Shades Marathon Training

Cal Jones

Shades - yeah, but oddly, my quads were a lot less fried than after Manchester (enough that I could walk downstairs OK the day after, versus not until three days after Manchester), and it's usually my quads that get sore from downhills. I suppose the downhills weren't really steep enough to stress my quads that much.
I wasn't going to run today but it looked nice out, so I had a little fight with myself along the lines of "but I'm tired and I'm not sure I should be stressing my hamstring again" versus "you'll feel less tired afterwards, and besides, it won't be sunny tomorrow. Besides, if your hamstring lasted a whole marathon, I'm sure it'll be fine." So I ended up running. And it was nice out and I did enjoy it. The hamstring felt better than yesterday, actually - yesterday it was more of a hamstring ache and today it was more of a glute grumble. I prefer the glute grumble, it's easier to ignore.
I felt as though I was running quite briskly. My legs had a bit more bounce and I felt quite good. "I reckon my first mile will be around 10:30!" I think. Garmin tells me 11:06. Oh.
I averaged 10:54 for the run, which is quicker than yesterday but still rather slow. I'm not worried about going slowly, but it's quite strange when you don't feel slow and yet you are. I'm blaming the week off.

Ian5

Shades-its lucky it's today as I can pretty much rest most of it,need to drive over to Anglesey but other than that I can stay off my feet a lot of the day.Am guessing I should wait until I can't feel any pain before I run again?

SHADES

Cal - sometimes you can get more post run soreness on a very flat route such as Manchester as you are getting no relief or change in cadence and using the same muscles all the time.   The quad soreness would depend on either how steep the downhill was or if you charged down at high speed on a lesser hill would do the same damage.
I think you're right, having a week off running gets you out of the practise of assessing speed and comfort of pace.

Ian5 - yes, don't run if painful.  If it bothers you when not running consider putting a bit of strapping or tape on it just to give a bit of extra support and elevate it if you get a chance.

Big_G

He was about 1-mile ahead at this point (8.5 miles).  Note the lead bike isn't actually leading  There is a great pic of him running up one of the massive hills, and the lead bike trailing quite far behind...

The DD report is up.  http://www.teignbridgetrotters.co.uk/news/latest-news-updates/dartmoor-discovery  (for info, I don't write the DD reports).

I did 5-miles last night and loved it, and just 3.5 this morning in the cold, heavy rain which wasn't especially pleasant.

Ian5

That's a ridiculous leg left,he won the track marathon I did and to see him in full flight numerous times going past was amazing.

Big_G

Ian - I agree.  I took four pics of him and the amount of ground he covers per stride is incredible.

Ian5

Shades-Reading that report about DD m,it says next year's race will be 34 miles 

SHADES

Nice pic Big G.  He always look really well balanced when he runs.

Ian5 - yes I'd heard the rumour that the course would revert to the original one for the 20th anniversary, an extra couple of miles with another hill unfortunately but then the finish comes into Princetown from the other direction past the famous prison.   Look on it as better value for money

Big_G

I won't post any more pics now, but this was my favourite that I took.   The running style of that sheep is pretty good  

SHADES

Big G - great photo.   The 2nd Trotter, is that AJ?

Big_G

Yeah, he unfortunately pulled out as he wasn't very well.  He's the chap who missed the GFA at Plym Trail by a few seconds the other week.  He's a lovely guy, and a great runner.  The chap in front of him was first MV50 at the race, and again is a really nice chap and obviously a great runner too; he holds the club marathon records for V45 (2:50:53) and V50 (2:50:34). 

SHADES

I don't know him but heard that he was rescued from a ditch at 28 miles with severe cramp, I expect the cold rain was partially responsible for that.  He's been unlucky this year.

I don't know the other guy either but impressive times for V50

SHADES

Right I've just measured roughly the last part of the DD course which will be the add on next year.   The current route from the final junction is 1.47 miles, ascent 295 ft. descent 77 ft.   Next year from the junction will be 3.36 miles, 447 ascent and 243 descent.   So that's not too bad as from the final turn into Princetown it will be slightly downhill and flat to the finish.

