Shades Marathon Training



  • Khani, probably be more about not having breakfast rather than hydration unless you started dehydrated?  I find having a breakfast about 3-4 hours before the race works for me, at the race I'll prob go for a no 2 a couple of times before the race.  In 22 marathons/ ultras I've only had an unwanted stop on two occasions.

    Been selected for volunteering at London Marathon again, great day out by the Isle Of Dogs (mile 17).
  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭
    Gratz on volunteering selection - isn't mile 17 where a bunch of runners world / pirates people hang out! :)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Khani, we're all different and I know Cal doesn't usually have breakie but I couldn't do that long a run without food - personally I can't see how a few gels would replace a proper breakfast.  I occasionally may go for a 6-8ish miler without breakfast, but anything longer than that I'd need to eat beforehand.  I just eat a couple of hours before going out for a long run.

    I had a good day in terms of decorating and that's it now for 10-days or so :)    Afterwards I went over to the Trotters for what I think is a tough session.  It was a 1-mile time trial, followed by 3min, 6min, 6min, 3min session (with 1-min recovery).

    I did the mile in 5:59 and then the efforts from Strava were 0.43miles (6:56min/miles), 0.88miles (6:47min/miles), 0.9miles (6:36min/miles) and 0.46miles (6:29min/miles).  Pretty pleased with that really as the consistency was there over a hard effort.
    Ian - I guess Manchester date might also depend on the football too.  I'm sure London's date makes no difference to Manchester as they don't compete against each other.

    Robert - yes, I often use my retired running shoes as casual wear for a while but some of the colours now means they go straight to recycling.  

    You did a great job with the pacing, some of the pacers have no consideration for the runners and go out too fast not taking into consideration that for a runner trying to achieve a PB going out significantly faster in the early stages will ruin their chances.   

    Khanivore - what you should have been practising on your long runs is getting the pre race breakfast sorted. You don't do enough running to run your long runs fasted and on race day it will seriously affect your race.  You need to get into a routine of eating a good high carb breakfast to fuel your long runs and races. 

    I run every day before breakfast but I'm used to it, but for a long run I will have breakfast and for a marathon or ultra I will eat as much as I can on race morning.   
  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    You are completely right - for this long run I definitely should have tried eating :(

    Almost every training run I’ve ever done (including the 22 and 20 mile runs the last couple of weeks) have been without food. The primary reason is that I can’t get up early enough to eat, wait a while, and then run. I’ve got in to the bad habit of always doing that.

    I’ll try eating during taper - next week I’m on holiday so I’ll be running after huge buffet breakfasts lol
    Khanivore - you need to get up early enough to eat.   For a long run I usually eat 30-60 mins before as I'm not running at race pace.   But for a race 3 hours is usually the normal for a marathon.

    Lots of runners use Imodium for their marathon races, you could just carry with you a fast acting tablet just in case.

    You might want to be careful with what you eat for the last couple of days before the marathon 
  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭
    not keen on Imodium but definitely will try the rest. Thx shades! :)
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Khani - Definately need to experiment to find out what works for you. I don't eat before running, unless it's over 18 miles, but I do make sure I'm hydrated as that makes a massive difference too.
    8 miles with strides Wednesday and 7 miles today.
    Khanivore - I meant just have an Imodium tablet with you, just in case you need it.  

    Now don't eat too much when you're on holiday, you'll only regret it ;)
  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭
    haha @SHADES I believe you are already familiar with my complete lack of self control when it comes to kebabs and cakes :)
    Khanivore said:
    haha @SHADES I believe you are already familiar with my complete lack of self control when it comes to kebabs and cakes :)
    Have a lovely holiday.   If you eat too much get out and run a few more miles to burn it off.

    Rest day for me today, race tomorrow.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    I'm in the must eat before a run boat,unless its only a few miles,any more than 8 and I'm struggling.
    Nice 6 in the warm after work last night,nice running weather.
    Getting to the time of thinking about pacing and secin guessing myself as usual.GC was my first negative split marathon,normally I'm positive by a few mins,so for Manchester do I go out at 3:08 pace and see if I can hold it or go out slightly faster? 
    Ian - re pace for Manchester entirely up to you.    You had a great run and PB and a negative split but although there's a lot of talk about negative splits or even paced running being the best, they're not for everyone .   So you have to do what suits you and how you feel on the day and run the race in the way that you choose is best for you.

