P&D Spring Marathon 2019



  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    NE: to be honest I've been doing this for about 6 months now since I switched to a low carb high fat diet - never have breakfast before a run and never take any calories during. When you slip the gels in during races then its like taking rocket fuel.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Ps NE How does this predictor & junk mileage calculator compare with your result? https://christofschwiening.blogspot.com/2019/04/test.html
    Clearly to make gains at 5K you should shift speed of runs up, particularly the 20% race pace & faster IMO
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Well done on the final VO2 session, Steve. Some good paces there too. Christ, how early have you been running if you have still been with headtorch in recent times?!

    Really enjoyed the graph, NE. I even showed it during some GCSE stats revision (err Sir, shouldn’t it be a histogram ‘cos it’s continuous data?). I am a big fan of polarised training, and doing so on effort. Like others have said, colleagues don’t believe me when I say what speed I do most (recovery) running at – over 3m/m slower than a recent 10k race. And I am absolutely made up for you with the parkrun PB – fantastic!

    Well done on the long run, TR. Hope the taper goes well. Time to pepper in some fast stuff?

    Fantastic 10k time, Reg, and a very pleasing podium in what must have been a strong field. Amazing what you can do when you string a few injury-free weeks together. Hope it stays that way for you.

    Crikey that is a hell of a long, fasted run AWC. You’re in great shape.

    Great to see you getting stuck into all the events, Jooligan. I’m sure with consistency things will pick up again before you know it.


    Standard parkbuggy run on Saturday morning then I got a bit giddy in the sunny weather and went for an afternoon bike ride. Really enjoyed it, although no idea how I used ride significantly fast for 6-7 times as far. Just shows how the specificity of training, I guess. Great fun nonetheless.

    Sunday morning was the classic ten route from home, followed by a recovery 7 with spoons this morning. Really good to discuss his progress and route back to full training. Just shows the level of training on the thread that a near 80 mile week is merely a step towards that!

    I’ve gone 30, 50, 76M since London and feeling generally good for it. I'll try to squeeze in a track session and a commute to work this week, before doing very little in Corfu next week  :)

  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Not been on for a while and lots to catch up on. 

    Great 10k Reg. Cracking PB, just need to stay injury free for that 75 min HM.

    Your graph looks good NE. Nothing wrong with the pace distribution. It obviously worked well, especially considering you were struggling around Jan/Feb. Keep that up consistently and I'm sure you'll improve more. I tend to do less slow running and more middling sort of stuff but people will tell you that's no good either. I've tossed up having a go at the Pen Llyn ultra but unsure the proposal will get past the SPO. I know you've done it at least once, any thoughts?

    Great long LR AWC. 

    Jools - a good range of events on the track, even if you weren't happy with the times. How do you time 100m anyway?

    Great running everyone else.

    Keeping it easy at the moment, probably one more week of easy stuff before I think about some sessions. 6, 24, 52 mile weeks since London. Tried some strides last week and nearly popped a calf. Will try some more this week and see how it feels.
  • HydeparkrunnerHydeparkrunner ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    SQ - good work with the 10K while still not at 100%. Regarding the prize fiasco, I really do wonder what went through the mind of the person/ people who decided on that. I have an image in my head of what they look like. Good mileage for last week and enjoy your holiday.

    AWC - great final long run and some really good training in the last few weeks. It seems like you’re in great shape, hopefully the knee is nothing serious. The less said about my now free Sunday this weekend the better  :(

    NE - I’d say looking at your graph, you do a lot of miles slower than the recommended paces. Other than recovery runs I think the slowest pace in P&D is MP + 25% for GA runs which is about 9.5 minute miles. So you must be running some of your non-recovery runs slower than this pace as you did 35% of your mileage at 10+ mm. Although I don’t know if it’s something you need to consciously correct, I’m sure too slow for a good portion of your runs is better than too fast. Well done on the sub 20 at park run as well
    Regarding the football, I can’t say I’m relishing another season in the championship after the strong showing we had this year. Hopefully we keep Bielsa and then I’ll be confident.

