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Marathon on 3 runs per week.
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Thanks for the spreadsheet. I read this article with interest and think I'll definitely give this schedule a go (with a few tweaks). I'll be interested to follow your progress on this thread.
It's interestng mind, that there was an article in last months (or the one before that) RW which said that "junk" miles weren't junk and some study had proved that. You pays your money and takes your choice I suppose.
BR - I got my hands on Bill Adcocks' book at the weekend:
"Relationship between best 5000m and average 5km in fastest marathon. Bill Adcocks 1 minute 10 seconds, Paul Tergat 1 minute 58 seconds." Probably less than 60s a mile!
I wonder if he bothered tapering and taking a 5000m race seriously, or trained through them?
To pluck 2 runners out of the air, I have a 1 mile pb of 4:59 and am aiming for 6m/m in a marathon. John Mayock would probably run just over 4 mins for a mile right now, and ~ 2:15 would not be an unreasonable marathon expectation.
As a matter of interest, how do your times match up?
3k 8:53
5k 15:37
10k 32:08
10M 53:00
HM 71:02
Mar 2:30:31 5:50
I'm liking that suggestion!
The standard analysis to measure the fit is to plot log(time) against log(distance), measuring time in decimal minutes. Logs in any base, as long as consistency between the two.
The plot on excel scatter chart, and calculate the trendline. The gradient is interesteding, but the R-squared value much more telling as to the validity of the trend.
My figures are 1.0731, which isn't bad given the normally quoted 1.07 or 1.08. The r-squared = 0.9999 shows the relationship is very close.
4:23 1500m PB 4:42 mile time (roughly)
9:20 3000m (5:00)
15:55 5000m (5:07)
26:50 5 miles (5:22)
34:23 10000m (5:32)
57:13 10 miles (5:43)
77:42 HM (5:56)
However, 1500, 3k, 10k, and HM PB could all quite easily be revised. In fact in my last 5k race I think I did beat my 3k PB at the 3k mark. HM was in awful conditions and had stomach upsets, 10000 was in hot conditions and a while back, 1500 is just old. 5 mile by a small amount at least as it was done on a net uphill course.
However unfortunately a minute and 14 seconds between best mile pace and only HM pace! There goes my theory on being well aerobically developed.
Just to try this with my mate
best 1500m time : 3:57 (4:15)
best HM: 1:19:40 (6:05)
ouch, almost 2 minutes between 1500 and HM.
Bobby- yes he does tend to and this could be the cause of it. I think unless he devotes more time to running he will eventually be found out. At the moment the fact that he just trains so much is keeping him ahead as he's so much better aerobically and physically developed. His triathlon training probably has him doing the equivalent of a 60-70 mile week. However, now people are getting older and are willing to run 60-70 mile weeks like Geele and lads like Hardy who are coming on strongly, whilst Hickey used to beat them comfortably, they're getting the benefits that Hickey already has and as the training is specific it's doing them more good. He's not made much progress over the last few years really. Ran a 32 minute 10k I think 2 years ago and now only mid 31s.
That said, he's still a superb athlete and talent and could so easily choose to just run and take some of the pure runners apart.
Thanks for the excel sheet, that's saved me a lot of number crunching and headaches.
It's also made me feel a little easier about the paces for the long runs as I was worried they were too fast for me but a quick scan of your calcs shows a long run target time that is equal to my current half marathon pace.
Just out of interest will anyone be blogging their progress with FIRST? I plan to but my training wont start until May as the mara is in September.
However, having plugged my times into your speradsheet the speedwork seems really quick. Would you think this is best suited to someone who is naturally quick and wants to build an endurance base?
As a lad doing a lot of trackwork those mile splis would have been easy. Now, as a plodder I am not so sure. I've calculated my pace off a 5 miler XC where I raced over 30 secs a mile faster than any recent training and I have not been doing any speedwork.
I've always felt the key running sessions in any marathon programme were the hard ones and I hope to be proved right but I suspect, like others, it may turn running into a bit of a chore. Hope not.
If you post your e-mail address I'll send it to you to upload (or you can e-mail me your e-mail address, but you'd have to wait until this evening before I can access my home e-mail!).
And if RW are in need of any Excel work doing, particularly around management information, just let me know..
Tried the 5 mile tempo run today. A question: with the FIRST emphasis on pace, what do we go for? Consistent pace or average over the whole run? I ask because the middle (trail) section of my run was bedevilled by ice and snow trodden into interesting but ankle-wrenching shapes by dog walkers, child walkers, pleasure walkers et al (and I'm not criticising them). I added between 18 secs and 56 secs a kilometre during the mid three kilometres; way slower than the goal pace.
But I finished in 40 minutes, which is spot on.
What's the idea? Find a safe but boring road route?
I like to do my long runs mainly on footpaths, I thought that depending on how bad/muddy the surface is. That I should add time to the target pace, Is this right and if so how much?
Sean - thanks for the spreadsheet, was halfway through the calcluations, giving myself a headache before I downloaded. Now all taht is left is to actually do the times....
I am following the 'FIRST to the Finish' schedule and did my club run tonight as my 7 mile Tempo run. This was run at Long Tempo (LT) pace which is 10k pace +30 secs so 8:00 min miling for me. There were a few hills in it and it was a good run that actually mapped out to 7.5 miles.
Rest day tomorrow for me and 15 miles on Saturday.
Since Dubin, I've only run a few times but am finding myself feeling really fresh and fit. I'm thinking: 1x speed or hill sesh, one time 5-8 mile fartlek and 1x long run might see me through next time (yoga on the two off days)??
Thanks to whoever posted the full 3 day a week article, too!
ICRAM - I started by downloading the programme from the US RW, then the one from the FIRST site, and now I've got Sean's (hopefully soon to be upgraded with SVT's 400 metres and miles/kilometres yippee).
I also have Shades' 3-day-week programme; she's also worked out the pace at which I should run; from my last 5 miler she says I can train for a 3:30 marathon but that will have to wait till the autumn; I'm following Sean's for FLM and aiming for 3:40 (based on my Brighton 10k in November).
I'll probably add to the speedwork as I can already do the reps at the calculated pace without any trouble (touch wood - my chest is still not clear).
So today I'm going to the gym and tomorrow I've got 12 miles at 5:30 per kilometre (sounds faster in kilometres!).
Adding 60 - 75 secs to a 6 min/mile 10K pace is very different to adding 60 - 75 secs to say an 8 min/mile pace. You end up having to do you your long runs faster than your target Marathon pace.
I did 4:11 for my 1st marathon and just want to creep inside 4 hours at FLM. As a V50 three sessions a week suits me. Last year I found running 4 or 5 times a week for more than 12 weeks too much. I am aiming to do 1 Gym session per week plus a few brisk walks.
You're probably underestimating yourself.
Your 10 k time is c.50 minutes? Train for a 3.45 FLM and then see how you feel on the day (and what the weather is like). That's what I did for my first FLM and I did it in 3.59:59 (!) as it got a bit warm for my liking.
Interesting forum, and thanks for the download. As a V50 runner I'm interested in the FIRST plan as I find less training running works better for me in planning for the marathon.
And I'm intrigued to see the result in my 9th FLM!
Enjoy
Ian
The spreadsheet would be brilliant. I am also training for the FLM, I started to run in around november time so I don't know my 10k race pace. I did the 5 miler this morning in 37' 50'' which I was quite pleased with. Not sure though what pace I should go for on the 12 miler on Sunday. Ideally I would like to aim for between 3.30 and 4 hours but am not sure whether that is completely unfeasible being an complete novice to running.
Thanks Luc