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Shades Marathon Training
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Shades - I doubt it is short as there are a lot of 10Ks that use the same course - not just Runthrough, but Sri Chinmoy, Innovation Sports and others. Let's hope anyway.
Big G - way to go! That's a cracking time.
Like Shades, I wasn't really looking forward to a long run in freezing temperatures, especially the day after a race (plus, shark week started yesterday, which is always fun, sorry guys...). Oh and I only got 4.5 hours sleep as the post-race early waking thing happened again.
However, I said to myself "bitch, that marathon ain't going to run itself" and went and put my tights on. Not knowing how I'd feel a day post-race, I decided on a minimum of 12 miles (the number I needed to bring me up to 30 miles for the week) but would try to do more if I could.
In the end, I did 18 in 3:09:57. I started quite quickly because it was bloody freezing and opted for the hilly Brockwell route. Manchester may be flat but Liverpool isn't so I need to practise for that. Plus, Brockwell Park is rather nice, despite its profile. I did 2.5 laps of that (vs 1.5 the last two times) then headed back along the South Circular to Clapham Common and did 2 laps of that before plodding home.
I felt good for around 12 miles but after hitting 13 it suddenly got hard. I guess this was the point at which my glycogen stores were depleted (as usual I was running fasted, and I didn't take any gels) but I had a little dialogue with myself about how this was the point at which I was going to get stronger, physically and mentally, so whilst I slowed down a little, I kept on plugging away until I reached my house.
I'm happy with the run given that it was the day after a race, plus all the other stuff I mentioned, so whilst it was a mile shorter than the last long run, and a small positive split, it was a good deal quicker (10:33 average vs 10:59). No major niggles, either.
I expect I will have a nap this afternoon, though.
Another PB Big G and we're still in January! What a great start to the year.
Nice long run, Cal. It was a lovely day for a long run today, wasn't it - cold, bright and frosty. I'm sure it's just a GPS thing then as you're right, that park is used for loads of races.
Shades - I was checking the temperature too before setting out today. It was -3 here at 8am but I think it had risen to a balmy -1 an hour later when I set off. My schedule had 16 with 10 at MP but I missed out the first Map run a couple of weeks ago so I compromised and did 17.5 with 8 at MP. I find the MP tough but a lot easier than the LT sessions which I struggle with. MP was a bit slower then PB marathon pace but was OK. Hamstring still niggley and often the niggle moves higher up, just below the bum. But it's fine to run with. But felt the usual ITB niggle in last half mile so need to keep up those exercises!
I ran 8 miles over some frosty hills on Friday and 8 on the flat today.
Cal, do you still listen to the cure? I've never moved on from the music I grew up with.
I don't often listen to music these days, Jugula, as I tend to spend my (non-running) leisure time playing games or watching TV, both of which have soundtracks. I still like the music I listened to when I was young, though.
SK - my Garmin said it was -2 for my run. I thought it felt cold!
mowzer - unusual for you to have a race free weekend.
Big G - another PB, great running and 2 minutes is quite a chunk off. Considering you had a niggle and had to stop the speedwork and had 2 nasty cold viruses you've done amazingly well.
Cal - another good run from you. You do need to start practising the breakfast as you won't have many more opportunities to get your race breakfast fuelling right. I would suggest you take something with you too for when you have a dip, there is no benefit in not taking on fuel at that point.
SK - another tough long run for you, well done. Those runs must be good for pace discipline though as it encourages you not to overcook the first part of the run which would then make the MP part harder.
Jugula - I had a hamstring origin injury too, takes a long time to heal but it was manageable. I thought I would have it forever but eventually it went away.
Very cold this morning and a very heavy frost, but no wind. Well layered up and I had a nice run as 95% of the pavements/roads were dry to run on.
Didn't see that cyclist from the last couple of weeks but met a different one riding on the pavement, he gave me a very warm friendly 'Good Morning' and I said 'What are you doing riding on the pavement, you dickhead'. It was 5:30 in the morning, not a car in sight and a huge wide empty road for him to ride on.
I'm so fed up of this cold weather, I think we only have one more very frosty night this week and we're promised temps up to 10 during the day
Nice PB's Big G & Cal
Mowzer - It doesn't seem right you not having a race over a weekend
SK - Well done on first lady at Parkrun and the MP session.
Shades - I bet he doesn't ride on the pavement next time!!
