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POSE Method of running?
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The only *proper* running shops I know of are Running Bear in Alderley Edge which has about 15 pairs of trainers in the shop and Up and Running in Hyde which has a much larger range, a whole walls worth but I haven't been there since pre-pose though I reckon it's probably worth a visit. http://www.upandrunningsports.co.uk/
I know where you can try on Onitsuka Tai-Chis but I'm thinking you're after something with a bit more grip?
Onitsuka Tai-Chis:
Minimal heel
Flexibility
On Running Bear, yeah I was very disappointed after everything I'd heard, literally about 15 different pairs of trainers to try on which is nothing. Your typical running shop will have 100+.
Around 5 normal road running style ones...
Another 5 fell running style ones which looked excellent, really flat and minimalist except for large studs on the bottom and a too stiff sole...
Around 5 trail ones which looked like the road runners but with even more support and padding.
Basically I wanted the fell running style without studs. I asked why the fell runners have very little support but the trail runners had loads and was told the trail runners need the support because of the ankle movement. I'm sure there is some reasoning but it didn't make much sense to me given the fell running ones looked so minimal.
I came away with the view that the fell runners need competitive shoes and trail runners can be sold the expensive marketed crap.
When I talked about my PTT and over-pronation they were *straight* to support trainers.
It's a really odd situation isn't it for us, going into a specialist running shop and being forced to ignore all that training and experience because we feel we "know better".
Oh also there is an "Up and Running" in the triangle in Manchester (the old Corn Exchange). Nothing to do with the Hyde shop though, just a coincidence on the name.
http://www.upandrunning.co.uk/shops/manchester.php
They have a half decent range but again it is your typical running fair.
There is a pair of size 9 H-streets on ebay now, current bid £9.99 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PUMA-H-STREET-RUNNING-TRAINERS-SHOES-NEW-MENS-UK-9_W0QQitemZ310011337205QQihZ021QQcategoryZ1262QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem if anyone is interested.
Larry: Sounds like you are getting somewhere. There is no concept of striding in POSE. More just running on the spot by lifting alternate feet off the ground and shifting your bodyweight forwards and continuing to imagine running on the spot even though you are not. It does require a higher cadence than heel striking and this requires getting your feet off the ground quickly. You might find it helpful to imagine running across a hot surface or perhaps running on water with very light and quick dabs at the surface.
Siance: ITBS and piriformis problems are both linked to overstriding, reducing speed and distance would be the first thing you would do for either. In order to run faster you can increase the length of stride, increase cadence, or both. In POSE stride and cadence are a natural consequence of shifting your bodyweight further forward (Falling) with the extra addition of pulling your feet from the ground. There is no concept of pushing backwards or toeing off and an active foot landing is something to be avoided. Please do not feel you are intruding just because we do a lot of yacking off subject on a single thread.
Nice, I haven't got that colour!
After not getting ITB yesterday whilst running, I woke up with it today and its been there all day apart from about 10 minutes after I used the roller - and I haven't run at all today. Its pretty annoying but I am getting irritation in the left knee in the evening when just sitting and I am sure its linked to the ITB trouble. I have just about had enough of knees!!!
In fact my whole left hip area seems to have been a bit sore and stiff lately and when I am running I seems to land heavier on that side, having to concentrate more on pulling and being light footed with that one. Maybe its all connected.
I am a bit worred about changing shoes to minimalist ones without the cusioning in the forefoot as I think my knees need all the help they can get to cushion the shock. I am feeling my stability shoes are completely the wrong thing to be running in and the heel is certainly getting in the way in landing properly, it feels clumsy and heavy. My local running shop is getting a couple of pairs of shoes in for me to try on that CT recommended. They are pretty helpfull but couldn't get the Mizunos. I do have a couple of pairs of Frees, do you think I should have another try out in those?
GP: Cheeky!!!! I will be doing the Reading HM. Being a graduate of Lufbra II will certainly be at CT's Pose Bash. I lookforward to Dr R ripping apart someone else's running style for once
CT: Mizunos look ok but a bit thick and you don't want the shoe to be too rigid (the uppers look inflexible). The Adidas look very nice and flexible.
Siance: Hello! Sorry to hear about the ITB. I've had it and its not nice. First and foremost you should do whatever you want to get rid of it. If it means walking then do that. When you walk try not to over-stride but do keep your ankles loose and flexible. Our bodies improve with use but remember you're in injury recovery mode so always stay well within your comfort zone. Also look to getting the ITB and surrounding muscles deep-muscle massaged. There may be tightness which is altering your gait. Finally, stay relaxed and try to keep your knee slightly bent, don't straighten the knee completely. After each session use plenty of ice to reduce the pain/infammation.
glopglop: Bingo! Your pictures show why the ironicly named Onitsuka Tai-Chi is the perfect Pose shoe.
Larry: Its not the shoes. Only way is to see you run. Can you post a video?
Hello everyone, been to the track yesterday after a Christmas off running to give my achilles a rest and to concentrate on the cycling. Did my usual pose session which involves all the muscular elasticity exercises, doing the moving ones breaking into a run round the track at the end of each one. Gets in a bit of distance while focussing on the technique. For this I am in the most minimal track spikes as it is too cold for barefoot now. Everything felt very fine, with no trouble from the achilles.
Using the same principal as keeping a pile of horse manure in the dining room to keep flies out of the kitchen I have punished my quads enough in previous days to only feel the grumbles from that area!
I now have to get a bit serious about running as I got my entry off to London in time to keep my championship start place so need to pick up a relativley low key schedule. Last year I went all out for mileage and run focussed training and ended up being the first person of the whole day to drop out (an earlier start and only 5k of running surely grants me that title? I was having a pint at 9;30 am) .