    TR - sounds like a really good 3 weeks of training. Figures crossed the weather behaves on the day so you can give it a real good go.

    Reg - a 51 second PB over 10k is huge, congratulations

    SteveMac - Good final VO2 session. How are you feeling for Sunday? What’s your target?
    Congrats to Villa. I really had no favourite in the finalists, but after Derby acted like they won the World Cup at our place I’ll be happy for you to wipe the smug grin off Fran Lampard’s face. Even if it means seeing the equally smug grin from John Terry.

    Spoons - you seem to be back in full swing now and you’re seeing the benefits. I’m mentally taking notes for my build up.

    Jooligan - I saw all the activities go up yesterday eve and wondered what on earth was going on. I’d be interested to see an analysis on your running paces similar to NE’s. With all your races I can imagine the spike might be a little further right.

    50 miles for me last week and things felt to be really coming round on the weekend. I’m still a distance off my fitness from a few weeks before Manchester, but I imagine shifting the 10 lbs I’ve put on will help. Unfortunately my social calendar doesn’t let up for the next 5 weekends.

    In other news, I signed up for Valencia yesterday, which means 10 weeks until the start of marathon training. Both plenty of time to get some serious fitness or for things to go seriously wrong.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Talking of Autumn races, tossing up between Leicester, Chester and York. Anyone got any thoughts. The only reason I'm considering Leicester over the others is that it's closer and an easy drive from the inlaws' place.

    HPR - Keen on Valencia too but don't think it's going to happen.
  • I'm in Amsterdam and Valencia. Amsterdam because Katie wants to target it, and Valencia because it's da best race in the world. 

    HA - we'll probably be at the Leicester half, as a mate lives there and is doing it. It's in the diary.

    Bit quiet from me lately, apologies. Whatever illness I had before london is refusing to clear off, so I have a few days of training and then feel sh*t again. Motivation is tumbling as a result. Ironman in July has already turned into an 'enjoy the experience' with a number of weddings, stag-do's and weekends away on the horizon. 

    Organised our 4 teams around the Green Belt relay this weekend. One of my favourite weekends of the year, as much for the social as the running. 

    Stage 7 on Saturday which was an 11 miler from St Albans to Letty Green, was ill beforehand, blew up spectacularly trying to go with 2nd group, before limping home via a toilet stop less than a mile from the finish. Came all a bit feverish afterwards, confirming it was a bad idea. Finished 6th

    Got quite drunk on Saturday night, resolved to run the next days stage with Katie, as she was going for the ladies win. Unfortunately, there was a 2:50 marathoner also on our leg, and after a couple of miles I was released to have some fun. Felt much better than the previous day, and ran all the way up to 3rd. A much more enjoyable experience. 

    Awesome run Reg - really great to see you back hitting some super fast times. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    NE - as you get fitter then that differential might swing the other way after all.

    Reg - speedy 10k there. 

    AWC - cracking long run, trumps my 23m.

    Spoons - when you get to the point where you find yourself forgetting about an injury hurting when you run, its a nice place to finally be.

    Jools - good to see that you have had some downtime.

    SQ - in my 3 target weeks ive done a tuesday session of mile reps, tempo or mp and a thursday mp session, so hopefully ive covered the basics. Mile reps tomorrow. Enjoy yr hols.

    Hope you feel fully better again soon joe.

    HA - Leicester is a bit hillier ?

    15m today for me, last school day mlr ticked off.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Oh yes......dont keep this spring thread open on my behalf, im happy to move across to an autumn thread.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    HA my first thought was that Leicester is hillier. Didn't you do it a couple of years ago though?
    York is British Masters championship this year I believe so may have a deeper fast field than Chester which increases the chance of finding a group to run with.
    I might yet oblige with the bar chart HPR.
    Just over 5 hilly miles this evening round our club's trail race course which I'm marshalling on Thursday. Interesting course with a very varied mix of running. Still places available SQ NE.
  • Before the thread runs away..........SQ - really enjoyed the report, its got me fired up for some midweek summer 10ks. 40 odd secs off pb pace from a couple of recovery weeks bodes well.

