Shades Marathon Training

SHADES

Robert - I saw photos too of Tooting 24 hour, no chance of keeping feet dry in that weather.

Re the lady at Hull. Yes, I'd be furious too to be sent the wrong way but it didn't affect the result, she still was 2nd and how does she know that she ran an extra .2 of a mile. We all know that our GPS devices are not that accurate. She certainly shouldn't adjust her result, there's no need to. Also if a runner thinks they might be in with a chance of being placed then it's sensible to recce the course especially any turns and the last section to the finish.

Trust me running double or more marathons is way harder than running one fast one. 

Big G - that's a shame about young Trotter, I was going to ask you what he was doing. Social media is a double edged sword, can provide support and advice but also leaves you wide open to criticism and can have a negative effect and be quite damaging.
I think you're right, he should find a coach and train in a group of similar abilities and goals.

I've noticed that some of the Trotters at marathons where I've run don't report their times in when they've obviously just walked round.

As I'm not drinking alcohol either, I have the dilemma of what to do with the bottle of wine that the host left me as a gift.  She also left me lovely biscuits and chocolates. I'll have to take it with me, maybe give it to the guy who will check my hire car for any damages!

I'm packing up now as spending my last day tomorrow in Cork.

Big_G

Shades, I think young Trotter is targeting Frankfurt. His Dad told me he’s going over and staying with some Mavs?  That was a couple of months ago though, so don’t know if that’s still the same plan. 

SHADES

Big G - I'm going to Frankfurt too with the Mavericks but not staying in the same hotel. I think T has booked a big room in a pricey hotel and there's at least 2 other guys going too so they've probably booked another room too. I didn't book the same hotel as it was about £400 for 3 nights and non refundable with breakfast at another 33 euro a day. My hotel is only 180m from theirs. The hotels are in a great location, short walk to Expo, start and finish.

Cal Jones

Quiet day for me - pilates and a massage. The massage was much needed and he did some kind of voodoo on my foot and the achilles feels less awful now. It's chilly here too - I think someone said it was only 5 degrees first thing. My masseur used a cooling lotion on me so I was quite shivery walking home in shorts.

First time for me doing the club running results today, too. Hopefully I haven't cocked anything up!

Big_G

Cal, good luck with the press role. Nearly every week I got comments, but it was mainly because I’d missed people who weren’t down as Trotters in the results. My stance was they had to tell me if that was the case, as I only searched for my club’s name. Sometimes the press messed up my report as well, by making changes to it that introduced errors, which was very annoying!!

I’m a member of a sub-3 Facebook group, just to get some insight into what those guys are up to, and they do post some very interesting stuff. Fortunately they don’t actually vet their member’s times Anyway, the admin posted about AH and his PB, and that it was his 120th sub 3 and what an amazing achievement it is.  But one person said that Loch Ness is downhill, which sparked some debate and the admin felt the need to lock the comments. Some were saying that it’s a tough course, which trashes the quads, and others say the downhill must make it an ‘easier’ course. Apparently Pof10 denotes it as MARDH. A couple on there had it as a PB but others had PBs elsewhere and they felt Loch Ness wasn’t the best place for them personally to get a PB. 

All I know is that I’ve well and truly got ‘Tuesday Legs’ today - I’m hobbling around a lot. I had a 6-miler planned here but I’m not sure if it’s wise to try it - I’ll see how the  legs feel when I’ve moved around some more, and may just walk it instead. I’ll see. Legs feel worse today then they did after DD or Cornish, which has really surprised me. Maybe there is something in it that the downhill part makes it harder in other ways, especially as I was racing it at Loch Ness in comparison to my DD pace especially?  I did something like 3:58 at Cornish, worked quite hard to get a sub-4, and was sore at the end (it’s a totally different course - hilly, but starts and ends at the same place), but I feel worse after Loch Ness in terms of my legs feeling sore. 

Don’t get me wrong - it’s a great race and I’ll definitely do it again, maybe even next year if circumstances allow!  It’ll be interesting to see how I get on at Barnstaple this week - I hope I recover enough to at least be able to enjoy it, although I’m not bothered about the time really. 

Ian5

Big G-I'm in the same position today,hobbling badly,seems to be my worse DOMS yet it felt a comfortable race,can only think it's because my hills were near the end and I was still going faster than usual there.

Cal Jones

Thanks Big G - we're now doing results on a rota so I should only have to do it once every four or five weeks, although I must say I haven't minded doing it. the main issues are races that don't list clubs in the results or overseas stuff, but I sent a remainder beforehand to tell people to let me know if they'd run anything obscure. Fortunately I don't have to do the tri results, there's another guy for the multisport stuff.

