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Shades Marathon Training

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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - That’s annoying (especially with the hog roast 😭) is it the hip flexors? Re the Novas was it the 1s that gave you blisters? Hope you like the cloudsurfers!

    WFH yesterday so managed 6 miles in my happy place in the common. HR was rock bottom as always over there, albeit at a slow pace. Planning my second interval session on Sunday which I’m surprisingly looking forward to. Will try 10x 2min on/1min off versus 10x 1min last week. Hoping to progress by keeping similar paces but lengthening the interval rep every week until my half in 4 weeks which I’d like to aim for a PB at. Including warmup and cool-downs these sessions are >13miles so should hopefully double up as enough long runs for the half too. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - no, not hip flexors.   On the side of my buttock.  I have googled the injury, thought it may have been piriformis but it's not, done all the tests.   No other symptoms match any of the other usual named injuries and have done hip flexor and hip rotation stretches and not a twinge.  Used a tennis ball for a couple of minutes, ouch, but that hurts even if there's no injury.  Pain has eased a bit now but that may be the painkillers.

    Yes, Nova 3's gave me the blister, from photo you can see the heel tab has worn through.   Checked my race socks and looks like they've been protecting me fairly well but rough patch developed on the heel of each sock too.   Fortunately, due to my slight hoarding habit, I have a pair or two of new race socks tucked away. 

    Looking forward to trying the Cloudsurfers, might get them today as they're with the courier.   I ordered them from Wiggle, same price as direct from ON.    I ordered the black, although I like the other colours better, I'm hoping they will suit me enough for racing and the pale colours will get grubby.

    The good thing about intervals is that  1 or 2 minute efforts don't seem so daunting, at least until you get near the end of the session.   ;)

    What date is your half?
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - Hackney Half on the 21st of May. Re the intervals presumably with the recoveries it’s ok to just walk/slow jog those? They’re only a minute so have to do that to get the HR right down. 
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Sorry about the potential DNS Shades :( 

    OH was out last night so I watched all of the Boston and London marathons.  I know how to live it up, don’t I!?  I knew the results of course but I’m glad I saw them. 

    Met up with a mate yesterday lunchtime for a post-London debrief.  He did well for this first ever marathon (he’s 61 and did 4:10), trained mainly on the treadmill, and also trained too quick. I tried to tell him but…. :) He did the virtual last year so knew he could do the distance. He’s pleased he’s done it but he didn’t like the crowds or noise, although he’s entered the ballot for next year, but knows he probably won’t be lucky again. He didn’t have to go to the expo as his daughter picked his number up for him and he stayed with her for the weekend. 

    Going to try a run in a bit. 
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    1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Rcouture - For your recoveries, do whatever you need to hit the paces in your main interval. If I have 60 second recoveries, I normally try to walk the first 30 seconds and then slow jog the last 30 seconds, but if you need to walk the 60 seconds then do that, the key is hitting the pace on the 2 minutes.

    Sports massage yesterday, hopefully has sorted out the quad soreness.
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Steve - Cheers that makes sense. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - yes. As Steve has said.

    Big G  - good you feel ready to run today. 

    Probably my main hate about London marathon is the noise.   Last 2 times I actually wore ear plugs but didn't help at all.   I'm sure you've pointed out to your friend that there other marathons he can do.   Good he's keen to do another. 

    I enjoy watching marathons even if I know who's going to win as it's how it's done that interests me.    Really enjoyed watching London, great racing from men's and women's winners.    And although Mo wasn't as fast as before I think he ran a good race, not faffing around in his prima donna fashion like he used to.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    New shoes out for delivery this afternoon.   :)


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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited April 2023
    Shades, I hadn’t picked up before I saw the coverage that Yuki Kawauchi was the fastest from the masses, finishing in 2:13!

    Just done 4 miles. HR very high for the pace, but that will drop hopefully over the coming days. Hopefully 6-7ish tomorrow, including a jog around parkrun. 

    Edited to add, I’m also half a stone heavier than when I travelled to NYC, and I wasn’t ‘racing weight’ then!  Hopefully that’ll come off over the coming weeks! We were actually pretty good over our break, and didn’t really over indulge, but eating out all those days had an impact, plainly. 
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, are you making a display of your 6 star medals?  Just seen this which is very nice. 

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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G   - Yes I  saw Yuki Kawauchi finishing in his usual style.   I wonder why they make him run with the masses?  Of course he isn't liked by those that don't accept he can run several marathons a year and run them well.

    Good your run went OK, your weight gain might have contributed a bit to the higher HR 
    ;)  I'm sure you'll lose it quickly back to training and usual routine.

    New shoes have arrived, very comfy, itching to try a run in them.  Don't like the laces so will put elastic ones on.

    Great service from my nice Evri delivery guy, box was marked 2 day delivery but despatched yesterday. 

