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Sub 3

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    I was expecting it to be honest sj but I'm sorry you won't get to race.

    You always seem to have lots going on TT!

    Are you thinking about entering Wrexham Joolska or not looking for a spring marathon?
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
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    Hi all, long time no speak.  Well probably never spoken apart from years ago on other areas of this site.  But here I am on the Sub 3 with one of those blooming annoying questions/debates where I think you experts can probably help me out so I can make a decision.

    Goal - Obviously Sub3 as that's where I'm posting.  :)

    Background - Football 4 times a week from the age of 13 up until 28 when I started running.  I use that term loosely.  I 'just' ran up until the age of about 33/34 after completing around 10 mara's all pretty badly apart from the odd success off no specific plan for it. My current PB is 3:31 at Brighton which came at the age of around 38 (I'm now 43) in the build up to Challenge Roth.  I've been multi sporting from 34 until now.  I was due to do an xtri in September in Spain and then that obviously got cancelled.  I guess what I'm saying is I have years and years of multi sport fitness in me.  I'm not that heavy.  Currently around 79kg at 5 ft 11.  My goal is to get to around 77kg and stop there because of my frame I'd probably look very odd and get ill a lot. :) My other PB's are 19:11 for 5k, 39:32 for 10k and 1:31:03 for HM. Have to admit the 10k and half were some time ago but I've probably gone sub 20 without killing myself or really training for it specifically every year for the past 5 years.  For the past year and a half I've pretty much never run on tarmac or flat.  I'd say each of my runs is minimum 100m in elevation and that would be on a 2-3 miler but most of the time they are around 300m+.  Slow, off road but bliss miles up high.  However the other day I donned a pair of road trainers and hit exactly 3 miles (35m of elevation) on a general road run and pushed out 7:18's without too much effort at all.  150bpm avg.

    The point of this post - After my xtri event got cancelled I thought you know what I've invested so much time in my health for this race that I only want to do what I deem to be the pinacle in xtri going forward which is swissman or norseman.  I'm not in next year which gives me a 'free' year to work on some things and just enjoy fitness.  This... like a lot of morons like me on forums are thinking whether I can go sub 3 in Brighton next September off 9 months training.

    I'm definitely a realist so my gut instinct is no and im under no illusion how hard this is or must be so I have two options really:

    1 - I have Luxembourg 70.3 which was deferred from this year until next June 20th.  Do I train flat out for this race (which will give me some speed for the HM section), take a week/2 weeks recovery and then build (running only using the Jack D method) to the marathon in September with no goal at all in mind and just get round in a reasonable time.  I'd probably aim for something like 3:15-3:19.

    2 - Forget about the tri (which im happy to do because of extra money involved and it's at an awkward holiday time) and go boobs out to try and achieve sub 3 using the Jack D method.

    It'll be really interesting to hear some peoples view on this and I totally get everyone is different and takes different run loads etc.  If I did go option 2 I'd probably urge on the side of caution and run 5 times a week, swim 2, and bike 1 with the latter parts just to keep all the body moving which I would see as a preventitive to injury rather than completeling one of the runs to just top up weekly mileage.

    Apologies for the essay.  Hope you're all good and I look forward to following this thread for the forseeable future.
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    TT - Cheers! Wow, an eventful year for mostly the wrong reasons but things looking up. Knocking out 50 mile weeks is something to be positive about. Less than 1000 miles might sound a little low when compared to others but I know it still takes some doing.

    SJ - Ah that's really annoying! We can add geographical factors now to the racing variables alongside shoes. Probably tough to be too positive today but you've got the marathon fitness now without the actual marathon damage in the legs. Could work out better in the long run, if you can keep the motivation going. 

    7 miles and strides today. Cracking day again, do love a bit of sunshine. Got a few "races" in December. One more 5k (perhaps with magic shoes), the club's 10k virtual run and Fleet virtual half. Plenty of motivation there to get me through to xmas. Thoughts are turning towards the longer stuff again but SJ's experience is a cautionary tale!
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    SJ - That's a real bugger and your showing a great attitude.  Far better to have  that training banked for 2021. 
    TT - You've had quite a time, glad its largely behind you.
    Onwards and upwards for us all!
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    yeah I know - depends what you want really doesn't it? I didn't go anywhere near sub 3 until I stopped doing long distance tri and just ran, it was consistent consistency that got me there as a 49 year old woman starting from a much lower base than you. If you want sub 3 you should be able to get it - but you probably can't have it all - or at least not at the same time.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
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    Little Miss... I think you're right.  I need to stop talking about it and just get on with it.  :)
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     :) 
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
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    WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    YIK.. wise words from LMH, these 'less is more' training plans that pop up here & there don't cut the mustard for a marathon.  Actually Mr Spraggins who comes on here occasionally is a sub 2:45 runner and a decent triathlete, though he does train hard in between his eating binges.  :)

    SJ.. gutted for you, I guess entering or organising anything in these troubled times is a risky venture.  Hope you can keep positive as your training has got you into great shape.  Just read today that Berlin aren't accepting qualifying times from Dorney!