A 7 mile run today and it really has suddenly got cold. I needed tights, sleeves and gloves. Unfortunately, it didn't go as well as I'd hoped. Pace and energy was fine but I'd wanted to run further (10-12 miles); however my hip felt off - kind of clunky and not right, so I decided not to push it. I often have to remind myself that my goal isn't weekly mileage but the actual marathon I'm doing in less than two weeks.

Not sure why the hip felt off - could be down to some of the adjustments I got yesterday, could be something I did in pilates or could be a couple of days sitting on my bum. I'm not overly concerned at this point but I will go see my physio if it persists.
Achilles is still grumpy, of course, but I can live with it for now.

Robert OHara

Shades, just had a look at franfurt, 0% beer at some of the later aid stations could be interesting, spose it's marketed as an isotonic drink.

Cal good luck with the results, I'm going to leave it a bit before I get involved at Ware, dont think there is any pressure to get involved.  Welcome to the bad hip club!

Ian hope the Tuesday legs arent too bad!

Big G, one of my mates his marathon PB is at Kent Roadrunner think Iain ran it this year, 20 odd laps and each lap has a bit of a climb in it, about 1200ft elevation, he has ran MK, London, Manchester and Berlin twice and cant get his head round flat races.  Spose it's different stokes for different folks. 

4.7 (cold) miles today and hip felt stronger and my pace was better than yesterdays 3.6 miles so all in the right direction, tomorrow have dentist before work so may so some s&c before but no run, see how i am thursday but just going to tick over for the time being, maybe try something more at the weekend.  Want to give the 5k a go next wednesday and most importantly be good for the half in 3 weeks.

Debate on our club fb page in terms of club records... all based on gun time which is fair enough but for some reason London marathon is based on chip time, the argument is it can take some time to get over the start line when you are in pens, people are then mentioning other races which take longer than london, anyone else have anything similar? I'd like to see two sets of records one gun and one chip.

Cal Jones

Ah I'm already a paid up member of that club, Rob - after most of last Autumn off with the angry TFL. I've had a prod around and it's that stupid groin/hip flexor thing I've had before (it cropped up during a run in Brockwell Park when I was training for Manchester). I think it may be because I did a Vinyasa flow class on Sunday instead of running and the teacher had us do pigeon pose. Or, as I said before, a lot of sitting recently which has caused it to tighten up.

Big_G

Robert, yeah I suppose we’ve all got our respective strengths and weaknesses. Interestingly, AH says he doesn’t like hills, but yet he won the DD Chip times count for our club records, although a lot of our local races aren’t chip timed (my club organise 5 races and they’re not chip timed). 

Cal, I enjoyed the role too, in the main. I gave it up for a couple of reasons. One was that I got a role on committee which does take up some time, but the main reason really was that the reports had to be done by lunchtime  Monday to make the press, and often after I’d done a marathon myself, I was tired and it became a chore to do the report. We made a rule that we wouldn’t include parkruns (they’re not races and people do all kinds of locations every weekend) and also we wouldn’t include multi sport events, as we’re a running club. 

I walked my 6-mile route this morning. It’s a lovely route and conditions were good for running, but I wouldn’t have enjoyed it if I’d tried to run it today. Walking it was very pleasant though - I did the route on the road around Arthur’s Seat. Legs did feel slightly better after the walk too. 

SHADES

Cal - hope the voodoo does the trick.
Maybe the sore hip is a reaction to the sudden colder weather and not running as relaxed as you might normally do.

Big G - I'm sure it's that long downhill that trashes the quads. In training it would be hard to find such a long stretch of downhill. Sitting on the train for such a long time yesterday wouldn't have helped either.

Ian - DOMS is a small price to pay for such a huge PB.

Robert - a lot of the European races have the alcohol free beer, it's quite nice.

At last that hip niggle seems to be healing.

Interesting about your club records. I would guess they started a long time ago and they've continued with the same format. I think it should be chip times. Gun times are for placing and prizes

SHADES

I'm in my nice hotel in Cork now. They upgraded my room to Business Class as I've stayed here before, it's a corner room and big, might have to wear my glasses if I watch telly from bed.