Well after last weeks disaster of a long run, I needed to have a good run this weekend as it was meant to be my first 20 miler of the plan. I wrapped up warm and set off just after 8am, took a couple of wrong turns and did just over 21 miles at an average of 7:57, compared to usual pace of 8:30. Wasn't looking at watch as it was under my jacket, but felt OK. Was a good confidence booster and finished off a 56 mile week. Turns out my Garmin recorded the temp as -6c!! A slightly lower mileage week this week which is good as legs are a bit sore today!
Jugula - I'm on a one woman mission to get cyclists off the pavements.
What annoys me most is that they think they have a right to cycle on the pavement when they don't. When I run on that route I often run part of it in the cycle lane or on the road as the surface is better but I hop back on the pavement as soon as a car of cyclist comes along.
Must be bad with you if you had to abandon the dog walk. Hope the dog has recovered from his dental work now.
Steve - that's a great long run, certainly makes up for last week's difficult run.
Eek Steve, minus 6 is seriously cold! Hope the legs are feeling OK today. Well done again on the long run, what a difference a week makes.
Shades, the only time I've cycled on pavements is when my kids were too young for cycling on the road. But when they got to age 5, I'd cycle on the road, leaving them on the pavements alongside. Probably less relevant where you are, but often around here the roads are really dangerous for cyclists, so this can put off anyone but the very experienced.
My pet hate is personal trainers at a local track. They use the council track facilities with their paid clients free of charge, which is fair enough. But quite often they'll hog the inside lanes with their clients doing stationary exercises like lunges and squats!
Big G-Great for you getting a big PB,shows the training is coming together for you.
Cal-Good long running again.
Shades-Love that comment to the cyclist, I've had a couple along the prom I run on,they have an 8 foot wide cycle path yet still some ride on the pedestrian bit.
Got an early finish today so managed a bonus run,decided on a tempo run as these havent been my focus the last few weeks and managed 5 miles in 37:10,slightly slower than before Xmas but happy with it after Saturdays effort.
Gave my watch a soft reset and it seems ok now,1st time it's played up so hopefully a one off.
SK - I understand how dangerous and scary busy roads and junctions can be for cyclists but this is a new road that leads to a housing estate and is very quiet as we have a new bypass that takes the main traffic. Early in the morning I can run for 5 or 10 minutes without seeing a single car, it's also well lit and a lovely smooth road surface. No excuse for riding on the pavement. I do see quite a few cyclists and you can see how they enjoy speeding along that stretch of road. This is the part of the road where the cyclist was yesterday and at least he should have moved to the road, he was cycling in the right direction to do so.
That's really annoying about the personal trainers, if I were you I'd point out the etiquette of track use which is you don't use the inside lane unless you are running at your normal pace. Not many personal trainers are runners so probably don't know that.
Ian5 - nice for you to get a bonus run in.
GPS watches can be a law unto themselves at times and do odd things. A soft reset should sort it out although I'm never sure if sometimes it isn't a satellite blip. Last year a forumite was telling me that she stopped during a run to use a loo and when she came out her watch had clocked up nearly another mile.
BTW if you have a watch that requires the history to be cleared now and then, do so before your marathon. In 2010 I was running a marathon and on for a PB and at 20 miles my watch started squawking at me that the history was full and it couldn't record any more splits. Because I was on for a PB I didn't want to stop and reset the watch so I carried on but found it really hard not having mile splits for those last few miles, there were no mile markers as it was a race round a park so our laps were being recorded.
Delayed run today, we have freezing fog and the roads are slippery. Forecast to warm up to 9 or 10 later so will wait and enjoy a frost free run
Thanks for the comments about my 10-mile race. I plugged my recent 10K time into a race pace predictor and it reckons I may be on for a 5-mile PB by a whopping 2-seconds, so that will be very tight when I do the 5-mile race in a couple of weeks! But I'll give it a go. It's a 2-lapper, going along a sea front for about 1-mile each lap; in good conditions it's great, but in bad weather there can be a lot of sand up on the road, which slows runners down a lot, especially if there's a head wind. However, the same 10K time doesn't equate to a Half PB, but I may surprise myself
My "Dry January" is going well, as is my weight loss, probably in part due to being "Dry"! I've lost 5lbs in weight since New Year's Day, so if I can lose another pound or two in January, that will be great as it'd take me to 13st. Then, ideally another 4lbs off to take me to my "racing weight", although I know from experience getting those last 4lbs off (and keeping them off) is more challenging. 13st may sound heavy still, but I am tall and 13st is a good/healthy weight for me for everyday things, but I like to try and be a bit lighter for racing (it's still a "healthy" weight though). If I can get a bit lower before my marathon, I'll be very happy and there's time for me to do that.
