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Shades Marathon Training

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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - when you mentioned a few days ago you were already on 52, I did wonder what you might be aiming for.    :/    If you don't do it this week, it might be an idea to target a week when the weather is less humid.   High humidity makes it a lot harder, irrespective of meticulous hydration.

    I am not intending to try 100mpw until I have an target event lined up.

    I might get up to 65 this week, not sure yet.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    That's good news about the animals, Big G.
    Also, sort of good news about the races...though not so good about the larger events. I am starting to wonder if we'll even have big races next spring. It's going to be a very long year if we don't.

    Given how niggly my old bod is being, I decided I'd be better off walking than running today. I found another little nature reserve on the other side of Streatham so walked up there, then through a nearby park (nice little park on the side of a quite steep hill...too small for a parkrun but it'd be a challenging parkrun if they did have one) then back to Balham where I had to pick up my washing from the launderette. Five miles total.
    What wasn't good was that I could feel my groin the entire walk (despite the fact I did quite a bit of foam rolling and ball gouging this morning), and that worries me. It's not a bad pain or a new thing but it is a problem and I don't want it to become a worse problem.
    One thing I don't have to worry about is that three mile hilly race - when I checked it turns out it's only for Ranelagh Harriers and I'm not on the entrants list. Which is a bit of a relief given the current state of me.
    On the plus side, I arrived back from my walk to find a mystery package. It turned out to be the T-shirt from the Virtual Tennessee "race", which I'd completely forgotten about. It's bright orange and cotton so I won't be wearing it for runs, but I've stuck it in the regular T-shirts drawer.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Cal - that's a fair walk.   You don't think your groin niggles a bit more walking than running it's easy to  stride out when walking fast, I can't imagine you dawdle when walking.

    More waffle, still hoping for a miracle...

    https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/news-media/latest-news/item/a-message-from-hugh-brasher/index.html

    Edinburgh cancelled, sorry to hear that Cozy

    https://www.edinburghmarathon.com/
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, it's definitely not going to happen this week but as I say I'm not too bothered.  I decided I needed a full rest day today in the end.  Still had two breakfasts though...

    On the positive, we've started harvesting some of our other produce today.  Courgettes, kale and beetroot ready to go now.  Over the last few weeks we've had quite a lot of different lettuce from the garden, but not much else.  A lot of seems to have sprung into life now following the rain with some of the tomatoes starting to appear, along with the beans and peas, different leafy veg doing well etc.  Pretty soon we're going to be inundated with courgettes and also tomatoes.  I think we've got 15 tomato plants so we went a bit overboard with those as they produce very well (we'll get 100s if last year is anything to go by), and the courgettes do very well too.  We've got 6 plants of those I think and we'll get dozens I reckon.  But OH makes chutney so it doesn't go to waste.

    I got some fresh fish delivered from a local supplier, which is very good quality and a good price too.  So we'll be having some of that this evening with the veggies  :)  

    On top of that we've got radish, different chills, pumpkins, squash, cucumbers, strawberries, different lettuces, beans, peas and leafy veg, carrots, parsnips, different herbs and...water melon(!).  It's all doing well, although we have got a blueberry bush that looks like it's not doing anything.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Have you ever done Reykjavic marathon? I seen they are saying it is on so I emailed them and they confirmed it is in,Iceland has a ban on gatherings of 2000 they said,just depends on this stupid quarantine here now,and flights which I've not looked at yet.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - you'll be kept busy munching your way through that lot.   And all so healthy too.   Fresh fish lovely.
    Maybe the blueberries need a year or two.

    I noticed the hedgerows had grown like mad with all the rain too.

    Thanks for the help on the Bluetooth pairing, switched off Bluetooth on my phone and then my PC found the device, took a few tries but eventually successful.