    Reg - as others have intimated, given an injury free build up your pbs are due for some revision, well done.  Have you identified an autumn half ?

    Classic Jools - love it.  Hopefully you can build now with the injury behind you.

    NE - I was a bit surprised at the amount of miles over 10 min miling. Personal experience, in that 3 to 3:30 bracket I dont recall much over 9min miling.  As Jools suggests, if its a lot of hilly trail running (in the dark ?) then that would account but as you say "if it aint broke....".  I think thats called sitting on the fence!  I tried to capture mine in the same format but I'm having a few it issues.

    HPR - I've no particular beef with Leeds but plenty with Terry and Lampard so feel your pain....go for a run during the play off ?

    Spoons - sounds like you are on the road to getting back to where you where, no rush but good to see.

    All the best with taper Steve.

    TR - we could have a betwixt Spring and Autumn thread.  To quote "you got this".

    Joe - sorry the illness is hanging around, must be so frustrating and demotivating.  The only crumb of comfort I can offer is you have so many years ahead.

    AWC - when I saw that run I thought it ticked all the boxes, distance, time on feet, pace, course knowledge, elevation, I didnt realise it was fasted too !

    Sensible approach HA, likewise Hammo,  I'm missing the plan a little bit too.

    Not a lot to report here although I was quite pleased to get to 77 miles last week without a huge effort.  A park run at MP pace was a little underwhelming but it was undulating and in trail shoes that felt like wellies so I'm not too worried.  In pursuit of elevation I've taken to hill reps but I really need a bigger hill, I think I'll need to drive to one but that feels like wasted running time......I think the internet calls those 1st World Problems,
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Morning all. Good to see things picking up a little bit on here. Although a lull between campaigns is understandable, and probably a good think.

    Slight revision to my three weeks post London: 30, 50, 67.

    I’d love to see how you went in an ultra, HA. Hope the calf is ok. I did Chester and ran a PB there in 2016. Slightly undulating but a genuinely fast course. Nice mix of busy town a village support then quiet yet beautiful countryside. Good start/finish at racecourse. Big fan, although logistics usually win the day.

    Great to hear you’re in for Valencia, HPR. Would love to do it one day. As Joe says, it has a reputation as being a great race.

    Get well soon, Joe. I find a good blowout every now and then can help reset things physically and mentally.

    Good mix of paces there, TR.

    Considering it, Jools, but I suspect it won’t quite work out. Looking forward to Blaisdon nonetheless. Hope it goes well.


    Feeling a little beaten up today, perhaps after not sleeping very well last night. Canal 10 at easy effort for just below 7:30m/m. Absolutely glorious morning. Once clear of town it was really calm and picturesque. Headphone ran out of battery half way through which turned out to be a positive – loads of birdsong.

  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    A bit to catch up on, good to see,

    Steve...good vo2 session.

    Spoons...Very encouraging parkrun, a quick time, and nicely followed up by a decent LR. Well done.

    NE...Excellent Parkrun, brilliant.

    TR...all the very best with the taper, you've certainly put the effort in this last 3 weeks.

    Reg...class 10k time, and congrats on the pb. Hope you continue to stay injury free.

    AWC...that is some distance to go unfueled, fair play to you. Hope the knee is nothing major at all.

    SQ...building back up nicely after London. Enjoy Corfu.

    HA77...and you too, building back up well. As SQ says, would be very interesting to see how you'd go at an ultra.

    HPR...an early good luck with the training for Valencia. Its a race i've been considering more and more over the last while. Winter sun will be hard to beat.

    Joe...sorry to hear you're still struggling, hope it clears soon. Very decent run on the Sunday though all the same.

    Macca...77 without too much effort is good going. I'm a bit the same about driving to a run (unless its a race), just feels wrong.