I left Listowel fairly early as I wanted to stop off on the way for a bit of shopping and coffee etc. I was horrified to find out this morning that there's a big football match this afteroon in Cork. Testimonial match for an Irish player, ROI playing Manchester United and 45,000 fans expected so I didn't stop for too long on the way as needed to get the hire car back 

Just had amazing lunch of bacon and cabbage, I don't know how the Irish cook the mashed potato and the cabbage but divine.

Ian5

Rob-I think all records should be chip timed,unfair to be gun.
Shades-It certainly is worth it,been for a few walks today and seems to be easing a little,hope so as I'm back in work tomorrow.
Seen this while looking at London's website,wonder where the other places will come from for it? Ballot or have they set the GFA to account for less getting in that way.
https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/news-media/latest-news/item/abbottwmm-wanda-age-group-world-rankings-are-launched/

steven renton

Ian- The Mrs doesn’t mind as she says she gets to sunbathe for a few hours in peace without having to listen to me moan it’s to hot all the time.

Shades- Yes Loch Rannoch is on the 16th October. I’m not to confident in regards it as I missed a full 3 weeks training prior to coming on holiday due to work and illness so have not completed to many long runs so I am thinking of just running it to get round and enjoy it. Will be my first marathon I will not get a pb in but I suppose it had to happen sometime.

5 miles today in what was very hot early.

SHADES

Ian - your legs should be a lot better tomorrow.

I see from that link you put up that they say there are 414k entries for 2019 VLM. Good luck getting a place! I skipped through that age rankings bit but didn't see how many actual runners there would be on the champs competition. There might only be say 3 from each age group and they could set them off with the elite I guess. They realise now they can squeeze more runners on the course by starting in waves. 

Steven - you will one day do a marathon that isn't a PB, you'll soon get used to it! My first 7 marathons were PB's, then I did the Cornish.
You're getting some great training in now and just at the perfect time for Loch Rannoch.

Bodmeister

Hi Shades, am I too late to ask for a copy of your marathon training plan? 

Ian5

Steven-Thats good with the Mrs,saves the earache if she wasn't happy.
Shades-It doesn't say how many but if it's spread across 50 events,and they're making a fuss of it i'd guess there's a few in each of the 9 age groups.Looks like I'll have to work hard to get the 10 mins off my time than rely on the ballot.

SHADES

Bodmeister - plan still available. Pm me your email address and I'll send to you.

Ian - it does waffle on a bit without actually saying how it works.
The platinum times are fast. For my age group 3:33,  wheras  GFA time for London 4:30. I already have a GFA time for Chicago I think.

Yes, just keep working on the GFA time for now.

Just having a cuppa before going out for a little run. The discomfort on the side of my lower leg has almost gone, felt like a slight sprain.

Big_G

I'm back home now, after having a day out in Edinburgh yesterday and flying back yesterday afternoon.  I got home at around 8:30pm, so not too bad.

Legs are still sore after Sunday, so I'm undecided whether to run today or not.  I probably won't, unless a walk loosens them up.  After Cornish, I did a 6x1k speed session at the club on the Wednesday and my times/effort was quite good.  No chance of that today!

SHADES

Big G - you certainly have a bad case of DOMS this time. I don't think the waiting at airport, sitting on plane, then driving home helps.

Definitely no speed session for you today.

I had a nice little run this morning, forgot how hilly it is around here. Leg was fine so no injury.

At airport now, having a coffee. Had a very big breakfast at hotel, not sure I'll need to eat again today.

Very warm here this morning.

SHADES

I see 3 runners disqualified at Hull for wearing headphones. Well done to the race organisers.

 One of them, a Hollyoaks actor is complaining as he's never heard of a marathon banning headphones, what an idiot.

Big_G

Shades, just a quick note about a couple of 10ks near us. First Chance 10k opened yesterday and will sell out quickly, especially as the race was cancelled this year. It’s on 20th Jan on a flat and fast course in Exeter. Another, more scenic, 10k race is Stoke Stampede which I believe is 6th Jan and is a very nice event, although entries not open yet. 

Ian5

Feeling quite a bit better today,little ache at the back but nothing to stop me running later.
Shades-I'd seen some had been disqualified and guessed it was for that,it was clearly in the race pack we got so they mustn't have read it,and when he said it at the start he said you will be asked to take them out and if you don't you will be dq'd.im guessing they've took them out when told then put them back in and the next marshal has seem them and that's why they have gone.

Robert OHara

 414k entries for London ballot doesn't give much for than 3-5% of a place, expecting my 9th rejection mag/ezine next month.

Well done the the Hull race organisers, word was they were told and noted by 3 marshalls, in their defense they wouldn't have been able to hear them.....  which again underlines the issue. 2nd place female still banging on facebook about how she feels cheated, has now been hidden from my feed.

