The Middle Ground



  • ioweriower ✭✭✭

    Quick catch up on yesterday's half ironman race - 4 jellyfish stings on the swim and pretty choppy sea, 35:31 in the end, felt better than last year though so while a similar time I feel it was a decent swim. Went through t1 smoothly in 4:29 and onto the bike. Thunderstorms were in full force at this point, lots of rain and strong wind! Got through the first section up to the climb holding target power. Hill felt good though probably overcooked it a bit but wanted to keep the cadence up. The descent was treacherous to say the least. Really slippy and poor visibility, with the added bonus of gusts of wind round every hairpin. The rest of the bike I struggled on a bit, combination of paying for the effort up the climb and losing motivation (had had enough of the weather by this point!) and one of my stings on my face was seizing my neck up a bit! Got off the bike in 3:08, again same sort of time as last year but much much tougher conditions. Quickly through t2 in 2:15 then onto the run. I was aware my quads were tiring towards the end of the bike so kept the first few miles easy, but was surprised to look down and see low 7:20s on the watch. Effort felt right though so kept with it and hoped the wheels didn't fall off at the end. Rain had eased a bit by now but it was pretty good running weather. Fatigue caught up with me throughout the run but managed to hold good pace and came home in 1:37, way quicker than I'd hoped and slightly made up for the slow bike, felt like I'd judged it to perfection and nailed it. 5:28 overall, 630th out of 2600ish finishers I think and 53rd in my age group. 3500 odd entries so lots of people didn't start or finish. Legs are dead now! Time for a rest image

    Edit: had a quick look at the results after and the pros were 10-15 minutes slower on the bike compared to previous years so made me feel a bit better!

  • parkrunfanparkrunfan ✭✭✭

    Dr Dan - amazing that we didnt bump into each other yesterday, after all there were only 7000 runners and a few more thousand spectators! 

    Anyway, looking forward to your thoughts on the conditions, I can't recall a race where so many 'experienced' runners struggled badly. To be honest it was hot but if you took that into account from the outset the effect on times was minimal, maybe a minute at most. On the other hand, run the first half hard and it would be an inevitable crash and burn situation.


    Both male and female winners were the same runners as last year and both ran slightly faster times, so that gives some limitation to how much conditions were worth.


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Good effort, Iower. What's next?

    I had a tough morning yesterday. The sun was in full effect by the time we started at 11am and the whole course seemed to be fully exposed to it. I woke up Sunday still feeling rather jaded from an all day corporate function on Friday. When people keep putting bottles of moet in front of you it's hard to say no.

    Anyway, I had memorised my splits from last year and set off pretty well. My 3 miles I was about 30 seconds up on last year. But then the heat and the hills started to get to me together fact I was running alone with a couple of guys about 100m ahead.

    I plodded on and despite struggling those ahead must have been as I was slowly gaining on them. With about 1k to go I caught one runner ahead and was gaining on the next who was lead women. Unfortunately there wasn't quite enough time left and she beat me by 3 seconds. I came in at 40.44 which is exactly my time from last year, but finished 12th compared to 23rd last year, despite the fuel increasing by 30 to 350. Looking over the results at various levels, times were 1-2 minutes down generally. So whilst disappointed to end my sub 40 run, in the circumstances I'm satisfied with that.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    Lots of positives to take there, DT! Pretty reasonable in the circumstances, not least because you ran 42k or so fairly recently!

    PRF: pass on my congrats to the first woman!

    DrD: still re-hydrating?! No idea how Sunday went so looking forward to a blow-by-blow account!

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • parkrunfanparkrunfan ✭✭✭

    DT19 - You played it well relative to those around you, that's basically all is a race is in a nutshell. You ran it intelligently and gained places as a result image

    Alehouse - I will indeed. After about 4 miles we decided to run the race together in memory of a certain pet that we lost this week. Although it was a big field the feedback from the course suggested that she had a comfortable lead in the second half so there was no need to push too hard in the heat. Having said that, she still managed a few seconds quicker than last year in 1:23. Running in together caused a few problems for the Plusnet banner unfurlers trying to set up the shot of the 1st lady crossing the line unaccompanied image

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes, I suppose two weeks post marathon I can still take it into account. After the race settled at about mile 1 I wasn't passed by anyone and must have passed 7/8 others.

    Well done to HO on her win.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Good race DT ... as PRF alluded to, sometimes the conditions/route remind us about racing, rather than gunning for times.