    I would always advise a runner if they've done a recent half and run well in that race then to go out at the pace predicted from that race.  So for you that would be 3 hour pace, :o  but not a second faster per mile and only if that pace felt comfortable.  

    I know I'm always going on about runners setting off too fast in the first half but being too conservative in the first half can waste time too and not time that can be made up in the 2nd half. 

  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Good luck Shades and have a nice time, Khani.
    4 miles easy today. Beautiful weather - would have liked to stay out longer but I'm being sensible. Tapers suck.
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Khani, when I USED to run I'd never eat before training runs, even the long ones, however, I always eat before races - oats or something a couple of hours before and a banana just before starting. During the race I'd take sports sweets on after about 10k. Normally race nerves help you go to the loo before as well so i shouldn't worry about that too much either!

    Ian, I'd be tempted to see if I could hang on to that faster pace.. I find it easier to grimly hang on to a pace in the later kms than trying to find the energy to go any faster!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Mama-I tend to be a hanger oner aswell,I find it hard to increase speed,maybe because I never practise it in training.
    Shades-Any news on the pickle theory?getting myself some for the race as it seemed to help me in GC.
    I don't think I'm any fitter than GC,and have only fitted a couple of 20's in but hopefully have done enough to maintain fitness,and the flatter course and 10° lower temp may be enough to get me a few minutes.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Tough one Ian. How about go out at a pace that secures GFA, and then see how you feel at 20ish?

    Absolute nightmare journey to Dover last night. Got to the hotel at 2:30am as there was a massive diversion around a part of the A303. Sat Nav didn’t warn us and the diversion signage was appalling, which didn’t help our moods.  We were booked on the 8am ferry, which is 5mins from the hotel, but we’ve decided to get the 10am instead.  It’s just a Travelodge again but it was only £ £20 for the hound.

    I didn’t run yesterday as had a slight wheeziness in my chest. I get this from time to time (pollen?), and have an inhaler which does the trick. But I took a rest day in the end, although my legs are now very tight from the long drive yesterday so I’m not feeling rested!
    Ian - no news on the vinegar yet.   She wasn't at circuits this week and she hadn't had a chance to look up the data when I asked her earlier.   She did say that swilling your mouth with a sports drink and then spitting it out has evidence of its success, she's going to try it herself as she's diabetic so can't use sports drinks and she's planning a longish cycle ride.

    I did tell her you used the vinegar at GC and it seemed to help and she did say that there's a possibility it might work more quickly the next time as you've already shocked your brain once with a swig of vinegar and you might get a quicker reaction.

    mamafox - how does the foot feel after the injection?

    Big G - oh that sounds like an awful journey, bloody A303 is awful at times.   You can't even blame Brexit! :D 

    You have plenty time to recover before Rotterdam.

    I'm driving to Wales today, novelty will be going over the Severn Bridge FOC for the first time.   But I'm going to leave fairly early as the M4 into Wales on a Friday is so slow and want to try and get there before the rush hour crowd leave Bristol.   £28 Travelodge for me and sit in chip shop 2 mins walk from hotel :)  
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I hope it works quicker as it's not a nice taste,but worth it if it works again.
    Have a good trip and race tomorrow,just seen the race village and end has moved to Man Utd football ground rather than the cricket,not much in it but glad I seen it as I don't want any panic on race morning.Think I've changed my mind 3 times this morning on pacing,going to be a long week  :#
    Ian - I'm sure you'll change your mind many times before race day.   So much depends on how confident you feel at the time.   This situation is when running to heartrate can be a bonus as choosing a heartrate then leaves the pace to be whatever it will be.

    I'm all packed so signing off for now.
  • KhanivoreKhanivore ✭✭✭
    @Ian5 I like the idea of going at GFA pace and seeing how you feel as you go through the race. 

    @SHADES I really like the idea of running to heart rate and sod the pace. How do I pick a heart rate for my easy, tempo and race paces? On my long runs (18+) 150 seems sustainable, 155 is also doable but gets harder.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Bog G-Hope the rest of your journey is better.Agree the idea of GFA and go from there is sensible,only thing is we don't know what the cut off will be,last year everyone got in but can't guarantee it will be the same this year.
    Khanivore - I wouldn't suggest racing to heart rate unless you've trained for a long period with a heart rate monitor.  You'd also need a monitor with a chest strap as wrist sensors are unreliable.  Maybe after your marathon, but you didn't enjoy it the last time you tried, you're maybe a little too impatient for that method of training.😉

    Ian - don't worry about the 3k limit on GFA now, just target the GFA time as it is.  You know how good you are at chipping away at those PB's as I think once you've got a GFA time in the bag you'll go on to improve on it, but it may not be required.

