapering for the Arc 50 on Feb 2nd. Will start my VLM training after that.
we have our club awards night on Saturday and the guest speaker is Chris Thompson. He’s coming out on the Sunday to join us on a group run. Hopefully I’ll not be too hungover.
good luck to all racing this weekend. I’ll try to keep up with the thread as taper madness sets in next week.
”One of the most comprehensive and trusted resources for marathoners, Advanced Marathoning is undergoing its second revision since its original 2001 publication. Coauthors Pete Pfitzinger, twice the top American in the Olympic marathon, and Scott Douglas, author of several popular running books, offer a number of changes that reflect the latest scientific research and best practices for runners. Among them are a new chapter for masters marathoners; major revisions to the nutrition and supplementary/non-running training chapters; the latest on the psychological side of marathoning; advice for using GPS data and other technological advances; and further guidance on adjusting training as necessitated by illness, injury, and other life demands. (July publication)”
TR I haven't received them yet (due today). Next day shipping seems fair enough when they cost that much! I asked spoons' advice on sizing as I know he, like me, has run in Adios a lot so could make a useful comparison. Hope they fit as they have already sold out of the next size up.
Hi Millsy. Good to hear things are going well. I love how you ultra types 'start training' for VLM after a 40-50M race! Best of luck and look forward to hearing about your exploits.
Guys, I can't keep up with the pace that is your posting pace as well as your running pace
Love the way Joe picked his new job based on the ideal commuting distance
Great half Marathons Muddy and madbee. Nice to see you're back running strongly, madbee and good to have another girl on here. Hazel and I feel lonely at times.
Spoons: Fingers crossed your achilles niggle is sorted. You're due some good luck.
Tee hee on Jools bumping up FBT's marathon target.
Millsy: Nice 10k.
FBT: I used HR quite extensively but am not bothered with it so much these days. I find it helpful for LT and VO2 max runs because I'm slow and lazy and I would otherwise not run fast enough. Be careful if it's wrist based though. My fenix gives me idiotic readings because I have tiny wrists so the sensor is at a bit of a loss. The HR strap is more reliable.
Love those Man Makers. Might incorporate them into my strength work at the gym. Treadmill running in the gym is my heat acclimatisation
Bit of an easy week as my hamstring is still niggling. Osteo poked and prodded and basically told me off for sacrificing exercises in favour of miles (she's right)
I've done 9, 6, 5 and 10 so far this week. Plus lots of yoga and some kettlebells. Going to jog parkrun tomorrow and then do race #3 of the winter series on Sunday. This coincides nicely with me having to do a fast finish MLR (last 5k @ LT pace).
Have a great weekend all.