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Shades Marathon Training

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    LoueyLouey ✭✭✭
    Shades - I didn't have time to do a recovery run yesterday but did a 5k this morning and it was absolutely fine. Quads are sore but nothing too problematic and I have a massage booked for tomorrow. I'm debating what else to do this week - possibly 4/5 miles on Thursday? 

    I also need tips from those of you who have done Loch Ness and recommendations for places to eat (bearing in mind we are all going so there will be 5 of us). We are flying up on Friday evening and we will have a car so if the weather is bad on Saturday we can drive somewhere.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Great report, Louey!  Well ran and congrats to your sister. I think one odd thing with Stockholm is that I believe they start at midday and as it’s in June it can be hot. Certainly that was the case this year. 

    Shades and I met one year in Inverness on the Saturday before the race at a fish and chip place. It’s slightly out from the centre of town and wasn’t busy although from memory I think we had booked a table. Can’t for the life of me remember the name of it though, although I expect Shades can.  Other than that I haven’t got any specific recommendations. The B&B I stayed in the twice I’ve done it had a great breakfast though and one time heated up the Baxter’s soup for me for lunch that was in the goodie bag, as I was absolutely starving!

    One tip for Loch Ness, although this may have changed since I did it. When I did it, baggage was left outside, not really covered over properly. Possibly take a bin liner or similar to put your bag in so it keeps any change of clothes dry. 

    Are you using the bus to get to the start?
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    LoueyLouey ✭✭✭
    BigG - thank you! I will remember the bin liner. Yes, I'm getting the bus - I don't think you have a choice if you are staying in Inverness. It does seem as though there will be quite a wait from the time you get to the start before the actual race start, not sure what I'm going to do with all that time (apart from probably go to the loo multiple times). 

    I've just looked at the start time for Stockholm and you are right. That is a strange start time! Will need to google historic temperatures to see what it might be at that time of year. 
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    LoueyLouey ✭✭✭
    Actually, it's not too bad. Obviously there are a few years when it's warmer but most years it would be fine.  


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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2023
    Louey - fabulous report.   You have such an amazing memory for details of every aspect of the marathon. 

    Well done again, another well paced marathon.   Your sister had a brilliant run and a big PB.

    Good you've done your recovery run and your legs feel OK.   Yes, an easy run on Thursday would be a good idea. 

    Re Loch Ness,  the bus to the start takes about an hour.  Some of the buses don't have toilets on board so hold off with the fluids until you are on the bus.   You have a long wait at the start, there are toilets there but nothing else, it's in the middle of nowhere.    There's no shelter there either and it can be very cold.    You can take a bag to the start but have to put that on a truck to be taken to the finish.    I take some warm (old or charity shop) clothes to wear at the start as the wind can be very cold there.    The first  3.5 to 4 miles are a very gentle downhill so a very comfortable start to the marathon.    Then there are some shortish undulations which comes as a bit of a shock to the legs.   The route then goes alongside Loch Ness and you follow that for most of the marathon,  very scenic.   I forget exactly, I think about 19 miles there is a hill, this is not THE HILL, but a prelude to it.   Once you get up the hill then you're on the road back into Inverness and flat.   Once onto the edge of the River Ness, you can see race HQ and the  finish on the other side of the river.    Unfortunately you have to run up alongside the river over the bridge and down the other side to the finish.   Roads are closed except for the odd car for most of the route.  Coned off as you get back into the city and some traffic. 

    My favourite pre marathon meal is fish and chips, which is why Big G  and I went to Lorrimers, a sit in chippie on Longmans Road.   Generous portions,  within walking distance of the city centre, there is parking there.   
    There are plenty of places to eat if that's not your preference. 

    Big G - you're not allowed to drive to the start.   However, one year Dave Ross and Mel overslept and missed the buses.  As it was Mel's 200th, not running was not an option so he managed to find a taxi to take them to the start.  Cost Dave £50 and that was about 10 years ago.


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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    I've heard good reports of Stockholm too.
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    LoueyLouey ✭✭✭
    Are you telling me that's a marathon you haven't done Shades?  :D

    The race profile has a hill between miles 18 and 19. But what is "THE HILL"?? Is that later? There doesn't seem to be much of a hill later on. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Louey - there are a lot of marathons I haven't done.   If I like a marathon I want to do it again and again.   I am very fond of Ireland and when I was working I would travel to Irish marathons up to 8 times a year. 

    Never done a race in Scandinavia, did enter a 24 hour indoor race in Finland once but had flu 2 weeks before so had to cancel. 

    There's a 50/100k in Stockholm that I'd like to do, August I think. 

    Yes, that's the hill, I couldn't remember exactly where it was.   There's a  gentler hill just before it and everyone says, that was OK, and then realise that that wasn't 'the hill '.   It's not that steep or hard, what makes it challenging is that it's at the stage of the race when many runners start to slow and tire.