Ian5

So another 150ft of climb,suppose when you've done 4,000 what's another 150 

Big_G

I had heard something similar - I think he gave the nearby marshals a bit of a fright.  Some of the stories from this race are crazy - a runner getting rescued from a ditch, grown men crying as they're trying to get up a hill, the changeable weather conditions - but it's all part of it.  I think the "Dartmoor Discovery" is a great name as the runners probably discover something about themselves, too.

I was talking to Skins (who does the commentary over the tannoy at the race finish these days) over a few beers one day, and he's done the race a number of times.  He was telling me in his own, funny, unique way, how one year he felt like he'd been taking drugs at about 30-miles as he was hallucinating and didn't have a clue where he was.....

SHADES

Ian5 said:

So another 150ft of climb,suppose when you've done 4,000 what's another 150 

Exactly Ian.

Big_G said:

I had heard something similar - I think he gave the nearby marshals a bit of a fright.  Some of the stories from this race are crazy - a runner getting rescued from a ditch, grown men crying as they're trying to get up a hill, the changeable weather conditions - but it's all part of it.  I think the "Dartmoor Discovery" is a great name as the runners probably discover something about themselves, too.

I was talking to Skins (who does the commentary over the tannoy at the race finish these days) over a few beers one day, and he's done the race a number of times.  He was telling me in his own, funny, unique way, how one year he felt like he'd been taking drugs at about 30-miles as he was hallucinating and didn't have a clue where he was.....

Yes, I've seen quite a few men cry at DD especially when they get over that finish line.

Well as for Skins, I think he's made himself invaluable on the tannoy now so he doesn't have to consider running it again, he's very good at it and it really helps that final bit to the line with his encouraging commentary.

Ian5

Got to say big g,you're really selling it to me 

Big_G

Shades, I was wandering around at the start with my shiney, new shades on taking pics and he announced "Oh, here's Big G with his sunglasses.  The Chris Evans of Dartmoor"  

SHADES

Big_G said:

Shades, I was wandering around at the start with my shiney, new shades on taking pics and he announced "Oh, here's Big G with his sunglasses.  The Chris Evans of Dartmoor"  

Ha, ha, he is a wit.   Don't dye your hair ginger

Ian5 - don't let Big G put you off, but I can't deny its a tough race and when you finish there is an overwhelming sense of pride and achievement knowing that you had to dig deep but you did it.

Big_G

Ian, yeah, sorry not meant to put you off.  I'm going to enter it next year I think, and just try and train for it a bit better on more hills if I can.  I had an entry this year, but transferred it as I was really worried about cramping, which I did during my marathon PB in mid-March; I kind of run/walked the last few miles on a flat marathon, but doing that for 10+ on a hilly course wasn't what I wanted.  The last three marathons since then I haven't really cramped though, so I'm hoping my stretching is helping there.  But I still need to get out on the hills.  If I do it, I want to know I have a chance of getting around it in one piece, which I didn't feel that I had this year.

NickW2

I think I am sold on DD, it does sound a great race to do. However, I'd want to get some decent training in to have a good crack at it so it won't be next year. Not sure if I've mentioned on this thread before, but my wife is expecting our first child in a few weeks, so I really don't know how much running I'll be able to get done once that comes along. I'll certainly try to get out when I can, but focused training and longer runs are both likely to be challenging. So I'm relatively unlikely to do a marathon next spring, but will see how things work out. I have a vague idea of trying to train for one like Milton Keynes which I don't think normally sells out and I could get there and back on the day (it's about 45 mins on the train), but not entering until late on. But will see how things work out - obviously priorities change a little.

Anyway back to the present, annoyingly my outside of the foot pain has been back the last few days. It hurts for about an hour after I get up in the morning and then is normally fine the rest of the day. I have a theory that it might be more related to squash than running (I need new squash shoes but haven't got round to getting some which could be the root). Looking on the bright side my knee seems to have cleared up at least.

Cal Jones

Yeah, to even consider it, I'd have to do a boat-load of hill training, and that is entirely dependent on whether I can fix this hamstring issue. We'll see.
And that runner is ridiculous! (In a good way). Whenever I see photos of myself running, my feet are very close to the ground. I'm kind of like a hovercraft.