    TT.. crikey you've been through the mill a few times lately, hopefully you can press on from here.  Good luck!

    LMH.. are you still managing to tick over?

    Similar to Joe, just over 7m here - gorgeous day, ran to the top of a rise and could see for miles.
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    TT - Hope you get a less evenful period where you can focus on some running.

    LMH - are you entering Wrexham ?

    Wardi - good for you, i was in the dark lanes with my new headtorch lighting the way.

    Y I K - spend a bit of time running more and see where you get to, build it up slowly though. Esp as you'll need to get on the roafs more for a mara. 

    10m run commute home.
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    LMH:  I'm not good with uncertainty, so passing on.a spring marathon - and hoping the vaccine really does rescue us all! Have you had any further updates about your scans?
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    Joolska - I'm not banking on the vaccine getting to me any time before Easter (and I'm in the top half of the list) unless they give in and let me work administering it. GP has referred me to the MSK Team but I haven't heard from them as yet.

    Wardi - just about. Physio says that I need to run every three days at least regardless of the pain at the start.

    TR - not with the amount of running I can do at the minute.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
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    10 miles plodded. The legs just weren't feeling it today, but they're all miles in the bank!
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    LMH - ohh tthats a shame how much are you doing atm ? You need to join me on the turbo a couple of times a week. 3min reps later today.

    Jools - agreed, well banked ,my 10m home last night was ~8.30 av but thats fine most days.

    Whilst its going to only be a few degrees Sunday, the Goodwood forecast is showing sunny with 6mph winds, fckn sods law for you.
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    runjoerun91runjoerun91 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    YIK - I feel that a sub 3 is within most people's reach provided they are generally fit and have age on their side which in your early 40s you seem to have. I find that my fitness really ramps up when I hit 40+ miles a week and so it will depend on how your body handles higher mileage. As TR says, build it up slowly and see what happens. It's good to aim for times but ultimately you just have to realise your potential...whatever that might be.

    Nailed the timing again today. It's now raining but my 7 miler was in full on sunshine.
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    Joe - good to run in the sunshine on a weekday, that wont happen to mr very often for a while.

    12x3min on turbo, legs knew i was pedalling but the engine will be none the wiser.
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    WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    TR..  the head torch should be a good investment if you're doing a few dark night commutes (nice 10m BTW), are you clear of covid symptoms now?

    That reminds me of some years ago when I was running home.. there were bright lights on at the back of a farm I knew well, I was about 3/4 mile away.  I assumed they were doing some form of maintenance but when I got there they were playing floodlit tennis on a proper court at the back.  This was in 4 degrees on a February night!

    Joe.. good weather dodging!  It looks very ropey up here for the next couple of days.

    LMH.. better than nothing I suppose but still very frustrating.

    Jools.. all part of the base even if it feels less than effortless, good 10m in the bag.

    12.3m this morning, much gloomier/grey compared to yesterday but dry & light winds.
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Wardi- until i lose it like the last one. Floodlit tennis in Feb ! 12m is good going this side of Christmas for an mlr. I never really had much symptom wise, was just slighty under the weather. Ive been being careful as a precaution, which ill do effort wise for a while..........ive been approached to donate blood plasma to give to covid patients. I have to be tested to see if i have enough antibodies, and if so go to Southampton to donate until my antibody levels drop too low. Going to Southampton will be a pain if its a busy time, but its morally the right thing to do, so im up for it.
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    yeah I knowyeah I know ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Just wanted to say thanks again for the feedback.   :) 

    Based on it I've put a little 'plan' in place to increase 8% each week until I reach 40 miles ish.  I'll let you know how I feel by the end of it.  I think I can also manage to cross train and enjoy the other sports whilst doing so.
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    JackHarris87JackHarris87 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Hi guys. Been lurking for a while to see how my training compares to some of you guys, I now feel I’m getting towards where I need to be to think about sub-3 training so thought it’d be good to get involved. I’m in for Brighton in September and possibly Rotterdam in October as a contingency. 

    I’ve been really slow to come back from some time off with plantar fasciitis, just been base building since about June and ramping it up really slowly, no more than 1 run a week that’s anything harder than base pace. Despite a lack of speedwork the increase in mileage and consistency is working a dream and I ran an unofficial 5k PB last week. Can’t wait to race again! 