    It's a very fast course, think I've done my 4th/5th fastest time there.

    A running friend did his first sub 3 there.  At the Expo others were telling him he wouldn't do it because it wasn't a fast course and there was a hill.  I told him he would do it and he sailed around in 2:56.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I did a fast for me time at Loch Ness, but I’ve never been so tired after a race, and had to go back to the B&B to rest for quite some time. Just found my report on here and although I loved the event, my report ends “A great day out, but I’m broken (not injured, just tired)!”. I think I lost about 3-4 mins in the last 3 miles that day. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - that must have been a tough last few miles, especially with the stretch up to the bridge in the last mile.

    I just checked my race list and my 5th fastest time was at Loch Ness.  I've done the race 8 times.  The air quality is very good up there too, I guess that must make a difference too compared to polluted city races.

    Gym this morning and I didn't recognise the place.   All new shiny machines and equipment.   They've not finished yet, I think the machines are taking a lot longer to put together than maybe anticipated.   But I was able to wander round and try some of the new machines and I'm very impressed.   I tried out the glute machine, on a very low weight as it slightly niggled my knee.   Then when I left the gym and walked down to Asda, my glutes were on fire.   That's worn off now thankfully, don't want a serious case of DOMS right now.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Good news the gym is modified with decent equipment, Shades. How are you feeling about Barnstaple?  It’s your first marathon for quite some time (over 5 months), which I guess is quite unusual for yourself. 

    My cycling fitness is on the up, even if my running fitness is down the pan.  I know for me cycling fitness doesn’t translate to running but I got back into Category B on Zwift the other day, which is progress in that regard. Doing a fair bit on Zwift still, and have a TTT this morning. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I'll have to get a new programme now for the gym.  They've spared no expense, all new benches, racks, dumbbells, weights as well as the machines.  Never used a flash machine before that counts reps for you  :lol:

    Not confident about Barnstaple at all, had a very bad run this morning and knee started to niggle so had to stop after 2 miles and walk for a mile then I ran the last 2 miles home slowly.   Really I should DNS and probably all my races for the rest of the year.  I was a bit concerned about any time limit at Barnstaple, as I would probably need a 6 hour time limit, the race details don't specify but it does say event from 9-4, which is 7 hours.   I don't think time is an issue as now it's organised by a charity and fund raising encouraged it will be about finishing for the fund raisers.

    But at the moment I'm still planning to run, I know that if it all goes wrong I'll be back in Barnstaple at 13 miles so an easy option to DNF.   


    That's good news on your cycling fitness, all improvements in fitness are a step in the right direction.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    That’s a real shame Shades. Are you considering DNSing the other UK races and maybe put everything into getting around at Frankfurt?  Or would you rather not do that?  I just had a look actually and Abingdon isn’t sold out yet, but if it sells out you can possibly transfer your place for that one at least. Tough to know what to do in these situations!

    Going back to Berlin I saw a few YouTubers didn’t meet their goals. 2 missed out on sub-2:20, Nick Bester and Matt Fox. Nick said no real excuses, he has been busy and just didn’t have it. Matt mentioning cramps again. Matt Rees (Welsh Runner, the chap who helped that runner over the line at London a few years ago and got some coverage on BBC etc) was hoping for 2:24 but went 2:31, seems to be suggesting he’s going to back off the marathons for a while. Floris, the low HR guy, did 2:57 but was hoping for better, although in fairness he has had a calf injury that did impact his race quite a lot. This marathon game can be brutal!

    Getting excited about Chicago now.  Will start packing (and repacking, and repacking….) in the next few days. Flying out next Thursday. Genuinely no idea what time I’ll do. I may amaze myself and end up beating Boston’s time, but that seems genuinely vey unlikely at this point. Or because of the foot I may end up walking a lot and be 5hrs. We shall see. Just need to get it done and enjoy the weekend. 

    Got the race info through yesterday. If I don’t drop a bag my corral is 8-10mins walk from my hotel!  Brilliant compared to Boston where I was 2hrs+ away!  If I do drop a bag it will be longer as I have to go into the park and back out again. Forecast looks like it could be fairly warm but it’s a 7:30am start (need to be in corral by 7:20) so could be cold at that time, so I’ll decide about all that when I’m there. 

    Chicago merch doesn’t look too good, in my opinion. I do need a new lightweight jacket for everyday use, so possibly the jacket is okay but the rest I’ll be giving a miss I think. There is a finishers shirt, so hopefully that will be nice at least. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2023
    Big G - I kind of need to try Barnstaple as a test for my other races, and to make any decisions after that.