This year I have the small meatter of an Ironaman followed by a double IM in the Summer where the biggest time gains for me will be made on the bike, hence the focus on cycling.
What I need to do now, having basically learnt to run again from scratch is pick up a schedule that allows enough rest for my long suffering achilles and bike training, while capitalising on my previous run fitness to get me a sub 3:15 time in order to maintain my championship place for next year. I plan on running three times a week, one track (technique), one hour-ish run (tempo) and one long weekend run (starting at 8 miles this weekend). It sounds low mileage however I did something similar the year before last and did 3:12 comfortably so it ought to be possible.
What do you experts think?
I got a Garmin 305 for Cristmas so could customise a schedule on here and download it easily.
Also looking pback to the last page Glopglop I think the reason fell shoes are minimal is because they are designed for your feet to respond to the uneven terrain big trail shoes just end up twisting your ankles all over the place when running on scree and such like, but you are right, "road" walshes would make the perfect pose shoe.
Incidentally did anyone see the Gadget show a few weeks ago, the were doing a group test of gym gadgetry and the one that came out top (the other two things were embarrassingly rubbish though) was a pair of rubber sock like shoes for treadmill running, they were as minimal as you can get without being barefoot, they didn't look too durable but might solve the issue of not being able to run barefoot on treadmills for "health and safety" reasons.
rubber sock thingies:
Hi Monique: Your running seems a bit minimal for a sub 3.15 but then you don't mention how much bike and swim training you also do. Your long run is not required for aerobic work since you get that from the bike, but to build confidence that you can go the distance at the pace. So the long run needs to be a little above target race pace 7.10 say. With the 305 you can run a HR threshold of say 20 mins at 90% of WHR for developing anaerobic tolerance, should be a bit sharper than 10K pace. The track technique session can be light enough for a recovery run. I used to find a swim session worked as a recovery for a hard run. Working it out to get as much space between the hard bike and run sessions was always a problem.
Those are VIibram Five Fingers. I think they're designed for more than just treadmill, the sole is special heardwearing Vibram rubber.
http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/
I'd love to use them but it's just the funny looks you'd get that put me off. :?
Ooh I don't bother about funny looks, might get some.
GP-Yes, Above race pace might be a good idea, I customised a run schedule on here and it has me doing three runs a week, which is what I wanted, it just gives me a bit more variety in the speed sessions than if I'd made it up myself. They have target pace for the long runs at around 7:23 (could up it a little), which is about right, based on my most recent half mara time of 1:26. I am planning on a longer over distance run anyway (because that's what I always do) usually 30 miles- at my own pace. My more pressing reasons for doing that are to do with the double in the Summer, I need to get a feel for race pace in pose style for double marathon distance off a swim and 224 mile bike (will be a brick session). Plan on doing more of that type of training after the marathon as well. Currently weekend rides are 60-90 miles rising to 100-150 by marathon day, with mid week commutes of 14 miles three or 4 times a week. Swimming is at 2 a week currently but hopefully will get more focus on that in the next few weeks and be able to up it to three. Bike is the key for this year, the running is "to keep my hand in" and not excacerbate my achilles until it is properly better. I need to put in a sub 3:15 to save the bother of having to run a qualifying time later in the year (when I will be resting prior to beginning Deca training). I am very much at the mercy of my achilles, but it seems a little better with the acupuncture so I am upbeat.
Monique: I am not a triathlete so don't have the know-how to talk about schedules encompassing swimming and cycling. My thruppence worth is:
- KJ who used to post here is a IM triathlete and did a sub3 mara on 20mpw running
- Your schedule worked last time so it seems like a good bet to stick with it. The only change I'd make is to practice at least the session1 DVD drills everyday - it only takes 10-15mins if you keep in step with Dr R.
- training builds confidence. When running at any speed/distance mentally focus on using the hamstring just enough to break contact.
I am still awaiting your video as I'd like to see why your achilles is stressed. You can contact me via this site and I can give you some advise on how best to get a video.
Those vibram-fivefingers are freaky !! I'm not sure I have the guts to wear those. Give me day-glow Puma H Streets any day.
>>Ooh I don't bother about funny looks, might get some.
Jesus, they're 70 f*cking quid!
No it's quid!!
Google brings up these people as the UK's only official distributor.
http://www.fivefingers.co.uk/
I like these better but yes you are right they are £70
But how much do people pay for the Nike Camel Toe?
Yeuk!!! You'd look like a LOTR Hobbit reject if you wore a pair of those!
esp with my hairy feet!
How about these ones for that barefoot feel.
You could always run in a pair of Nike Frees.
Hi I've just purchased some five fingers once they arrive I'll tell you what they are like. If you keep searching different sites on google you can get them form £35 from the US with free shipping if you change the dollars to pounds, but some sites you will have to wait till the 9th till they are shipped and they might not be the colour you want but depends how much you want them. I've ordered some white ones form the US that should be shipped quite quick cost about £45 so not too bad if I can use them like trainers.
I've read some forums and its ment to be quite good for POSE technique almost impossible to land on your heals, but take a bit of getting used to but not surprising! So I'll see when they get here!
The POSE book and dvd arrived today so I'm going to give them a look at before I consider paying all that money, because to be honest I don't really have that much money to just spend. Being a student I need money lots of other things like physio, running stuff, holiday and car! But I would consider it if I can't seem to get it from the book and dvd because I want to be able to run well and without injurys.
I keep having trouble with my ankle and achilles because my arches have dropped as I mentioned a while ago. My physio things I should see a sports podiatrist and possibly get orthotics, would I still be able to use these running in POSE? She knows about me learning POSE and thinks it sounds a good idea. I could always mention it to the podiatrist when I go just wondering what other people think?