I did the "guide running" course last night, which was really interesting. Part of the "practical" section of the the course involved us pairing up and wearing glasses to mimic different types of visual impairment, and as a guide it really makes you think about the course, change in terrain, overhanging branches, bollards, pedestrians, dogs, curbs, how to do emergency stops, etc etc. All stuff we usually don't really think too much about when running, but as a guide you need to be aware of. My name now gets put on the England Athletic database where a visually impaired runner may be able to find me, but there is no system where I can find them; I think I am going to contact a few local races and the parkrun (the flat one; I wouldn't be confident guiding someone on an offroad course) to let them know I may be able to help, and I'll take it from there.
Someone asked about the fluorescent vests that guides and VI runners sometimes wear, and she did say that they don't always work as often in races a runner will come from behind and try to get between the tethered runners.....
Big G - I take it's the Fulford 5 which is your next race, is it still called that? That's a good PB course but as you say dependent on that wind off the sea.
Well done on your Dry January and the weight loss, do you feel any different not drinking, sleep etc?
The guide course does sound interesting. I would disagree re the bibs, saying Guide and Blind Runner, they really do make a difference to other runners coming past and a big difference to cars coming past, traffic knows that the runners can't go into single file. Maybe they are referring to congested shorter races but I guess it's even more important that a blind runner lines up at the start according to their pace, so not too far forward.
Shades, yeah I agree about the bibs. The instructor was just saying to not 100% rely on them (i.e., it's best to have a plan B, and not rely on other people to necessarily acknowledge the bibs), as not everyone takes notice and some try to barge through the middle of the runners regardless of the bibs. But yes, the bibs are a good idea, but they're apparently not 100% foolproof.
One other thing that I did notice on the videos was that one of the guides was very "motivational" (i.e., "you're doing really well", "let's push up this hill", etc etc). I wasn't really expecting that, but I suppose it depends on the relationship that the guide and VI person has.
Unfortunately, I haven't really noticed a lot of difference with not drinking, I think at least partly as I've been unwell. When the cold was at its worse, I was snoozing a lot, but maybe now I'm better I may notice being "dry" a bit more.
Yes, that 5-mile race is Fulfords 5 organised by Exmouth Harriers. It's a nice little race, and I like knowing that I can race, shower and change all within the hour
Not sure about the encouraging remarks, maybe if the runner is a novice. A lot of VI runners are experienced runners and unless it's a fast race would probably appreciate the normal chit chat that happens during a race.
Years ago I took my running group to Fulfords 5, for many their first race. We had a great post race photo of us all with horizontal hair, it was so windy that day.
I guess you probably don't drink enough to notice any effect on your general health.
Frost starting to clear here, but still cold. Have spent the waiting time renewing car insurance, £85 saved by switching
. I think I change insurer every year, but don't normally manage to save that much. Now for the nice part which is calling my current insurer to lapse
, they will try and bribe me by some discount but if they can't give me their best price when they send the renewal I don't want to know.
Big G-Great weight loss,not managing to shift anything myself,looks like I may have to look at my diet now(goes into a corner and cries)
Not sure if you are aware of this website http://www.britishblindsport.org.uk/news/new-national-guide-runner-database/
Decided on a different type of run today so went to the track for a 10 mile MP run,as I'm debating doing a track marathon.I know it's a lot of peoples idea of running hell,but I like the idea of seeing people every lap,drink and fuel whenever you want and not carrying anything.It went pretty good except for the fact the watch over-estimates how far you have gone,only by about 3 mtrs per lap,but over 105 laps that's a lot,so after a bit I altered my speed to time per lap rather than relying on the distance
Shades, I have the same attitude with insurers. Also the same with cars. A few years ago now we were looking for around for a new one, and went around various showrooms asking for their best price (armed with the info from sites such as drivethedeal for prices to aim for). We ended up going for a particular car as the price was very good, and then other manufacturers were ringing us back trying to tempt us with lower prices. Similarly to you, if they'd just given us their best price to start with they'd have stood a better chance.
