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POSE Method of running?
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I don't know anything about this but from my experiences with martial arts all I can say is the most natural way is more often than not the best way.
What you'll often find in MA is a multitude of arts, techniques and methods. Ultimately the most effective tend to be the ones most naturally executed. The ones people would often do without any training. So many of the blocks, and deflections in Ju Jutsu for example are very obvious and pointed. Compare that to the very flashy and esoteric arts like classical wushu, etc.
So I'm always wary of techniques like these that talk about fundamentally changing the natural way you do something. The amount of time retraining often isn't worth it for the benifits and ultimately no research like this can be as tried and tested as nature itself.
You're talking about a persons research against millions of years of harsh, natural evolution in the real world. Personally I'd fall on the side of my body and nature in this instance.
Hi Doug,
Correct! We want to run as nature intended.
BUT, try this: go for a run on a hard surface, maybe you'll land on your heel and roll through to the toe - this is a walking motion, the one you are most used to doing (seeking balance). Now take off your shoes and run again. Would you dare land on your heel and role through to the toe? What nature intended is not always immediately obvious
Hi Doug,
Define "natural" please.
I think most runners ceased running "naturally" the moment they started wearing support trainers with nice big sofa heels which allow them to get away with heel-striking and over-pronation.
I would like to see a "natural" heel-striker go run 5km without trainers on and retain their heel striking form without injury.
Sorry but the human foot is natural, the latest all singing all dancing super padded Mizuno's aren't.
Hi Doug!
Welcome to the thread. Please can you tell me how "millions of years of harsh, natural evolution in the real world" has led to Marshall Arts like Ju Jitsu?
Furthermore, I know nothing about MA (except badly dubbed kung-fu movies), can i assume I will still be able to beat you in a fight? If not likely, what can you do to help me? How would I improve 'cos I really wanna be the next Jackie Chan?
These are all rhetorical questions - so no need to answer. Can you see my point? For me to be effective, you need to help me to perhaps "unlearn" my bad habits and "relearn" things I should already know about.
Triple combo!
Hi Doug
POSE is not a new way of running, it really is getting back to the natural way, the way we learnt when we were somewhere between 1 and 2.
GP - thanks for that link, looks good.
I've done another mile. I kept to my cushioned shoes today as I've had creaky/achey knees since running without the padding. I feel very stiff, especially upper arms and shoulders, I think this is because I am concentrating so much I tense everything up. I keep having to remind myself to relax when running and then its ok.
Doug
Furthermore we actively encourage running barefoot as an aid to good technique, just as nature intended!
it depends what's being claimed for this POSE.
If the claim is less injuries there may be something in it, after all not walking or running at all would reduce injuries.
however until i see an elite runner using this method i'll look on it as another financial scam similar to reiki healing, alexander technique, homeopathy et al.
it's basically a great way for anyone to pay out money to take a course in running unnaturally then recoup it all and more teaching others
Nothing like having an open mind is there.
Hi ZT:
Yes we do claim less chance of injuries!
Elite runners tend to have a better technique any way.
Don't know anything about Reiki or much about Homeopathy, but Alexander only claims to help improve your posture. Don't need any science to see the benefit in that.
Nobody making any money put of POSE here. As far as I know no POSE coach in the UK has given up their day jobs yet.
All the pro POSEers here only post because they can feel the difference every time they run and and are glad to have converted and glad to try and help others. Is that a scam?
ZeroT: People pay for expensive £60-£100 gizmo-ridden moon-boots which don't allow their feet to be used as Nature intended ....and then when they're injured they then spend £30-£60/session trying to sort their injuries and then spend the same again for sports massages every 4-6wks and then (the worst part!) they get stressed/frustrated over their injuries for several months and then replace their moon-boots every few hundred miles since that's what the "Running Establishment" has decreed and then.....the worse part of all....they often repeat the set of running circumstances which caused the injury in the first place! That's a "financial scam".
By the way: my definition of a "moon boot" is anything like the typical Racing Flat and bigger. My Puma H Street house slippers weight 100-120g, cost near enough a tenner and last many 100s of miles.
No-one is asking you for money. Anyone can get a lot of good advice for free - if they ask nicely.