    Talking of which... the Leeds HM! Sorry to have missed you PRF ... you were probably on minder duties when I came in, defending HO  from the paparazziimage. Or perhaps on Guinness no 2image. I had to "rush" off to Glasgow, so didn't hang around for long ... in fact I may as well have loitered since I ended up trapped in traffic for 2 hours trying to get home (5 miles!) ...  apparently the roads had been closed for some sort of running race. Regarding conditions, PRF had it on the nail ... it was hot and there was nowhere to hide from the sun, but it was just a case of remembering that during the first half (two big hills) and making some adjustments. I'd woken up with a runny nose and a scratchy throat but didn't feel this would affect the legs. I was pretty desperate for a drink from the off and was already looking forward to the first water station when the gun went. I decided by the time I got to the first hill at 3 miles that I was going to ignore the watch, forget about 1:33:xx  and run this one to feel. It paid dividends as I literally did not get passed by anyone from at least 9 miles onwards (possibly earlier, but that's when I started taking note). I passed many familiar runners in those last few miles who I had seen earlier on, who were now running at a significantly slower pace. Support on the route was fantastic and an enjoyable morning out. 1:34:41. I was certainly knackered at the end but I have recovered really well and have no DOMS ... and only 85% maxHR, so perhaps I was being too cautious?

    Stats (pace, average bpm/ max bpm)

    1,  7:17, 139/149 - flat, very congested
    2,  7:11, 148/151 - flat
    3,  7:24, 149/153 -flat, then sharp up
    4,  7:52, 148/154 - up and up
    5,  7:09, 145/150 - down
    6,  7:35, 143/148 - down then up
    7,  7:40, 143/147 - up then flat
    8,  7:09, 142/147 - flat then down
    9,  7:09, 142/147 - down
    10, 7:12, 144/147 - flat
    11, 7:14, 146/150- flat
    12, 7:11, 151/?- flat
    13  7:11, 151/161- flat

    I now have 5 weeks to become an "Olympic distance" triathlete!image

  • WelshpoppyWelshpoppy ✭✭✭

    Some good racing in the heat well done DT,Dr Dan,PRF,iower


    Dan: what was your time in the end? maybe my eyes have missed it?

    WJH: Glad you got it all sorted one less thing to worry about.

    Things have been going great guns for me then.......this morning same knee but inner edge knee pain I noticed it niggly last few days but this morning it said no to running will rest it and see if it clears up no idea why.So instead of feeling sorry went out and walked 7 miles and will do 5 miles later it does hurt the knee and I need my fitness levels kept up.

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Well done to Dan and DT for your races - sounds like pretty tough conditions. My work colleague ran the Hackney HM on Sunday and said that it was a struggle in the heat there too.

    I on the other hand was enjoying a picnic in the shade of a tree in the park with my wife and daughter on Sunday afternoon followed by a couple of drinks outside the cricket club watching the Sunday XI's game - not a bad life really image

    WP - hope the injury is nothing more than a niggle that will pass soon enough.

    Foot felt ok during Friday's run and also throughout cricket on Saturday, but unfortunately during cricket I developed a sharp pain in the very bottom of the quad just where it joins the knee cap which left me limping around for the rest of the weekend. It was most painful when the knee/leg was fully locked out. It feels ok now doing normal walking etc, but haven't tried anything more strenuous yet. It feels like one thing then the other at the moment injury wise .....

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Andrew ... I tend to ignore any pains and aches unless they're running induced, or else seem to get worse when running. I think of it as part of getting older! image

    WP - the time was 1:34:41 ... so my "C Target". It's more than a minute faster than I've managed there before but I think 1:33:xx was possible on the course on a cooler day. Good luck with the walking strategy.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    Well done, Dan! I think it may well have been worth quite a bit quicker on a more suitable day.

    Day 647 here...and suspect I am about to get very wet, in contrast to yesterday when I got very hot! At least the wind appears to have dropped.

    I have constant aches and pains, and more now that I am getting ancient. They just have to be managed! 

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • ioweriower ✭✭✭

    Managed a steady 5k yesterday, seriously sore quads still, going for a ride tomorrow which will hopefully help!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Quiet in here??

    Been ticking over here with son small runs. Went for a long one at 5pm last night but stopped at 11 miles as it was boiling.

    Not feeling great either with some form of respiratory infection. No cold symptoms but sore and hoarse throat and general fatigue.

    Off for an easy six miler lunchtime.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Well done DT. Strange, I have the exact same throat ... started on Leeds HM race morning but hasn't got any worse. I haven't run since Sunday ... am having the whole week off, even though I actually think I recovered very quickly (but not worth the risk). I've done 4 days of bike commuting and will do a longer bike ride on Sunday ... then I'm going to repeat the last 4 weeks of the FIRST HM schedule in preparation for the triathlon (plus bike and swim of course!). I think I will need to extend my bike commutes to get the mileage in, so may yet compromise on the running. Oh, and I've just order a wet suit, so some Open Water swimming will need to take place sooner rather than later!