    Thankfully i missed the worst of the lurgy, sniffly and a bit bunged up but not too bad at all, so pushed on over the weekend with a 10 on Saturday and 17 on Sunday to bring my weekly total to 77, and back up to pre London taper levels. Easy double yesterday of 6 and 4, was followed by a turn the brain off and run 8 mile this morning which was nice. Weather has been glorious this last wee while, so its nice to get out and run with no pressure. 

    Almost certain I've decided to target the Great North Run for Autumn, rather than the Dublin marathon. Bought the faster road racing book and i'm looking at the up to 100m 12 week HM plan. The thought is, race GNR, race( ??? depending on recovery ???) Belfast half 2 weeks later, then use the Dublin marathon (a month after) as a tempo/quality long run before starting a plan for London. Sounds good in my head anyway :D 
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Hamo - If you plan to race GNR, make sure you get a good starting spot, as really crowded at the start.
    TR - Nice 3 week plan, enjoy the taper.
    HPR - We didn't play particularily well again WBA in the semi, so need to up our game in the final. Goal for race is probably Gold=1:23, Silver=1:24, Bronze=1:25....all very close, but not much in them pace wise.
    HA - Agree with the others, I think you'd finish very high/podium an ultra given your pace. Have you looked at Downslink ultra in the autumn? Meant to be a fast one.
    AWC - Nice, no idea how you can run that distance without fuel!!
    Joe - Recover well.
    8 miles with 2 at HM pace today (6:18/6:17), nice to run those paces, but won't be going out that fast on Sunday!! After my last half I really need a controlled start, no 6:0x this time at the start and 7:xx at the end!!
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    After a quiet few days on the thread things have picked up a bit of pace again!
    HPR: Valencia sounds lovely - nice time of year to go there as well
    Steve: always nice to get that one out of the way - really gets me in the mood for racing.
    Hamo: sounds like a good autumn racing season!
    Joe: thought you'd been a bit quiet. Hope you are feeling better soon
    Macca: nice that a 77 mile week feels easy after a 100 miler. Good luck with the hill work - there are a few nasties on the SDW to get ready for! On the trail shoe front I changed mine 6 months ago to something pretty light and minimal because my old ones felt like a pair of clogs.
    TR: nice 15 mile MLR - I don't miss those at the minute!
    HA: I think you would totally demolish a flat, fast 50km or 50 miler with not much additional volume/long miles.
    Thankfully the knee was just a niggle on Sunday as it felt fine today on a 5mi recovery - probably from all the descending I did last week which takes it toll on knees/quads.
    Couple of hilly commutes this week and I'll probably do a trail 20 miler at the weekend which will hopefully feel easy after the recent 28 milers.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Macca - i agree with your wasted time comment, i run from my gate, or from work. I note your confidence (in me), i had a look the other day at how folks around me (at brighton), had fared since and theres been a few sub 3s. Ive been feeling a bit of self imposed pressure, but i just need to control the day and have a  kinder build up and day uncontrollables wise.

    SQ - sounds like a great early morning run.

    Hamo- good to have some fixtures yo train towards 

    Steve - hope the 1/2 goes well, not much margin on those targets.

    Awc - i will join you with a reduced long run this weekend.

    9m inc 5 x (approx) 1m for me today.
  • NorthEnderNorthEnder ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the comments on my graph.  Don't encourage me. I can find plenty more!  I might have to start putting a copyright symbol on them though SQ  ;)   Actually...  I'm really not sure (though I should be)... I thought that a histogram was a bar chart... just a bar chart that is specifically a frequency diagram, but still a bar chart.  (I'm only trying to find a bit of pedantry to save myself from being proved wrong by a group of 16yr olds.)

    No time for a full post right now... but just need to say to HA that Pen Llyn officially closes tomorrow.  Not sure if they'll re-open it (it would not surprise me if they accept a sneaky late entry) but it has been popular this year.   I don't know which distance you're interested in.  I've done the 75 twice.  This is an absolutely stunning route.  Some tough climbs in there... but also some long stretches that are just flattish or gentle undulation where you can relax.  I cannot speak highly enough of the spectacular coast that you follow for about 60 of the 75 miles.   The people are great and they now have a campsite, with a dedicated runners/supporters field, right next to Abererch train station ( about 70 metres)....  all about 150metres from the beach where the races starts and ends. The people are great. If you took family/friends, they can follow you round... but they are going to make it more interesting for them if they stay at base camp, with a large marquee this year, I understand. 

