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Sub 3:15 - FLM 2009
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Yes, cross training is also good for marathon preparation, especially motivational prep.
Thanks for kind comments Poachers and Blisters. We had torrential rain in Inverness too and there were places in the last three miles where we were literally running through 3 inches of floods in some cases for 30+ metres at a stretch, not the best thing at that stage, having to really lift those knees (OUCH!). Otherwise very good cool and wet conditions. I'm told rain increases the entrained oxygen in the air, is it true?
What are you going to do? Swallow the extra oxygen? Actually there are certain parameters that are relevant, and these relate primarily to air density.
Hot and high altitude = fewer molecules, poor engine efficiency.
Low, cold and actually raining = lots of molecules, engine working well, although shoes wet and morale rock bottom.
You take your pick, mate.
Interesting point re rain & oxygen, not sure it makes any difference but I'd certainly take a cool wet day for a marathon anytime over a warm sunny one (like FLM 2005, way too hot for me!). Blisters keep your chin up, McMillan says on a dry day you'll be quicker ;-)
I dug out 12.5m off road yesterday in 1:33, a bit slow but HR was very low @65% WHR. Track session Friday was encouraging 8 x 800m off 2 mins walk recoveries averaged 2:56 per rep but the last 2 were tough
I did the Clarendon Way marathon in 4:09 yesterday. Had to be 20-30 minutes slower than a road marathon due to the conditions (wet, windy and very muddy).Was on for 3:53 until a sore hip made me slow down.
Blisters-Plenty of time yet.
TMW-Good run and some good miles on a challenging course in the bank.
Had to have a serious conversation with myself last night! Ran hilly off-road Friday, did hard hill reps Saturday and a long off road run Sunday. Running off road to try and ease the strain on the leg. What it really needs is a good rest and, so I am advised, lots of calf stretches. So on with the pilates and ease down on the running for a few days.
Best to all.
Last long run today for me. 13 days until Cardiff. As messed up 2 weeks in August, haven't done enough speed work.
Would be very happy with anything sub 3.10.
Blisters, I think me and you could run together at similar pace. If I get in to FLM we should do that!
If you check out my photos from 2006 you will see a gaggle of forumites running in loose formation, not exactly chatting, but together for about 20 miles.
28563: that's me
Wardi (Tadcaster vest, name on it)
Legionella (Barnsley vest- pale blue)
i haven't done a dedicated running race all summer as i've been doing tri instead. but now i want to gauge where i'm at in terms of run fitness before i get stuck into the FLM stuff.
do you reckon that a half-mara or a 10k would be a more meaningful gauge at this point?
cheers.
That having been said a 10k is often easier to find and can be extrapolated using the tools on the site here or better still (IMHO) the one on mcmillanrunning.com.
Odeon, best of luck for Cardiff, bagging another PB and continuing the upward curve should be great for confidence.
HT, you know the drill, hard day, easy day, repeat...... :-)
but i've got no idea what i could do for a half?? ran 1-50 for the 13.1 at the end of a half-ironman last week, but difficult to extrapolate from this due to (a) the 3 1/2 hours of swimming and biking beforehand, and (b) it was almost all off-road and included some very nasty sandy inclines.
FWW I have found McMillan very accurate as a calculator for all my distances except the marathon (which I really haven't quite nailed yet) BUT it scares the life out of me when I look at a prediction based on my summer sub 38 min 10k, 2:58 yikes! so I probably also need a longer race to either validate that or expose the fact that I'm OK at shorter races but not much cop at a long ones :-(
38' for 10k is a great time. do you think you can crack the 3 hour marathon? or are you looking for sub-3-15 at FLM next year?
like you i've found that i'm better over the shorter stuff (half-mara pb 1-25-10) than the marathon (pb 3-15-51). i've always put this down to a lack of aerobic base endurance, which was one reason for getting into the middle distance triathlon this year. i hope (?) that the experience of being out there 'racing' for 5 hours or so will translate into increased ability to maintain marathon pace.
Blisters, couldn't find those photos but saw from your races that you're from the same neck of the woods as me. Am member of Cheltenham Harriers.
Most desirable club to be in in the UK! Lol
I need to lop a similar amount off my PB to get under 3:15, so have a couple of questions ..
1. Is your weight down at all from last year. I am about 5'11" and 12 stone, but reckon half a stone off would shave some minutes off my time "for free".
2. How did you perform in build-up races? Did times there indicate you were on for a fast marathon?
Once again, congrats, 3:12 on that course is exceptional.
1. My training was uninterupted through illness or niggling injury
2. I did quite a bit of serious speed work and raced quite regularly at 1500 metres. My times improved significantly through the season which was, yes to do with increasing fitness but more to do with confidence and having the nerve to push myself.
3. 10Km times improved through the season after London Marathon (3.30.52 this year). Ended up with a best of 41.23 in Italy when I was there on holiday in late July. This was the first time I'd achieved a time which predicted a sub 3.15 marathon. At beginning of the year my PB (after my comeback from a 22 year lay off) was just over 45 minutes. I've not raced at over 10Km.