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Quiet here - been struggling with injury and only run 8 miles in May so far image

  • parkrunfanparkrunfan ✭✭✭

    Alehouse - Is that 647 consecutive days? If so, that would appear to be one of the best things to focus on for building strength and consistency. It never did Ron any harm with his 17000+ run day and even HO is on a current streak of 1100+.

    Dr Dan - Interesting that you had the same thoughts about Leeds last week. It was a day for sensible pacing and you got it right. Somehow we got a pic featured in Athletics Weekly of me and HO passing in front of the town hall just before the finish. Standards have clearly fallen at AW these daysimage

    Had a relaxed even paced run around the Latvian capital this morning. As last week we decided to run together with no real interest in times as such. Riga marathon was being used to try to bag Olympic qualifying times for a few of the elites so it was a pretty tasty field. However, with 10k to go we were told we were 42nd male and 10th female so we decided to crack on a bit and by the end had clawed up to 33rd and 8th in a time of 2:55:06. A very enjoyable morning in the former 3rd biggest city in Russia.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    Was trying to spot some Riga results just as you were reporting them PRF! Hope the weekend was good...although I couldn't see a parkrun in there!

    May have a bit of difficulty keeping the streak going after Thursday: op on nose might get in the way.

    Masters relays at Sutton Coldfield for me on Saturday: reasonable run given the first race since October. 3 miles of undulations: 20:56, and most people said it matches 5k times. Happy with that if it is correct. Best bit of the day was seeing my L65 team come second with the "girl" I coach running the second fastest time. Double silver!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    PRF - well done on the exotic racing!

    Alehouse - a nice lumpy 3 miler there, and well done on the coaching too.

    Well, I had a fat week - no running, no swimming and a few too many calories - and I managed to skip Sunday's bike ride too (at least I biked to work last week). I'll try to re-group this week ... I''l do a  get-back-to-it jog today and then it's the John Carr 5K race #3 on Wednesday which should wake up the system.

  • I’ve not posted or even looked at the site for a while and coincidentally I log on to see you were at Sutton Coldfield on Saturday Alehouse. I was there and I hope you are right about it reflecting what you would run on a flat 5k, a few of us made similar comments, I ran 16:12 and would snap your hands off for that over 5k! 
    I ran 1st leg for Richmond and Zetland Harriers, I changed clubs last October, does that mean I should change my forum name?.... Certainly my profile picture. Anyway, shame I didn’t spot you, we met once, so would hope I would recognise you had I seen you. It was a great event, really enjoyable and congrats on your own run and in particular your two silvers.....quite an appropriate colour for Masters athletes. 

    prf, as per bookface, hope those Russian Gangsters weren’t too rough with you? image

    Dr Dan, prf and myself did the 1st John Carr race two weeks ago, I understand the course is different to previous years. It's an out and back on the waterworks road by the new Appley Bridge train station now. Not flat but pretty quick.

    Anyway, good to see a few of the old faces still posting and some newer ones.

  • WelshpoppyWelshpoppy ✭✭✭

    I also have not post last week no running but walked 12 miles a day apart from Sunday when I felt poorly.But today 6 miles I can feel a niggle in knee so going to swap over shoes and see how that feels tomorrow as I rested knee last week and should be okay.


    Andrew; It seems May has been a bad month for mileage at the moment I hope your injury is getting better?

    Thirsk Runner: I would change your name and photo nice time for 5k well done;-)

    Live each day as if it was your last  give it all you have to reap the rewards.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    Good to see you, TR...although I never got the hang of TR as there was too much confusion with our friend TRYD might be a better name! Sorry I didn't see you on Saturday but we departed before your race. 

    Looking at Sutton Park, I suspect that the quicker runners, including yourself, will be a little slower over 5k, say 15 seconds, compared to runners around and over the 20 minute mark: quite simply the hills have little impact on the faster runners whereas for the slower runners they do, if that makes sense! Stick around on here, and hope to hear of some good times this summer. Sale Sizzlers?

    Can't remember whether I mentioned it but I have a nose op on Thursday, so whether I can keep the streak going or not is questionable. Think today was number 653. Almost all of it easy running, and a loss of about 20 lbs. However looking at the photos from Saturday there is a little way to go on that front!!