    Have had my fish and chips, not as good as usual but I was hungry so was OK . Journey was delayed, 30 mins for accident on M5 and then the tortuous westbound M4 which the travel news commentator referred to as the ''usual fun Friday on the M4". 😬
    But weather was perfect on the drive up, 16 degrees, I'm hoping it will be near that tomorrow for my race.
  • Ian, last year I set myself a target of 3.40 and set off just inside that pace, knowing that i'd either fade, or hold on.  I didn't believe I'd get faster which I ended up doing (3.32.29) Unsure if you've done Manchester but other than the half way point in altrinham where there is a small climb over the rail bridge (if using the same course) its flat and fast, loads of long straight roads to maintain and build speed.  Depends how confident you are on the day as to how fast you set off.  

    Shades hope you have a good journey and race.

    Big G thats a good speed session the other eve, hope the wheezing calms down! Touch wood not suffered with hay fever this year but many in the court are.

    MF hope the injection werent too painful.  Also other than pain relief are there any benefits/ chance that it won't come back after?

    Considering another pacing role, at a local 10k race, I have considered volunteering for them in the past too, as they provide a free race entry for one of their races plus £20, I'm surprised that they pay that much as they are reasonably priced events and well organised. 

    Still got another week at court, seems weird that it will all be over and then go back to normal day job!  I've kinda enjoyed it!

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Good luck, Shades.

    Robert, yeah, allergies can knock people right out. I don’t tend to be too bad but just on occasion I need a few days of inhalers. With those, I can still function pretty much normally though whereas I know others really struggle :(

    Arrived on the outskirts of Amsterdam (Amstelveen) yesterday and I went for a short run this morning around a nearby park (4.5 miles). It was quite fresh, but it was nice to stretch the legs after a couple of days of long drives. I’ve really stiffened up - it almost feels like I’ve ran a tough marathon!!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    [email protected] today including parkrun,quite good to do parkrun with it as I wanted to let people overtake me and try to keep to my pace and not worry about it and it worked ok,across the 6 miles I was 5 secs quicker than target so happy with it,then 2.5 miles home.Just going to do easy runs now this week as I still have a slight calf niggle and want it to go.
  • Big G hope the run does the trick.

    Ian well done on not racing it's easy to get carried away at parkrun, even when I pop my parkrun course in a long run I find my pace increasing!

    Westmill Parkrun arrived early for car park marshal, realised I left Roadhawks on after walking the dog, meant to put trail shoes on.  1st time ever to wear a cushioned shoe when running.  It was bone dry other than a bit of dew that hadn't been burned off so not too bad.  Started easy again and ran progressively 8.58,8.45 and 8.10 and took someone I know from Fairlands Valley Challenge down in a sprint finish on the line. 

    Elles doing a sponsored swim this afternoon (1500m) so going to support her.  The out for my aunt and uncles 50th anniversary tonight!  Hope you're having the weather we have here!!!
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Ian's done Manchester, Rob, although he didn't have a good time from what I remember. (Just watch out for the bloody cones, Ian!)
    That's a good time for Westmill.
    Big G/Shades - good luck!

    Today I did my first ever inaugural parkrun - this one being Sunny Hill in North London (it's right next to the M1). It was sunny, and by god it was hilly. I think it may now be the hilliest parkrun in London. My time (officially 27:21) was almost three minutes slower than the PB I got last week. I was feeling fine, it was just the combination of steep ups and equally steep downs (I am not confident on downhills so I take them slowly). But I enjoyed the event and the views from the top were grand.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-It was the stupid woman in front of me who fell over a cone,and I fell over her trying to stop her falling but Mr Chivalrous is gone these days,I've done Manchester twice before and not been below 4:24 yet so hoping for some serious improvement.Just checked and my 6 miles were a little quicker than I thought,came out at 3:06 pace but more downhill than up so maybe 3:07 flat pace,but felt as though I was well within myself,whether I feel like that with another 20 miles to go is another matter.
  • Cal well done on a new parkrun, Westmill has changed to their summer course, it’s not as nice as you dont take in the three lakes (just 2) due to fishermen. There is a horrible camber you have to run twice (when running top speed I don’t have an issue with this) The course is also only 3 miles which doesn’t bother me as it’s only parkrun however the chance of some decent weather, the scenery and a splendid breakfast at the three lakes restaurant makes up for it!
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