Ian, thanks for that link; I wasn't aware of it and I'll take a look. Unfortunately, I think the diet is a very big contributing factor with weight loss. It's only a rough estimate but I've seen it written that, on average, someone may burn 100 calories a mile (regardless of pace, so I've read), so even a 10-mile run only burns something like 1000 calories (like I say, just an estimate, but that equates to 4 or 5 beers). Therefore, it's much "easier" to reduce calories through better diet than through exercise, in my experience, but of course many of us (me included) find that challenging. Good luck wth it.
I haven't long been back from a 19-mile run, which went well. I wrapped up warm and just went out at a steady pace. Regarding warmth, I've recently bought some new base layers and also Sealskinz gloves, both of which were very good - especially the gloves. I had an idea of doing 20, but in the last mile or two I felt a very slight twinge in my left knee so stopped the run a mile short. I'm hopeful it'll come to nothing, but I didn't see the point in risking it.
I meant to add something else to the above post. The chap who won the DD last year is on Strava and he shares all his training on there. The other day he went out and paced a club mate of his around a 13.1 mile training run, in preparation for his mate hoping to get a PB at the Half marathon in a few weeks time (the same one I'm doing). Miles 1 to 11 were all between 5:57 and 6:02, with the last 2 miles a bit quicker presumably because they wanted a strong finish. That's pretty metronomic!
Big G - the two blind runners in our club seem to vary in terms of the help they need. One likes to hold on to a small piece of rope between her and the guide but the other holds or links hands I think. One has a really good sense of direction and actually managed to tell her guide the right way to go when he wasn't sure where they were on a training run! For parkruns they often need a volunteer to look after the guide dog while they run.
Well done on the weight loss. I noticed no difference in my health when I went tea total for a whole year (although I wasn't drinking much before). But it did really put me off alcohol and I now rarely drink through choice.
Shades - there was an item on cyclists on pavements this morning (around 7:20) on 5 Live - I thought of you
On a sad note, my 15 yo nephew lost a good friend at the weekend. He was also an arch rival in the cyco cross world. He was a promising cyclist who was expectes to go on and compete for GB cycling as a senior. The cause of death is unknown, the boy just didn't wake up from his sleep. My poor nephew is now afraid to go to sleep
SK, really sorry to hear that about your nephew's friend. I don't know what to say really, except life can be shit and his parents must be distraught (understatement, obviously). I hope your nephew comes out the other side in due course, and is able to sleep properly soon.
Ian5 - it's a difficult time of year for weight loss, the weather is cold and you are marathon training.
Yes, GPS always over measure on the track, interesting you're considering a track marathon. I've never done a marathon on the track but have done 6,12 & 24 hour races on them. However, be careful, track running for that distance can easily give you an injury as you have no change in cadence plus you are running in the same direction for the whole distance, knee, ITB and cramping problems are very common. Is it the one at Telford you're looking at?
Big G - my existing insurer admitted they couldn't get near that price so we parted on good terms.
Unfortunately I've never been able to get a discount on a car, only offered me further discounts if I took lease purchase which I wouldn't consider even at % APR. So I stick to my usual dealer and I'm happy with the other stuff I get from them, free full AA cover etc, that alone is worth £250 a year.
Re weight loss the more efficient a runner you become at using fat and glycogen the more efficient you will become at using your body fuel, so depending on your metabolism you could be burning as little as 50 calories a mile. Garmins and MFP way overestimate calories burned in exercise. But on the up side once you build your mileage up to a decent level and maintain it your metabolism will increase and it becomes easier to maintain weight.
I've heard Sealskinz stuff is good, lots rave about their waterproof socks.
SK - that is tragic about your nephew's friend, you just don't expect that to happen to a 15 year old.
I guess a few irate folk (like me) on the radio about the cyclists on pavements. Wasn't someone killed last year by a cyclist hitting them, I don't know the circumstances?
Icy again this morning, the weather turned much colder than expected and pavements are slippery again, later run again today. I don't like running later, much prefer to run first then get on with the rest of my day.
Shades-It's one in Warrington I'm looking at,its in 5 weeks.The main reason I was looking at it,was that I really want sub 4 this year and feel like I'm ready for it,but my training and races show 3:45/50 so I'm not sure whether to play safer and go round manchester just under 4,or go for the 3:45 but then I'm wary about blowing the 4 if I go out too fast,so thinking if I can get the 4 first I can really go for manchester without the worry.