Ian5

Nick-Good luck for the next few weeks,and you're right to completely change your priorities,those 3 hr long run are out the window for a while.
Cal-I'm similar,I've tried lifting my legs higher and it does seem to make me run easier for the same pace but then I slip back pretty quickly into old habits.
As for DD,I am tempted but will have to do lots of hill training(obviously) and we do have some hills round here but not enough unless I do loops of the hills I'm training on now and that would be pretty boring as it's a 1.65 mile loop with 203ft of climb,so just need to do 20 loops and that's DD complete :-)

SHADES

Big G - all those marathons that you're doing this year will also help with your leg strength but I think you now have a strong desire to run DD.   Maybe run the Cornish in November as a taster?

I see from the DD report that there were 15 DNF's, that was pretty good really, a lower % than last year.

Nick - those hills at DD will wait for you until you are ready and as Ian says your priorities will change soon.   MK is a good choice, not run it but believe it's quite a fast course.

Maybe it is your squash playing that's niggling that tendon

Ian/Cal - might be an idea to take part in some events that have a few tough hills that would probably require walking due to the steepness.   LDWA do events that accept runners and you can run/walk them and they are great training for hilly runs, very cheap to enter and food at checkpoints.    I used to do LDWA events and I think that's how I became such a strong walker.   I see runners at DD struggle as they can't run a hill as it's too steep but are so unused to walking that they struggle and their leg muscles tighten up.

Ian5

Shades-I didn't think about that bit that sounds a great idea,as I never walk hills so may have the same issue.

Big_G

Shades, yes Cornish is on my radar.  I'm free that weekend and have marked it in my diary, but I haven't entered it yet.

Cal, just going back a few posts, if you can get yourself to Newton Abbot (there are B&Bs/hotels there, and Newton Abbot is a main line station from Paddington, or you can get there from Waterloo), I'm sure Shades or I can pick you up and get you to Princetown on race day.  Or, if you're into camping, I know a few of the runners camp near the race HQ the night before, and also after the race for the party.  Personally, I very much doubt I'll do that though - certainly not the night before - although I may go to the party if I do the race.  That's all a long way off, though.

Nick, congrats on the imminent arrival!

I'm off to Rome tomorrow.  I don't usually travel quite this much in a short space of time, having not long been back from NL.  It's just the way it's worked out, and I'm staying with friends on the outskirts of the city, so again no accommodation costs to worry about.  Should be good, although the forecast is very hot (34deg-type hot)!  I'm currently wondering whether to take a break from running for the holiday, or pack my stuff in case I do fancy a short run or two whilst I'm there.  I do have a marathon a week after I get back, though.  Hmmmm.

E mmy

Big G - you know the answer to that! Its always about the running on holiday! Some really lovely pictures from DD - it's definitely on my list and some lovely ones of Shades!

Shades - you're looking really slender and strong!

Nick - sorry to hear that the pain in back  

Managed a run this morning with both dogs (i've had to give Rogue a break as she's not recovered well from her last fistula). It went really well but still quite muggy here.

mowzer

Shades - great photos of you 

I haven't entered Mablethorpe this year - I think I'm doing Flower of Suffolk (LDWA) on that day instead.

Adam runs like a gazelle! Last time I did a couple at the Barrow 10 in 10, they made Adam do the ultras (as he was finishing so far in front it was ridiculous). Usually the 6 ml ultra loop is run after the marathon distance but Adam had to do it first and then 'run down' all the other entrants. It was a case of 'will I get to the 2nd or 3rd checkpoint before Adam goes past?'

Have a good holiday Big G 

I must pack my rucksack NOW or I won't be ready to go in the morning  Looks like we might have some rain.

E mmy

Shades - Adam submitted all of his 10in10 that he did last year to Guiness to register the new record but they got back and said that unfortunately it's not valid as some of the races were challenge events rather than marathons (challenge events are timed events rather than a set distance). He also failed some other requirements from what i've heard. There has been a really nice thing though - Rik (the current holder) has offered to help him with a significant amount of money for him to run Brathay 10in10 for it to count.

E mmy

Mowser - cross post. Hopefully you'll get everything packed and have a lovely time I've heard good things about the flower of suffolk - you've done it before right?