    YIK, as others have said, start slow and do lots of easy miles, the speed will come. Maybe reassess where you are after a few months of base building and running 5+ times a week. 

    TR, I got myself a turbo as well as a lockdown present to myself and I really like it. Hoping it’ll bring some speed when I get back out on the bike in the summer, I don’t mind running in the rain but I’m a bit of a fair weather cyclist.  I’m in Southampton and give blood a few times a year. They’re very efficient with getting people in and out but I get that the traffic can be a nightmare depending on where you’re coming from. 

    8.5 miles this afternoon with 4 @ 6:45mm
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    See where you get to in 2 months YIK and then reassess.

    JH - welcome aboard,  turbo is good for fitness, and for distances up to 1/2 mara is ok for your running. You can make great strides simply by running more as youve found.........i have a Brighton place (and vlm), i copped the worse day theyve had in 2019 with a seafront gale (i cop all the crap weather days)......im by Portsmouth, so would be a psin at rush hour esp with the current state of the m27.
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    10 rainy miles today
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    WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Same weather here TR, wet & gloomy all day though it wasn't too heavy when I got out this morning.  10k done and grateful for the rain jacket.
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    Good for you, it got pretty wet as it was quite heavy, i was getting cold in the last few miles.
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    Good on you both for getting out, pretty grim out there. Did 8.5+ miles the previous 2 days so gave it a miss today. Steady 90 mins on the turbo instead this evening 
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    sj - that sucks; I'm really sorry to hear that.

    LMH - sorry to hear you're still waiting to get fixed. It must be so frustrating for you.

    TR - good on you with the donation.

    Good to see folks getting out irrespective of the weather. I've been getting a bit in this week - body and head seem to be aligning finally (putting a lot of that down to the change of diet) so I followed up Monday's 8m jog with a 10/4 double, 11m easy (plus a light weights session), and then a 10/6 double yesterday which put me over 1,000 for the year finally. I'm in a very much 'keep it easy and make it up as I go along' phase to try rebuild volume and strength.
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    JH - thats a good mix.

    TT - if you keep putting weeks like this in then youll progress quickly.

    12m for me today. Getting back there.
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    TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    TR - consistency will definitely be the key bit. I've settled on the 'not really having a plan' plan to rebuild because of the fibro, so I'll be going entirely by feel, but I'm hoping I can get in a good volume of mileage each week, even if it's mainly low-key.

    I can stick a lunch-time 13 in my mix, which probably makes this the biggest week of the year for me already (not a high bar - what I''ve done in 5 days is bigger than some of the months I put in this year; lol).
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    JH - You have the same initials as me so this could get confusing (although only for me given my username). But welcome to the group!

    TR - You sound like you're right back in the game. The lack of miles must have been a shock for your body.

    It's cold and it's wet. First wearing of the gloves for many many months. Good thing I picked up 2 new pairs from primark yesterday. Couple of short and snappy days followed by a quicker run today. It was a "tune-up" race day so the aim was to run a 3k sub 10 mins. I didn't feel good in the warm up but thought i'd give it a crack anyway. Ducked out after 2k (6:36). Felt pretty shoddy in the cool down as well and a bit light headed this afternoon so glad I did duck out early. 
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    WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Joe.. don't worry about the tune up, all should be well on time trial day if the conditions are good.  FWIW I have Merino gloves on my xmas list, with my Rynauds I wear them outdoors most of the winter so they do wear out in a year or so.

    JH87.. welcome aboard.  Due to my conditon described above I can't cycle in winter at all so I too am a fair weather cyclist!

    TR.. encouraging stuff, good to see you back on the road more regularly.

    TT.. hope you get a reasonably clear run from now.  FWIW when I was easing back from a nerve niggle in the spring I was on 30-40 slightly uncomfortable miles per week.  Once the discomfort slowly eased away I gradually built up to 50-60mpw which is where I am now.  Like you not much structure, just built up the miles steadily.

    4.5m + 4m either side of chores today.  Treadmill option taken this morning as the weather was abysmal!  In other news the buckle broke on my Garmin 230 today.  A replacement strap is on on order, in the meantime I've dug out my trusty and chunky old 310XT to see me through the next few days.   
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    TRTR ✭✭✭
    TT - see where you are in 6 weeks time.

    Joe - 2k is a decent blow out anyway. Wasnt just the not running for 2 wks, it was 2 weeks of not working, not walking the dog etc my body went on holiday.

    Wardi - you could carry the gadget in yr pocket?

    10m more took it easy (as ever) as my RHR has been a few beats high in the morning last couple of days, so migt have a cold coming.
    5 runs (4×10, 1x12) and 2 turbos, i need to build towards including an mlr and long run in the 5 now.
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