Argument re club records is still ongoing, not met the person who is in charge but think he's trying to defend some old records saying it's unfair to discredit their times which were only recorded by gun and not chip.  Our AGM isn't for another 7 months so nothing will be decided now.

A rest day for me as dentist and haircut, will test the hip again tomorrow!

steven renton

I think on those odds for London I’ll be expecting my rejection magazine shortly. 

Went out today with the intention of running up this small mountain/hill that sits at the end of Los Christianos. It’s about 2 miles from where I am staying. It is all trail paths that were so narrow with loose rocks everywhere so to dangerous to run up apart from some little sections, anyway walked and ran when I could it was only about 450/500 metres and 22.6% ave gradient to a plateau halway up so stopped there and what fantastic views of los christianos and Las America’s well worth the effort. So wanted to continue further up but just could not find any paths to take me there. Ended up there and back just over 6 miles. 

Ian5

Looks like I spoke a bit soon earlier,went for a run after work and the right hamstring is really sore,been walking all day on it and couldn't feel it so its not an injury,but when i ran it felt really tight,must be the last bit of DOMS to clear.Did 2.5 miles and walked back as I didn't feel like pushing it yet.

SHADES

Big G - thanks for the info on the 10k's.   I know the First Chance is popular but it's never appealed to me as it's up and down the same road/path.   Might look at the Stoke Stampede, however now that I'm dabbling with the odd shorter race I'm still not sure if I can bring myself to race in January.  I just looked at First Chance and £17 for unaffiliated   

Ian - the Hollyoaks 'actor' also complained about the way the marshal shouted at him, didn't think he should have been treated like that    What a muppet, that was his warning, if he'd had the good manners to remove his headphones to listen to what the marshal said he wouldn't have been disqualified as long as he kept the headphones off.

Here's the article I read  https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/angry-ex-hollyoaks-star-disqualified-2041820

Love his remark “Anyone who is a long distance runner knows you need to get into a rhythm to get a decent time.  But he also says he didn't do any training, I think if he wants to run a decent time a bit of training might help.

Hope that hamstring is OK, might be a slight pull, should clear up in a few days.

Robert - ouch, you've already had 8 rejections from London.    Maybe better to get a charity place, or get cracking on that GFA time.   The one big negative about when they moved to an online ballot was that they had to ditch the automatic entry after 5 rejections.

Re the club records, I reckon they'll change to chip time, don't you?   There wasn't the technology then to do chip timing and if you stick to gun time now there will be many races. as well as London, that a runner can't line up on the actual start line when the gun goes off.  It's not discrediting previous record holder's times by using chip times, they could always note in the records (gun time or chip time).

steven - was that a bit of DD training?    Sounds like you're having a great time and enjoying your running


Had a good trip home, was 22 degrees when I was driving home from the airport, but my flat is chilly so heating on now 

Robert OHara

steven sounds a nice little trek there! 

Ian hope you're running niggle free soon, you wont lose any fitness over 2 weeks so shouldnt impact too much for the marathon

shades I have ran london via charity so not overly concerned about running it again but would like to have another chance.  Our chairman is keen on going chip timing but the guy in charge of the records is stamping his feet, i'm sure there will be many a time it will come up in discussion before the AGM.

will be going out for a run shortly, hoping for 7 miles almost niggle free.

Big_G

Shades, yeah, First Chance is fairly expensive but £14 for affiliated isn't too bad I suppose, as it is chip timed too.  It'll sell out well in advance though - usually it sells out in October for a January race, with a 650 limit, so it gets full very quickly for a local race.  It's a local running club rather than company, so that makes the price a bit easier to stomach in some ways!  Glad you had a good trip back.

Steven, sounds a good run over there.  You've done well to do so much whilst on holiday.

I did no running yesterday and still not sure if I'm going to run today.  I may try a 3 or 4-miler, but I'll decide a bit later.  Legs are much better but still not 100%, so I may wait until tomorrow.  

Big_G

Just realised that Loch Ness was my 20th sub-4hr marathon, so something of a milestone I suppose.  As you may remember it took me until March 2017 to go under 4hrs, so to get to 20 now is quite a surprise, if I compare myself to the start of 2017.  Thinking about it now, that double I did in July where both were under 4hrs is a big indicator that my running has improved I suppose.  However, I've said it before, but that 4hr barrier was more a mental one for me - I really believe I was physically capable of it way before I actually did it.