    It's a while since I ordered anything from Wiggle, pleased to see they still do this little freebie 


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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I read it is because London say you can't run another marathon a certain time frame before London and he did.
    Big G-I am doing something,I've got the official pic frames from most,with an extra medal and time etc, so I'm getting all 6 finished with the 6 star medal in the medal,just need to get round to finishing it.
    First run tonight since London,going to go with OH.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - that is a daft ruling by London marathon.   I'm so pleased Yuki Kawauchi ran so well and showed London how pathetic their rules are.

    What's next for you marathon or ultra wise?   Are you doing Lancaster in July?  
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - That’s great service, hope you like the shoes!

    Getting quite concerned at this charity still not confirming our Berlin places after all this time. It’s now been 3 months and they’ve had all manner of excuses to fob us off, from waiting to hear back from Berlin, to an internal audit, to the lady in charge having an operation on her eye. There’s clearly something untoward going on as no one is that incompetent and strangely I know of someone else who has been approved already. The issue if they eventually come back telling us we haven’t got a place for whatever reason is that there aren’t options now as tours and other charities seem largely full. I still have my Chicago place but the aim was to do this with some buddies. 

    7 miles after work around the common this eve. Pretty warm out so sweated buckets. Eldest birthday party tomorrow so will take a rest day before workout Sunday. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture  - re Berlin charity place, that doesn't sound right.    No wonder you're concerned. 

    Have you paid money for the entry?  Can you find another charity place?  Someone I know was applying through timeoutdoors website,  think she said it was £1k to raise, don’t know if she did get the place or not though as haven't seen her.

    Good luck with the party, you'll need all your stamina for that.  ;)
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-Was that the charity I recommended? If so I'm really sorry,my mate didn't seem to have any issues.
    Shades-I've no idea to be honest,I'm in a bit of a rut at the minute,won't do the 6 hour in June,don't think I'm fit enough.There is Lancaster in July or a 6/12 hour race the weekend before my birthday that I've bookmarked.
    7 done,pace as slow as expected but kept my HR low ,OH ran late so I went on my own.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - easy to lose your mojo when your key race(s) done and dusted and no other events entered.

    You can still do the 6 hour in June, you don't actually have to keep going for the full 6 hours.   Check the race rules, usually you can stop any time you like and the race mileage still counts as your final total.  Might give you a taste of what to train/aim for if you do the August 6/12 hour.   It's a different mindset when there isn't a defined distance to complete.

    My hip feels a good bit better today.   Am walking down town this morning so will see how it is, but probably foolish to run tomorrow.   Could just have done with another day to recover.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, that is an odd thing from London. Yuki is a legend. I just did a bit of Googling and it seems you may be right. Yuki tweeted this after the race - you’ve got to use a translation but it seems he was expecting an elite start, but due to some 30 or 60 day rule he was put in the masses. Ridiculous decision. 

    Also, just saw this :) 

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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G  - truly a daft rule by London.   I wonder if it's to try and stop any of the elites running  Boston and then London.    What would they have done if Kipchoge had asked for a London entry. 🥱
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    6 miles this morning including parkrun. HR still very high - I’ve definitely made the right decision getting rid of my NDVM place as I feel that would be a big trudge and not very pleasant!
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - it would have been a trudge for me too with an iffy hip, so know it's sensible to stay home. 

    But I'm sorry to be missing the gorgeous course and the hog roast at the finish.  😋

    Haven't taken any painkillers today and I can barely feel the hip niggle, so on the mend.

    Will do a short run in my new shoes tomorrow. 
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Well I'm back...Well done all London runners.

    Shades, sorry to hear about the hip niggle and the DNS - very disappointing. But at least you are on the mend. I did want to ask about the Novas, actually... Since none of the Nike shoes seem to fit the bill for a long run shoe, I am looking at other brands. How do you find the fit, size-wise?

    That is a daft rule but Yuki seemed to take it in his stride.

    Rcouture, that's frustrating about Berlin. Hope it's sorted soon.

    I got back Thursday tea time and did a sluggish four miles yesterday, then Fulham parkrun today (club social) Lovely weather but I was tired when I woke up and didn't have a lot of energy for the run either so I didn't have much change from half an hour. Despite not running since my Dutch parkrun last week, I have done a fair amount of walking, plus there was a weird 3D maze/art installation in Tillburg which featured lots of wonky surfaces, ladders, things to climb up and over...and that definitely irritated my niggly groin although it was a lot of fun.
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    Cal looks like you had fun on your trip.

    shades sorry to see a DNS tomorrow, hopefully on the mend. I probably had the wrong date originally Fox Ultra on on the Saturday 27th May.

    Rcouture hopefully nothing untoward with the Berlin spot and the charity.

