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Heart rate monitor training
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So: lesson 1: HR depends on several factors, and one day I can do 5 miles at 8:30 under 70%, another day 10 miles at 10:20.
Lesson 2: if I push up the pace to what seems natural and easy, that pace is quicker than 8 minutes a mile. But as the book says, it means I am eating into my glycogen reserves and as Parker says, I'll crash and burn.
Pantman - how do your legs feel on all your slow miles? At present mine feel used (on a modest 50 a week) even running at below 70%. They feel the same when I run quicker, too. When you won that race last week how did your legs feel during the run?
Interesting to see how long it takes before I am able to speed up on the slow runs.
Will do a 2mile race this evening in Cardiff to try and confirm my max HR. If this doesn't work may have to try a few hill reps.
This is an interesting thread with some good and useful info on it.
I was intrigued by your suggestion to "start out at 80-82%MHR". This is a good bit faster than many who plod along at 70-75%, but seems to align with Hadds ILTHR and his example 60mpw schedule.
Mon 60 mins 145 HR
Tue 75 mins 160 HR
Wed 45 mins 145 HR
Thu 60 mins 150 HR
Fri 75 mins 160 HR
Sat 45 mins 150 HR
Sun 90 mins 155 HR
That's all in the range 75-83% HRmax and more than half the time is >80%
So instead of just using 70% of my Max HR (183)which would be 128bpm. I use the HRR formula, 183-RHR45=138 *70%=97 +RHR45=142bpm
So there is a big difference between 128 (70%HRMax) and 142(70%discounting RHR) I've since had mine tested on the treadmill and adjusted it slightly upwards to 145bpm after the test. The formula was very close for me.
My point is, which formula do you use? The one I use would make me 77% HRMax or 70% HRR. I assume it makes a difference, although I'm definitly seeing improvements in my pace per mile base on the formulas I'm using. I'm using the Compleat Idiot book as the basis for my training.
Dex.
Just back from a run that turned out to be a carbon copy of last Friday's recovery run in terms of the statistics. 4 miles at 9 minute pace just below 70% (Karvonen). That's the average for the whole run. But it's a bit misleading because I stopped for a natter with a running pal who was out for a walk with his missus. He kept talking 80% - and then we both realized he uses HR reserve.
My actual pace was about 4:40 per km while running.
I am really wondering (as I did last week) what to do on Sunday 21. If my HR is behaving like today and I set off at 70 - 75% I am on for sub 3:30. If my HR is like yesterday, I'm on for 4:15 - 4:30!
As I understand it the runs can go up to 80%MHR+ when NOT doing "work" sessions. However when you start those (starting them at 82% max) all other runs should be 75%max. If you do lots of miles or particularly longer/tougher work sessions, the other runs may be much less.
Dex - Hadd works off %MaxHR - nothign else.
I only look at HR after the race. part of the reason for this is that I worry that, if I look at HR during the race, I will think "I can't possibly sustain that HR" and slow down.
Karvonen makes most sense, since according to latest theory max HR doesn't change. Training affects resting HR, hence the thing that we can work on is our aerobic gap ie Max-resting. We need to make this as wide as poss. Much better to train and race off this..however, as stated before. the 85% runs get harder and harder while the 70% get easier and easier and faster and faster!!!
Pantman - thanks. That is reassuring. I mean it.
I am not sure what theory you are talking about. BUT MHR does come down with age. When I was 47 years old my MHR was 200+ and now I am nearly 66 years old my MHR is around 167. Big difference. I am as fit if not fitter than I was in 1987. I taught high impact aerobics then. Now I am a pretty successful runner for my age.
I would love to believe that what you said is true.
I agree, but what does happen, is happening to me in fact, is that the WHR band becomes considerably narrower. The Max reduces far more than the RHR drops!
http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum6/HTML/018553.shtml
faq
http://spaces.msn.com/formationflier/
I'm not used to using the heart rate bit yet, so i was wondering if it was the device throwing spurious figures or the calcs don't work, or my physiology is weird !