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Alehouse, not so sure about racing in the North West again after my Trafford 10k PB was wiped out with the measurement shenanigans image
    I have some 5ks line up this summer, one in Redcar another in York that hasn’t been announced yet but usually happens in August and I might try to get a few of us over for one of those Podium 5ks + a couple of track 5,000s in the mix as well. So probably a no to a Sale Sizzler, are they midweek races?

    As for comparing Saturdays performance with a flat 5k, I would say you are probably right that its less of a straight swap the faster you are. I recently ran 16:33 on a quick but not flat 5k, thought I had another 10 seconds or maybe 15 to come off that on current fitness on a pan flat course, so it kind of fits. Reckon I can target a 16:15-16:20 soon.
    Hadn’t realised you were on a long streak, well done on that and good luck with the nose op. Nothing serious I hope?

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    I understand the Sale Sizzlers haven't been affected by the measurement issue, although the organiser has taken the precaution of having the course re-measured, I understand. Thursday nights, alternate weeks starting 30th June:

    Nose op: to cut a long story short was being investigated to see why I kept getting chest infections or other asthma related issues and was directed to an ENT consultant. He said none of the nasal sprays were working as they were hitting a brick wall where my nose is broken inside! Didn't really believe him so got a second opinion which was almost word for word the same as the first. Can't breathe through my nose or smell, and the rebuilding job may help with these.  

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Well done (again) on the Mara exploits, prf.

    Hope the op goes well, Alehouse and the streak continues.

    Good to see you posting, TR. Hopefully you'll stick about.

    Take it easy WP and Andrew. I'm have random knee and hip aches and I think it might be my new runners. Nothing major, just annoying.

    I tried my first steady session post London. Just a basic 5 @ mp. I was expecting a bit of hard work, which I what my first few sessions were like in the Autumn after my four weeks down time but it was pretty straightforward. 6.52 for 159hr so really right where i was pre taper. Hopefully with some structure and consistency next few months I can kick on.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Good luck with the nose op Alehouse.

    Good to see you here TR (agree that you should return to your original YD image).

    WP/Andrew - take care.

    Good return to running DT ... bodes well for the next campaign!

    I did 4.6 miles on Monday with 2 x 400m intervals just to wake the legs up again after 8 days of no running. Meanwhile the usual bike commuting (which has been improving ... managing to get up hills much better these days) and I did 64 lengths of non-stop front crawl yesterday which also went well. John Carr 5K race tonight once I cycle home ... might cycle to the race as well as it's only an easy 3 miles from home (big hills on the return route though image).

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    TR - nice to hear from you. Glad all is well.

    WP - hope your injury is nothing serious.

    May continues to be a disaster running wise here. 10.5 miles in the month so far, although the knee has felt better this week, I've just not had a chance to get out since Friday. Hoping to get a few short runs in this week and then try to start afresh next week.

  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭

    TR - You not doing the Sunderland 5K? Probably as fast a course as you'll get. This is also a good one making a return this year


  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Crikey ... MrV, prf, TR/YD ... feels a bit like The Middle Ground.image

  • Where’s Curly, Kelly, Duck, Ratzer, BR and Hilly?!!!
    As for name change, maybe I could go back to YD or maybe something to represent my new club R&ZH? Although I do still live in Thirsk, so do most of my running there. Decisions decisions........

    Alehouse – sounds dramatic, but at least the experts agree. Has to give you confidence!
    The Sale Sizzlers have piqued my interest…….

    DT19 – if you are running 6:52s as Mara pace it sounds like you have come on since I last posted.

    Mr V – I saw that Gateshead race listed and I was interested but I am on holiday that night. Sunderland 5k is an option, I did the Northern 12 Stage on part of that course earlier this year. I think it might clash with a track league event, I’ll check.
    EDIT- just checked, it's on the 13th but I have a potential track 5,000m on the 12th at the new track in Middlesbrough. I'll decide closer as to which a fancy more.

    Likewise AndrewD – hope the knee knack isn’t serious.

    Good luck at the John Carr tonight Dr Dan. The course has changed btw, it’s an out and back now. Still quick but not as quick as it was, I’m led to believe.

    I did a mile race last night, 4:59. Nice to break 5 minutes but a recent 4:32 1500m suggested I should’ve been quicker. It was windy and my legs were knackered. I feel very tired now, I have raced quite a bit the last few weeks, last night was a race too far I think. Still no complaints, 2016 has been a good year so far.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    image Yep, the old course was net downhill, especially the last 1K, which made it unrealistically quick. If it's still quicker than Woodhouse Moor parkrun, then I should have a chance to break 20 minutes ... although I've not really set myself up for a fast one.

    Nice sub 5 mile!image

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