    Ian - no, I haven't, I looked a few years ago and it was too expensive at the time.   But popular with Brits, think quite a few 100MC have done it.
    What date is it?
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-It is August 22nd,think it is generally an expensive place to get to and being there so price may put me off when I look in to it tomorrow.
    Another rest day today,too crazy in work,11 hours so cant be bothered,stuck on 17 this week so need a very long one tomorrow.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - considering all the race and travel costs you've not spent so far this year then perhaps you should treat yourself.  You're in great shape and deserve a chance to do a race.  As does your OH.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Decided to take a rest day today, legs feel fine but I feel a bit tired.   Might be the humid weather.   Have done 63 miles in the last 7 days so I'm happy with that.   :)

    Has anyone on here signed up for that 24hour thing?   I take it the winner is the one that does the most miles in 24 hours and to be a finisher you have to do a minimum of one mile each hour.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I am tempted,will talk to OH today about it,would have to drive to Luton as it's only £85 for direct return,whereas it's about 250 from here with a change.You have to have a test on arrival so that's another cost,but its 2 weeks after my birthday so could be a treat.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - you really do deserve a race so treat yourself.   Think what you would have spent Boston/NY trip etc plus other races.   Hopefully the Covid test won't be too dear, Iceland want their tourists too.

    I guess conditions would be good in August in Iceland for racing.

    £85 is a good price.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    It is about £80,free up until 1st July so it might change,they won't accept proof of one here,despite it being in their initial plans,would be good if that changed.The last few years it has been about 16° and dry so near enough perfect.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    As long as the situation improves here hopefully that price might come down, or they accept a recent UK one.

    That's good conditions   :)  and after running in warmer weather here for training that will feel great.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Shades, that's good news you got the headphones to work.  I just double checked and the 24x1hr event doesn't have any mention of doing as many miles as you can, but I've seen a few people saying they're hoping to do a lot of miles.  I think though that most people are just planning on doing the one mile - that's certainly what I was going to do, and I wouldn't have ran them, I'd have just walked.  I did see that he made a change as initially it was limited to 500, but when I checked a week or so ago it had gone up to 1000.  He must have had a lot of interest!   I also saw that initially people had to email their results to a gmail.com address, but it looks like he's set up a system where people log their own results - I can understand going though 1000 emails is not very efficient for him!  Not sure if/how he checks those results as with approximately 1000 (if that's how many he's sold) it could take a while, or if he just automatically sends out the medals after the event?  I don't know.  I'm glad I didn't enter it - I see people are getting excited about it last night and this morning, but will they be as excited in 24hrs time?!

    Ian, sounds like you've got a plan forming.  I've never been to Iceland as I always thought it was expensive to get there.  I'm pretty sure it is expensive from Bristol but I don't think I've ever looked from Luton.  I'm never flown from Luton, anyway, as it is a bit of a nightmare getting there from here.  Friends of mine went a few years ago when the ash cloud happened but they managed to get back on time.  They really enjoyed it.  OH has been years ago and she loved it there too.

    I'm joining a Zoom call tonight with that Floris Gierman chap from his MAF YouTube channel.  He's very good.  He does have a programme that I think a few people follow (there's a cost, which I haven't looked into).  I think what it is is that many people don't know if/when to start introducing speed work (so I'm not the only one who wonders that!) and I think his plan covers that.  I'm not signing up to his plan as I think I know what I want to do regarding that, when I start.  Basically, if we get back to racing and I do some shorter races, that will mainly be my speed work.  In weeks with no racing I'll either do something like 5x1k, "race" a parkrun or do a tempo run all very much wth 80/20 in mind.  So no "plan" as such, but I am hoping that with running at MAF I will then feel fresher when I do the speed work (edit, damn it - initially I said spadework, again!) properly.