Not sure if that makes sense but it does in my head
Ian5 - it makes sense to me, you feel ready to race but want another opportunity rather than just wait for Manchester.
There's a marathon at Wrexham, 5th March I think, if you want another option.
Shades, yes the Garmins overestimate the calories. On yesterday's run, my Garmin said I burned 3200 which is way out and to be honest, I ignore those figures. When I used to use MFP, I based my calories burned on the 100 calories a mile estimate for tracking purposes, which seemed to work for me at the time.
Ian, I have the same marathon goal in mind. If I don't get it this year, I think I'll give up
Similarly to you, the race predictor shows a faster time than I think I am capable of, and I really hope I sneak under the mark at this March marathon I've got. That's my goal, anyway! Then, if I do, I'll just enjoy London and genuinely not care too much about the time I get.
Shades-I looked at wrexham but its on the 12th this year so would only give me 3 weeks until Manchester,with the track one I get 5 weeks for Manchester.think I may do my next 20 mile on the track and see how that goes,81 laps with no support,that could be interesting
SK, damn that's awful. He must have had a heart defect or something.
Big G, well done on the weight loss, guide course and 19 miler. You can totally nail that 5 miler. (I've never done a 5 mile race, there don't seem to be many around).
Ian - right with you there, buddy. I've gone through the first three weeks of January without eating any crap, but my body refuses to give up the pounds it gained over Christmas. I'm close to 11 stone and need to get down below 10'7 and ideally 10 if I want to get faster. Whilst I'm not eating anything you'd call bad, I guess I am eating quite a lot of carbs to fuel my running (mostly gf bread, baked potatoes and oats). So I'm going to have to look at cutting down on those. Ugh.
Shades, cycling on the pavement is one of my pet peeves - I've had a couple of incidents with children on bikes. One little boy was racing his bike down the pavement when I was coming back from the launderette with a huge bag slung over my shoulder. He missed me but clipped the bag and ended up hitting a telegraph pole. He did not come out of it well.
Another time a little girl was trying frantically trying to keep up with her mother (who was riding on the road) and nearly hit me, wobbled and fell off. Totally the mother's fault. I understand her not wanting her kid on the road but she should no way have ridden ahead.
Incidentally, awful pavements here too.
So after skipping my run yesterday due to very high pollution levels (a shame as the sun was shining) I went out this morning in the freezing fog. The combination of mist and frost made for some very treacherous pavements on the way up to common, resulting in an 11:33 first mile. The frost was easier to avoid on the common as I could run on the grass (well, frozen mud) at the edge of the path if the path was bad, though by the end of the run a lot of the frost had disappeared. I did 6.2 miles/10K, with the uphill miles in the 10:40s and the downhill miles in the 10:20s and a final mile of 10:12 (the heading for breakfast mile as I like to call it). Yeah, I've rather given up on the idea of trying to eat before a run, but I will take some gels on my long runs in future since I'll be using them during the marathon.
Big G - 100 calories is probably right for you, but you are tall. I've seen folk on RW forum eat the extra calories as per their Garmin and ended up putting on a stone or two
I hope you won't give up your marathon goal, but let's hope you don't need to even consider that.
Race predictors for marathons are fairly precise. However, for someone new to the distance and training most will say recent half marathon time plus 10 to 20 minutes is more realistic. A runner probably needs about 10 years of serious training to reach their peak and for a marathon that's about half marathon time plus circa 7 minutes. Some runners cope better with endurance races than others, some just don't do enough training. And it can all go wrong on race day for a multitude of reasons...we've all been there
Ian5 - that's a shame about Wrexham being too late for you this year.
If you mean crowd support, you'll find very little during a track marathon, however you do get the a good chance to socialise with the other runners.
xpost Cal - it's difficult when you're marathon training to cut down your food intake as it's a fine line between having enough fuel to run well and create a calorie deficit, especially when you're doing long runs.
Yes, I blame the parents too re kids cycling on the pavement and not stopping for pedestrians. Luckily I don't meet any kids at 5 or 6 a.m. in the morning.
Very slippery here too, I looked out the window this morning and didn't think it looked to bad and then saw a pedestrian nearly fall over.