4. I forced myself to taper thoroughly, where previously my NEED to run has meant that I did too much in the last two weeks. I've been doing 60 to 70 miles a week during main training phase. penultimate week I was down to 30 and final week two very easy 5 milers.
So that was the preparation. Another significant difference was knowing the course and being aware of the 4 mile hill from Dores (17 to 21 miles). I was able to steel myself for it rather than being caught unawares. Also, first mile was about 6.45 so I really forced myself to slow down up to half way, though I felt full of running.
Application for GFA went off yesterday, so.... I ask myself, is 3Hours on the cards for London?!!!! I'm kidding myself, but I shall keep up the work and see what happens.
Thanks again for the congratulations and good luck with the training, and yes, I guess shedding half a Stone would not go amiss. (Does my bum look big in this?)
So long as I continue to maintain the long runs I hope 3Hrs is not an impossible dream.
I totally agree with you about the taper, though in my case a typical full training week (before Lochaber) was about 35 miles. In the last 3 weeks I went 35-15-8-4 and felt really lousy most of the time, but it definitely paid off for me come race day.
Not sure about physiological value of the speed stuff, but on a psychological level I find it essential just to get used to the idea of running at a faster pace ..it makes the "normal pace" seem a bit more pedestrian and sustainable. Any more races to come this year?
A rival! A rival! Give me a clue so I can stalk you too. Y'know, a photo would do.
What've you raced recently, and in what time? When will we clash? I'm afraid that I won't be at Senneley's Park this year, but there's other xc coming up.
Humph. If you can just decide to lose half a stone off an athletic frame, then you're a better man than me. (Well, I can decide to do it, but not actually put it into motion.)
DD, FWW you are much lighter than me already! I've read on here before that weight loss can be worth up to 2 secs per mile per pound lost, E.G. 7 pounds lost = 14 secs per mile or 6 'free' minutes over the marathon not taking into account any fitness gains through the training required to get the weight off.
Some incentive there (pass me a carrot)
Whether this is achieved by flat speedwork or speed endurance work I guess you take your preference / combination from what works for you and / or your favoured schedule but simply running a tonne of slow miles will IMHO just give you an enhanced ability to run a long way slowly. None of us on this thread are just looking at completing the distance after all.
That having been said for those of us beginning to set sights on a spring marathon fast work is not really that relevant now the main emphasis being the endurance building but a blast every now and then is great for relieving the boredem :-)
i did 3:19:10 for flm 06 so please with that, sub 15 the next goal....speedwork is what made the difference between my flm 05 time (3:35) to my flm06 time....it does work although as we all know it hurts
Managed 3.19 without any speedwork other than couple of 30 minute fartleks with 2 weeks to go.
Now I train with a Garmin so almost every session has a purpose. Before it was just 1 pace and that was it. I run a lot slower on many of the runs, but then I can exactly run at say 5k pace 10m pace etc. My Garmin has never lasted over 18-20m tho.
I don't think this will be a prob in Cardiff as at 20m, pace comes down to how u r feeling and not the watch.
Blisters- ran Dymock Half 2 weeks before ed 1.37. Bourton Hilly half 13 days after ed 1.35 (never doing that again), and Gloucester Half in July 1.31.
U must know Jo Fletcher (Severn), tall blond lady who is normally 1st/2nd lady. Work with her. She beat me in PSUK Champs 10m. 62 v 65 in Sept. Will add a picture but do not possess a digi camera.
Weightloss secrets from me - being teetotal, more miles (most of them steady miles), and improving my diet. Incidentally I eat carrot sticks to stop me snacking on junk at work!
Keep up all this hard training, it is bound to bring rewards.
As for weight, I'm about 10st 11 at the moment and 6ft, which is very light; if I go up to 11st or thereabout I feel like a sluggish elephant. A few lb seem to make a big difference psychologically at least.
My problem is a sweet and alochol tooth.
I have cut both out in the last week apart from 1 glass of wine and a doughnut and have lost about 2 pounds but feelt fitter.
It suddenly dawned on me 50m a week is 5000 cal approx.
Bottle of wine each a night with Mrs. O is 5600 cal approx.
Add to this the hunger from increased exercise and you can only put on weight. Half stone for me since middle of August when training went off. Feel much better this last week.
Please, Please Please stay like this for 11 more days!
On the speed debate, I think Zatopek had the right idea about slow training runs (I paraphrase) .."why would I want to run slow? I know how to run slow! I want to run fast."
...pass me a lettuce leaf (no salt)
Ok then as we're on weight confessionals I'm 13 stone and 6ft, maybe up to a stone heavier than my ideal BUT 2 stone lighter than my first FLM in 2003. Maybe today's posts are enough to motivate me going forward, I suffer the same S & A tooth that Odeon does it seems. I'll keep you posted on progress. TMW, sage advice, you also have youth on your side :-)