    You'd be setting off at sunrise and, for me, it was 2.40am when I finished... so you've to be prepared to run in the night.  Navigation is pretty easy as these things go.  Basically, just keep the sea on your left for the first 60 miles and follow the national Wales Coast Path trail.

    If you do the hundred, it's the same course, but with 25 miles tacked on at the start... so again it will be wonderful scenery.  It starts 5hrs earlier.    The 50 mile route is, from memory about 30 miles that is the same as the other distances, but about 20 miles where you cut across the peninsular rather than hugging the coastline.   A bit less coast in that (prob about 20-23 miles of the route actually on the coast)... but I think the path crossing the peninsular must be really great in a different way.

    I simply love it and will miss it badly this year - although, to be fair, there must be many other lovely ultras out there.  I've only done one other.  Very very highly recommended.  But you'll need to be quick.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Cheers for the votes of confidence on me running an ultra, but, to start with at least, it would just be a matter of getting around in one piece. I can't think I'd do any extra training, maybe put 2 big days back to back, so I probably wouldn't be able to think about racing properly.

    Thanks for the info NE, it really does sound great. Just checked the site and entries don't close until 24 June. Just need to see if logistics work out and if I can sell it to the boss. I keep meaning to run the Welsh 1000m race (all the Welsh mountains over 1000m) but it's always right near my kids birthdays so we always have something on. I've been to the Llyn Peninsular a number of times so was drawn to that race. A 50 miler would be ideal but I like the idea of the 75 mile route, all the way around the coast. 

    Regarding Autumn marathons, I ran Leicester last year. There is a decent hill in the last 1km but nothing much before that. The course was alright but nothing special and I suspect Chester and York might be better in that respect as well as having better fields.

    AWC - Building nicely, everything's looking good for a big performance.

    Hamo - Some serious training and racing planned, great stuff. Are you really going to treat the Dublin marathon as just a training run? I think you'll end up racing it and doing very well.

    TR - I'm another who never drives anywhere to run. 

    Macca - Saw you made the most of the being in London and went up and down Parliament Hill a few times, good work.

    Steve - Hope the taper is going well and it all comes together on race day.

    Joe - The fact that you're still sick says something about how well you did in London. Hopefully you can shake it soon.

    Will try some strides again today, hopefully the calf is ok this time.
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    Steve...Oh i know, i've ran GNR this last 2 years, its wild how busy it is. I was fortunate enough to start in the faster club runners pen last year though (hoping for the same again this), so was just behind the elites and while its still tight for a mile or so, its not the worst to get a good pace from the start. Super pace on the HM reps, all the very best for Sunday.

    AWC...really glad to hear the knee was just a niggle.

    NE...that sounds like a properly lovely run/race. There's a HM/Mara/Ultra here that runs along the causeway coast (AWC if your listening, id definitely look into it if you'll be home when its on, Portstewart - through the giants causeway - Ballintoy and back to Bushmills all along the coast, magic), and its just so hard to struggle/feel sorry for yourself when you look around at breathtakingly beautiful scenery, and that Pen Llyn sounds very very similar.

    HA77...that's the plan for Dublin anyway, but i know myself, once i get a number on and a horn goes it could well end up different. Hope the calf behaves with the strides.

    I went to the club for a 6x800m session last night (2.40 - 2.46), where I got roped into racing a leg of the 1 mile relays for the club on Friday night, so having never raced a mile before i'm on for a certain pb  :D Followed that up with a 14m MLR run this morning along the canal. Just a class morning for running. 

    Just checked the course for the mile, half a mile up a fairly steep hill, round a corner and half a mile back down another hill...not sure what to make of that, was looking forward to racing a flat(ish) mile just to see what i could do.
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