    Big G defo sensible decision to transfer, you don’t need the marathon for numbers and need time to recovery.

    Ian worth just getting something in the diary, perhaps a run round with the OH, places still available for the London ultra with Cal, Keith and myself. 

    Quiet week running wise, Tuesday was a run to and from the club and buddied at the beginners 
    Course.  Then nothing until 8.5 miles today, new shoe day saucony guides 8 ready for halstead.  

    Also had my final mark back for my degree and 1st Class classification confirmed.  
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Welcome back Cal, sounds like you enjoyed your holiday. 

    I find the  Novablasts true to size,  I have sometimes had to go up half a size in other shoes but not these.  The version 3 I find slightly roomier in the toe box, but a only a very slight difference.

    I'm going back to the version 2's for racing as the 3"s have given me a blister. 


    Robert - congratulations on your First Class degree all that studying was worth it.🙂  I don't know how you managed it whilst working as well. 

    I'll correct the date of the Fox Ultra next week. 

    New shoes, lovely. 

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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Wow Rob, congrats! (Those shoes look nice but they won't stay that colour for long!)
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rob-Brilliant news on the degree,well done and congrats.
    Big G/Shades-Bad luck on the DNS but sounds like it's clearly the right decision.
    Shades-If I was to do the 6 hour,I'm thinking 40 miles is realistic,how would you pace it? Do you need much of a time banking for food.
    Also Big G-Did you do a 6hr? How far if so.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, I did 33 miles. I had fallen over at an LDWA event and hurt my ribs three days prior, so I took it really steady as anything faster jolted my ribs. I was thinking about 40 miles, give or take, was more achievable if I was in good shape.  
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2023
    Ian - as you know from doing a track marathon you won't be able to rely on your Garmin to measure the distance as they over measure on a 400m track.  So best to schedule your drinks and food by time.   Usually there will be water provided by the organiser track side.   There should be tables where runners can leave their own supplies.   So you can make up bottles of your preferred sports drink and maybe alternate that with the water provided.   How often you drink is your choice.   If for instance you choose every 30 minutes but the weather turns out to be hot then switching to every 20 minutes might be better.   

    Your food requirements won't change if it's hot, in fact it can be harder to eat in hot conditions so keep the portions small and pre prepared so you just pick it up and get back on track.   Easiest way to eat is to walk whilst eating, so you may end up walking half or even a full lap once an hour which time wise won't make that much difference, it will also be beneficial for your legs.    It's unlikely in a 6 hour that you will change direction, as you do in a 24 hour and 12 hour events, so a brief walk once an hour will help avoid niggles from the repetition of running in the same direction and cadence for 6 hours.   For a 6 hour, eating once an hour should be adequate, you'll be getting some fuels (sugars) and electrolytes from your sports drink.  Take a selection of food you really like and take something savoury too, so easy to not want sweet stuff near the end of the event.
    (At Connemara I robbed a marshall of a handful of crisps at 23 miles as I couldn't face anything sweet).

    Don't forget the Factor 50, tracks can be very hot and without shade.   ;)

    Re pacing, I would suggest setting off about 30 seconds a mile slower than you would if you were running a marathon that day.   You can't expect to run the whole 6 hours at the same pace, it's normal to slow in the latter stages.   


    4 miles this morning in my new On shoes.  Very light and comfortable and also the soles are really quiet on the roads, good for burglars I guess  ;)    Slight feeling in hip when I did a few leg swings pre run but OK running until 2 miles so turned back then but even by the time I finished it was no worse than 1/10 so I think almost healed.  :)
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Thanks for those tips,30s is actually quite good as that puts me about 8m/m which is 2 mins a lap so easy to work out.
    I was well impressed with my watch at London,it measured 26.3 miles at the end and no I didn't cut anywhere off 🤣
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Well done, Big G...look after those ribs (though to be fair, there's nothing you can do for injured ribs except wait it out).

    Ian - that's surprising as GPS usually goes nuts around Canary Wharf (whenever I've done the Big Half, it's always come in a lot over distance due to that and the tunnel, which thankfully isn't included in the marathon course).

    Shades, good news on the shoes and the hip.

    I ran 12 miles today. I was going for 10 but the route I took (Wandle Trail and then home via Mitcham) got me to 10 miles a way from home so I carried on. Lovely blue skies, blossom and birdsong. The downside is that (as I thought I'd just do 10) I went out fasted and without water, so I started to run out of gas and dehydrated a bit during the last two miles. Of course it is getting warmer now so I will have to start carrying water again on my medium as well as long runs.
    I also thought I'd give the Invincibles another go over the distance but they started rubbing my big toe 8 miles in and, despite looking very plush, my forefeet got a little tender towards the end. So they are definitely not going to do for long distance...shorter, recovery and easy runs only.
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