Thanks!
stripeyhorse
think i best lurk mainly as i am such a short distance slow runner
but just for info
i'm finally using my HRM which came free with my treadmill
and i've read the Parker book
my main objectives are
- to get fit to 10k standard from virtually nil base - maximising my chances of doing 10k in an hour inspite of being short and fat
- avoiding reinjuring a longstanding ankle problem
physio has advised i ease myself into the running but hasn't been more specific
then it occurred to me that by sticking to <70% HR per Parker book
this would also act as a handy way of not pounding too hard on the ankle
so that's what i am doing
and trying to run every other day
one thing i notice - like snaps
that my speed for a given HR is very different on different days
the effect of illness or tiredness seems to be huge
was wondering if i misread HR actually as recovering from sleep deprivation meant a difference (on successive runs one rest day gap) of
100bpm compared to 149bpm for the same level of brisk walking (which is 3mph for me)
for info
my 70% is 149
that is using formula of
RHR + 70% (mhr-rhr)
and i've estimated mhr using book formula
just wondering - are other people finding HR shooting up 50 beats if unwell or very overtired ? ?
also wondering , from point of view of maximising CV fitness
if i do other exercise (rower or bike) on "rest days " should i be keeping at under 70%
or only for running days?
not sure what parker says to this
(or any of the other gurus)
(i will aim to do one day per week at 85%+ once my ankle is stronger)
so for now
all my exercise is going to be at <70%
by <70% i mean keeping close as poss to 70% without going over
which is hard as it's between a walk and a run for me
also
for info - not sure if everyone is the same on this (?)
but in find that i can run faster for given HR , towards the end of the run
the other day i did
10min warm up
then 30mins
( for work/time reasons i have to keep sessions to 40mins at mo)
going on HR compared to speed
it looks like infact , maybe i wasn't really warmed up till 25mins into the session
ie 10min warm up plus further 15mins
how does that accord with other people's experience
and do you use HR readings to determine when you're properly warmed up?
Also the HR does vary according to tiredness, ill health etc.
My underdstanding is that your <70% runs apply only to running. Other sports will use different muscles a diff way.
Out of interest my RHR is about 44 and my Max is about 184. Having just passed 50 wondering how this compares to everyone else? My <70% run is at about 7min k pace at moment.
You guys might be interested in the following from one of the original gurus of HRM,Sally Edwards. Please note points 5-8!!
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I'll bet one of your first questions when you start training with a heart rate monitor is, "How do I determine my Max HR?" Your maximum heart rate is the basis for all of Heart Zone Training because it's the anchor point around which you set your five heart zones.
Your maximum heart rate (Max HR) is a specific number, the maximum number of contractions per minute that your heart can make. There are a number of basic facts about Max HR that we need for reference:
. Max HR is genetically determined; in other words, you're born with it.
. Max HR is a biomarker, it's your individual number.
. Max HR does not reflect your level of fitness
. Max HR is sensitive to certain variables such as altitude, drugs, medication.
. Max HR is a fixed number, unless you become unfit.
. Max HR cannot be increased by training.
. Max HR does not decline with age.
. Max HR only declines with age in sedentary individuals.
. Max HR tends to be higher in women than men.
. Max HRs that are high do not predict better athletic performance.
. Max HRs that are low do not predict worse athletic performance.
. Max HR has great variability among people of the same age.
. Max HR for children is frequently measured at over 200 bpm.
. Max HR cannot be accurately predicted by any mathematic formula.
. Max HR does not vary from day to day, but it is test-day sensitive.
. Max HR testing requires the person to be fully rested.
. Max HR testing needs to be done multiple times to determine the exact number.
Some of the points above help to explain why the old age related methods for determing max HR are, at best, an approximation and,at worst, unreliable.
FYI - my max HR is 16bpm higher than age related formula. Surprised me in a race two years ago when I flew past my max HR...was I about to die!!!!! Makes a big difference to training and race pacing!!!!
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Heart rates are measured in beats per minute (bpm). Our ambient heart rate is that measurement when you are sitting, relaxed, sedentary and it should be around 70 bpm for most people. In general, the lower your ambient rate, the better. World-class athletes have ambient heart rates in the 40's and 50 bpm range.
Your resting heart rate is measured when you first wake up in the morning before you get out of bed. The lower the number the better. Common resting heart rate numbers are in the 50-60s but again, those really fit athletes commonly display resting heart rates in the 30's and 40's.
Your Maximum Heart Rate (Max HR) is the fastest your heart can beat for one minute. A generalized rule anchors your Max HR using a mathematical formula but it has a lot of error in it because it allows it to drop as you get older. Most people become less active with age so from this perspective the formula has some validity. If you are active and workout hard, your heart rate will not drop from age.
In fact, Max HR doesn't decrease if you maintain your fitness (it does if you become deconditioned). So using a formula based on age just doesn't work well enough.