    I was looking back through my training when I felt I was running well through parts of 2018.  Basically, although I wasn't running to HR I was regularly doing training runs at 9:30min/mile or 10s sometimes so I think I was probably in the right ball park.  The main difference is that I didn't walk up the inclines, whereas now I do.  The other main difference is that the pace wold have been more or less even and not taking into account my HR would have been rising towards the end of a run.  I think the mistake I made in 2019 and even early 2020 is that I was training to those kind of 2018 paces (and actually sometimes quicker) when I wasn't at the fitness I had reached in 2018.  In hindsight, I should have dialled the pace back when I came back from my shoulder injury and also that chest infection in terms of slowing down to more of a base training rate, to coincide with what my fitness was at that time.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but that is what I should have done.  Live and learn.  I do feel a bit stupid as I had actually recognised this but didn't really act on it.  From my 3:40 Marrakech time in January I had worked out I was training too quickly - I am pretty sure I said that on here at the time, but I didn't really do anything about it apart from maybe two or three runs at a slower pace.  I think with MAF, if I follow it properly, if I get injured or get ill again, this aspect is in his formula as my HR then should probably be at 132.  Now that is very slow, but the point he makes is that at that rate you can still do some training (even if it means walking more) but it recognises that you've been unwell, rather than ploughing on through like I was unintentionally doing earlier this year.  Anyway, I'm on it now!  
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Big_G said:
    10-miles easy pace today.  I think in hindsight (based on my Marrakech time), earlier this month I was running slightly too quickly for these runs so purposefully dropped it back a bit today.  It felt easy and relaxed, which is good after Sunday.
    Yep, I had recognised I was training too quickly and I did mention it here on Jan 29th, but didn't really do anything about it.  Probably partly why I kept picking up niggles through Feb-Apr!
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Meant to mention about the Floris zoom call as I thought you may be interested in it.
    The only concern I have about Reykjavik is the quarantine here,no mention of Iceland in the travel corridors even though they have very low incidences,probably because it's not a sunny summer resort.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - disappointing that they've not made the virtual event into some sort of running event, so it's just a stay awake event.     He must be raking it in with that overpriced entry fee.   Anyway without it being a competition he won't have to verify the results, I assume it's possible to cheat too but it doesn't really matter under the circumstances as it's not a competition.

    I'm surprised you're not tempted by the marathon in Iceland too  ;)   

    That Zoom call will be interesting, it would be good to have a plan for when you reach the stage that you're ready to move on from only doing MAF paced runs, especially if you have races coming up too.
    Re your comment about training too fast post Marrakech, when runners don't have a 'plan' the tendency is to run fast when you feel good and training ends up being faster than it should, but it's hard to change that without some planning.
    As you say hindsight is a wonderful thing.   Looking back we learn a lot and that's why it's important in our training records that we don't record just stats but how we felt, did run/race feel easy/hard etc and how was recovery.  Often that information is more valuable than stats.

    Ian - yes, the elephant in the room is the 14 day quarantine returning to the UK. 🐘   I can understand Iceland not being mentioned in press reports at the moment with talk of air bridges etc as most are only interested in their summer hols in the sun, Greece, Spain etc.    But surely they would add the smaller countries that are low risk that will welcome tourists too.   


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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I think what happened was I got back into doing regular marathons in around 3:45ish after Marrakech, but did know, deep down, that I wasn't running that well.  I do keep good notes and I was scribbling things like "felt harder than it should have done", etc.  Then I was thinking about the numbers to get to 100 so that was on my mind, whilst also thinking I wanted to get back towards PB shape, even though I knew I was nowhere near that, and it all got a bit muddled.  We've said it before but for me, with no races, lockdown has been a good opportunity to reset a bit and try something different.  I reckon if I had kept going with what I was doing (i.e, if lockdown hadn't happened) I would have been closer to the 100 marathons but I would also have been intermittently injured.

    Anyway, 7.5 miles this morning.  I got rained on again, but not as heavy as the other evening so it was quite pleasant.  I kept the HR where it needed to be but it was a harder effort this morning, but it was nice to be back out after yesterday's rest day.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Shades, don't think you can cheat as you have to upload all your runs. Very glad I am not doing it now (especially as this "niggle" is now an injury).
    I had to pop to the shops so decided I'd walk a bit first. Turned out to be a short walk - groin was pretty bad. So looks like I'm on the bench for a bit. I'm not sure how long - when I really messed up my groin at the end of 2016 and it was so painful I couldn't even cross my legs, I managed to get running again after a month. It's not that bad so hopefully won't be long. Normally I'd go see Toby, my physio, but don't think that's an option at the moment. I'll have to try and minister to it myself.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - You're right, because of our heavy racing habit in 'normal' times we often/rarely get time to train properly and plan our training and when we do any plan is so easily interrupted by injury or illness.

    Depending on what mood I'm in when I'm out running I often think that in the future I'll race less often, then I change my mind and think I might race more often to try and catch up a bit on numbers.   Still not sure.

    I phoned Lufthansa, I'm in the queue for a refund and it will be done in due course, so I'm not going to chase again.


    I should have gone for a run as I've been shopping again, another pair of shoes 😊.  My second pair of Rides, they are lovely shoes and I'm considering using them for races, £49.99 bargain.   :)
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - sorry to hear your niggle has turned into an injury.   Do you know how you did it?  Was this  at your last speedy 5k?