On the topic of paying money to attend courses, I went booked on the 4 day movement clinic earlier today.
I wasn't going to book till I got more details about what specifically they will be covering since the cost is quite large... the december discount tipped me over the edge though!
Oh well too late now, I'm sure it will be an excellent course. I'd like to do Cabletow's clinic too, we'll have to see I guess.
Hey CT, do you think there's any chance of getting your clinic on the site before the end of december. There's a 10% discount running currently which I think will expire dec 31st.
Hi Leanne,
Well yes and no. Switching to forefoot running does mean the calf is used more so there has to be a period of conditioning where the muscle adapts.
Bear in mind I am coming from a Pose perspective here.
On the other hand with forefoot running there is a temptation to *hold the heel off the ground* to *force* a forefoot landing. Kind of like a dog's leg where you are trying to stay on your toes and keep your heel from touching the ground, doing this puts enormous tension through the calf resulting in the pain you describe.
It's fine to allow the heel to touch down, the point of (pose) forefoot running is the make sure the weight is over the forefoot, it is actually possible to have the heel touchdown first and still be forefoot running as long as the weight transfer comes through initially onto the forefoot and not onto the heel.
If that makes any sense!Of course your injury might be due to the conditioning as in the former above but it might also be due to an error in technique as in the latter above, it's a bit difficult to say from here!
Hi Leanne: There are three main elements to POSE that is Pose, Fall and Pull. You need to get all three right. An error in one will lead to an error in the next. Without pulling your feet from the ground correctly you will not get them to land under your hips, etc. I suspect that your attempt at forefoot striking has been such that you have been landing ahead of your hips, this means your calf muscles have to work harder not only to take your bodyweight but some of your bodyweights momentum travelling forwards. We empahsise time and time again learning the technique before attempting any distance to prevent experiences such as yours. There is one forefoot striker in my club and one other in another local club, they have always run that way and are in no other respect POSE runners. Hope all of this helps. You also mentioned increasing mileage and throwing in cross country, these can both lead to a crisis for your body and without adequate recovery time injuries. Many a runner has come a "cropper" this way. (yes me as well). Have patience, transition more slowly, increasing intensity gradually, giving your body more time to adapt into a lean mean running machine.
Doug: Good man! Even if you do not continue, you will hopefully begin to see the importance of learning the "how" to run before speed and distance.
gg: I understand your reservations, but email Svetlana and tell her you really want to do the course and how do you pay despite the course not being listed. She will arrange it for you.
Doug and Leanne: Good advice from GP, GG and CT
GG: You have it all. Imho, you don't need another clinic. We can always arrange a group training session convenient for all.
Poseur Guyz & Galz: I'm having a week away - back before the New Year. I'm not sure if I'll be able to post unless I find a 'net cafe. My plan will be to eat and drink, gain a few pounds in some lovely sun and sea but no sand! Not sure I will be able to run but I will be annoying everyone with silly walks from the Ministry
Have a wonderful Christmas and remember you're a Womble...!
gg: Yes 2 in 2 months. The 2nd was also dare I mention it a coach accreditation, and so more difficult to compare. It had a lot of the same stuff (pull g........m your foot from the ground) but different questions asked and so different insight pulled from Doc R. You might regard the experience of seeing Doc R in action again worth the money, but how much more new you might learn I am not so sure. afer all the basic theory is simple. If you want to improve your technique it might be better to work with nrg as his post above or another coach like Oleg.
nrg: Don't eat too much, you might have to do another Ultra to work it off.
Grey Pilgrim, thanks for the advice very helpful, what is the best way to try and learn the pose method on my own, is there any recomended books or websites to help learn the right techniques. I'm not sure what you mean by landing under your hip. I've read that you land under your knee but thats all I've heard, its quite hard to find the right information about it when I'm not sure what to look for! What is the basics to pose, fall and pull?
GlopGlop, good advice next time I run I'll take that in mind thanks!
Leanne
www.posetech.com
www.fetcheveryone.com - the efficient running thread
and I am organising a POSE clinic with Dr R in March 8th and 9th - come and learn the quickest and easiest way by getting some one to one and video analysis - loughborough