    I will probably ditch Abingdon as I'd need a sub 5:15 to have a registered result and I still 'count' my marathons.  I have a refundable hotel booked for Abingdon so would only be the entry fee.   Not bothered about the entry fee, there are still 80 places left so unlikely I'd be able to transfer in time, and I won't be spending on the petrol that weekend.

    Going back to lost costs on races, hotels etc.   I booked my IOM hotel through Booking.com and knew I was liable for the first night as I cancelled late.   But I've never been charged, I did contact the hotel first before I'd contacted Booking.com and I can only assume as I'm a regular customer of the hotel that they've decided not to charge me.   :)


    I've just been reading that it's a €205 entry fee for Berlin next year, shirt, chip and baggage would be extra.   What a rip off.  But very effective hype about the Majors.


    How long are you in Chicago for?   Nice shirts, bit understated.  If you do buy a shirt, opt for the blue, or any other colour than white.   The white are nice but in synthetic materials they don't stay white and then look grubby and you might want to wear it for a few years.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    5 nights, Shades. Yeah, I thought the same about the white items - I’d definitely avoid those!
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - 5 nights is just about the right amount of time IMHO.
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    Shades - The Berlin registration is a complete rip-off indeed. I’ve still just entered the lottery for next year anyway 🫣. Hope you’re ok for Frankfurt, I know you’ve been looking forward to it. 

    Big G - That’s great that you’re so close to the start. To be honest I found the whole bag drop process and corrals well organised and straightforward. Can’t even recall queuing for anything. Interesting re all those YouTubers struggling when conditions were pretty good. 

    Legs coming around. Think will still leave it to Sunday for a first run back. 
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture, you can add these to your entry for next year ;) 

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    80 euros for a teddy. Blimey, hope it cooks and cleans. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture/Big G  - I saw those extras that you could buy with your Berlin entry. 😝  

    They're not even running related.    I'm sure runners would be more interested in runners goodies. 

    I thought the entry fee for Dublin last year was pricey at roughly 105 euros.  But we got 2 goody bags with lots of stuff, mostly food.  And a long sleeved top.  No charge for chip or baggage. 
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-But you do have to pay for the lottery even if you don't get in 😉
    They tried to flog me 6 star coins at Tokyo,I politely declined.I'm actually surprised they don't have more 6* gear,I struggled to find my tshirt,and I'd have happily paid for a jacket or similar.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I’ve stuck my name in the lottery, eeeking out my one good time, as my Seville time is still in their window for corrals. I want to do it again.  
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian  - do you mean for Dublin?  It was only 3 euro if you were unsuccessful.  

    I think it's a good idea as it stops time wasters such as they get with London.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes,I remember we have had a discussion about it the last couple of years.
    I'm also in for Berlin,we are doing the team option so either both of us get in or none.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - that's good they're still doing the team option at Berlin. 

    I suppose London don't do that so the 2nd runner would have to take up a charity place for them both to run. 
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Berlin is the only major that does that as far as I can see.
    Not checked yet,but someone in our club has said that NYC is $500 now 😢
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-It is 5:29 for Boston,so close mate,unlucky.
    OH has missed out also,we took out the insurance as I'm not doing it alone so we only.lose the $20
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I think one thing I can say with certainty is that the way the majors are set up are very different to each other.  How to get a place, how a ballot may work, how many qualification places there are and what the qualification process is, how many charity places are available and how they’re allocated/organised, team options, percentage of lottery/qualification in the race, how they attract elites, prize money available etc etc. I’m sure they all look at each other and see what each is doing (pretty sure a couple of the race bosses were in Sydney recently for the marathon there), but they’re all quite different in how they’re set up. If anything I’d say London, on balance, is probably the hardest for people to get into, certainly those outside of the UK. Even if you’re in the UK and can run a time, others can be easier to get a place at. Chicago is probably the easiest if you’ve got a qualifying time as the time needed isn’t especially tough for me, and you’re guaranteed a place if you get the time, regardless of if you’re a US citizen or not (very different to London). Details of things like race day logistics differ wildly as well.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cross post, that’s gutting, but actually a bit less than what I was expecting. Going to be quite a lot of chat about that I reckon. I wonder if they’ll tighten the qualification standards for the following year, or wait and see if this was a one off surge (post Covid surge?), keeping in mind that for 2023s race there was no cut off. 
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    Ian - Ah that’s a shame for us but sensible of you to get insured. 2025 it is. Who knows if my 3:01 will be good enough at that stage with the way things are going so I’d best get that time down! So Spring looking like Seville and small chance of London GFA. Still not made up my mind on doing Valencia this December. Feels a bit early and at this stage I’d like sub 3 to be if not comfortable, not a big stretch goal like Berlin. Feels like I’d benefit more from a nice stretch of winter base building. Anyone done both Valencia and Seville to compare (in terms of PB potential)?
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