    Re uploading data, data can be amended, I know I can alter quite a lot on Garmin Connect and I'm sure anyone with a bit more IT knowledge could change anything they wanted.

    btw, I don't alter my Garmin data except sometimes the title of the run and I altered the distance on my last marathon as it was at Plym Trail and my GPS cut out going through the tunnel.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Shades, it's funny you should say that about potentially racing less often.  I haven't said it out loud on here as I'm really not sure, but I've been wondering whether to cut right back on the numbers too.  Even if I only do say 12 events a year (just as an example) I'll still get to the 100 at some point and maybe that will be better for me in terms of decent training and getting quicker overall.  I'm not sure though - by the time we're back to relative normality I may be desperate to do any marathon going!  I have said it many times but I do really struggle to get the balance right.  I did 31 marathons in 2018 and that was my best year for marathon times, where as I did a lot less in 2019 and it was a poor year in comparison.

    Cal, it's easy to fake GPX/Garmin files and upload them to Strava.  But why anyone would bother doing that for that 24x1hr event I don't know, but it's easy to do if someone was so inclined.  You can change the date and start time of a run as well as other details fairly easily.  Sorry to hear about your injury :( 
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Cal - Hope your injury gets better. For what it’s worth most physios are happy to do video consultations. Not ideal given the lack of probing around but could be helpful. 

    7 miles this morning at a super slow 10:40. I am still getting nowhere near the sub 10 I managed 3 weeks ago. On the other hand I feel great, zero niggles for the first time ever and my 10 miler tomorrow will make it 44 miles for the week which for me is a lot and probably 2nd or 3rd highest. 
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Cal-Hopefully you have caught it quick and it won't last long.
    Decided to go for 19 today,weird number but fitted for me,a lot less humid than last week and it really made the difference,very controlled all the way through,sped up a bit 13-18.5 but then had 100ft hill in just under half mile and it's a beast,the worst part is that at the end it gets twisty and turny and it's hard to get in to a rhythm,got it done though.
    Our virgin flights to LA in september have today been cancelled,really hoping I can get a refund as that will be £2k of vouchers hanging around with April's also gone.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Rcouture - I don't have a webcam or mic and I don't use a smartphone so video is out. But what I really need is what my physio normally does which is stick his elbow in bits of me which, obviously, isn't an option right now. I'm doing my best with my theragun, roller and hockey balls but it's not the same.
    Shades - possibly. I've had a niggly groin off and on for years - it's the same thing I injured doing squats in the gym. The 5K felt fine but it's got steadily worse since then.
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    Cal - have you tried contacting your physio? Mine is practising again.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - nothing wrong with an odd number for a change. Good to have a decent run after suffering a bit last week in the high humidity.
    Shame about your USA trip, are you going to try and rebook?.  If not you definitely don't want vouchers for that value.

    Big G - I think I will wait and see if/what changes there might be to our races.  I may do less I'll see.   I've already got 6 races entered for next year as they are deferred from this year.

    I thought it was easy to doctor training data, some habitual cheaters on Strava I remember hearing about, don't know why they bother, only cheating themselves.

    Rcouture - that's great to be near your highest mileage and not feeling any niggles, that's also a sign you are getting stronger as well as fitter.  Any news on Brighton now that London aren't doing an update until end of July?

    Cal - that sounds quite painful.   Apart from your physio's hands on treatment can you remember the rest of the rehab that you can do at home?

    Took ages to clear up my groin injury, but mine was different to yours as I could walk pain free.

    LMH - I hope you're not injured too?


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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - Total radio silence from Brighton apart from the usual adverts for stuff. I’ve mentally chalked it off so would be a positive surprise if it happened. 
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-We are planning on going again next year,but it's a long time for them to have our money,and looking at their prices for next year we may not use them.
    Our last guy ran his 5k TT tonight, finished in 18:49,quite a bit slower than expected as he normally beats me but I beat him by 50s this time.It was a good excuse for a speed session though and to go sub 18 solo was great.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I'm just doing the usual glute stuff plus some adductor work with a band. It's funny as I can walk around my flat no problem, but it was pretty unpleasant walking to the shops. As you say, I probably stride out a lot more.
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